Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then Santa Clause exists, but we just haven't discovered him. 🙄
Santa could exist and be both a person and a symbol for happiness/spiritual contentment. A better example would be Justice and justice. We don't have to choose between the statue with the scales and the idea of law.
As sappy as it sounds (and perhaps disappointing to you) this is a case in which it is very much possible for both sides to be right. Besides, is anyone telling you to believe Hell is a real place? If not there's no reason to care unless you object to free thought.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Santa could exist and be both a person and a symbol for happiness/spiritual contentment. A better example would be Justice and justice. We don't have to choose between the statue with the scales and the idea of law.As sappy as it sounds (and perhaps disappointing to you) this is a case in which it is very much possible for both sides to be right. Besides, is anyone telling you to believe Hell is a real place? If not there's no reason to care unless you object to free thought.
That's a stretch. Just because something can exist does not mean it does.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosAnd they creat what they wish too.
Again: so? It has no real relevance to you unless you object to letting people think what they wish to.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=334020&pagenumber=6
I have not read the postings attached to this thread; but since it is labeled "Your Version of Heaven and Hell," I will make the following statement. This is my view in accordance with the Bible, not emotion:
Heaven is a real place described in the Bible. The word heaven is found 276 times in the New Testament alone. Scripture refers to three heavens. The Apostle Paul was “caught up to the third heaven," but he was prohibited from revealing what he experienced there (2 Corinthians 12:1-9).
If a third heaven exists, there must also be two other heavens. The first is most frequently referred to in the Old Testament as the "sky" or the "firmament," which appears as an arch that is spread over our earth. This is the heaven that contains clouds, the area that birds fly through. The second heaven is the interstellar space, which is the abode of supernatural angelic beings and celestial objects (Genesis 1:14-18).
The third heaven, whose location is unrevealed, is the abode of the Triune God. God's plan is to fill heaven with believers in Jesus Christ. No wonder the word heaven is interchangeable with eternal life! Jesus promised to prepare a place for true Christians in heaven (John 14:2). Heaven is also the destination of Old Testament saints who died trusting God's promise of the Redeemer (Ephesians 4:8). Whoever believes in Christ shall never perish but have eternal life (John 3:16).
The Apostle John was privileged to see and report on the heavenly city (Revelation 21:10-27). John witnessed that heaven possesses the "glory of God" (Revelation 21:11). This is the Shekinah glory or the presence of God. Because heaven has no night and the Lord is the light, the sun and moon are no longer needed (Revelation 22:5).
The city is filled with the brilliance of costly stones and crystal clear jasper. Heaven has 12 gates (Revelation 21:12) and 12 foundations (Revelation 21:14). The paradise of the Garden of Eden is restored: the river of the water of life flows freely and the tree of life is available once again, yielding fruit monthly with leaves that "heal the nations" (Revelation 22:1-2). However eloquent John was in his description of heaven, the reality of heaven is beyond the ability of finite man to describe (1 Corinthians 2:9). Yet it is more real than this earth, which will pass away.
Heaven is a place of "no mores." There will be no more tears, no more pain, and no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4). There will be no more separation because death will be conquered (Revelation 20:6). The best thing about heaven is the presence of our Lord and Savior. We will be face to face with the Lamb of God Who loved us and sacrificed Himself so that we can enjoy His presence for eternity, and... Hell:
Studies show that over 90% of people in the world believe in a "heaven" while less than 50% believe in an eternal hell. According to the Bible, hell is most definitely real! The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never-ending as the bliss of the righteous in Heaven. The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41), "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12), "shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49), a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24), "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Revelation 14:10,11), and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10). Jesus Himself indicates that the punishment in hell itself is everlasting - not merely the smoke and flames (Matthew 25:46).
The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God in hell. They consciously suffer shame and contempt and the assaults of an accusing conscience -- along with the fiery wrath of an offended deity -- for all of eternity. Even those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalms 76:10). Those who are in the very real hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end! Praise God that through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16,18,36).
You may have various views on the topic. That is fine; but at the end of the day, you should not let raw emotion determine what is truth. Listen to your conscience and study the Word of God objectively (amongst other religious views), not to mention prayer. And be honest. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose.
Not all truth is comforting/pleasant.
Originally posted by ushomefree
I have not read the postings attached to this thread; but since it is labeled "Your Version of Heaven and Hell," I will make the following statement. This is my view in accordance with the Bible, not emotion:[b]Heaven
is a real place described in the Bible. The word heaven is found 276 times in the New Testament alone. Scripture refers to three heavens. The Apostle Paul was “caught up to the third heaven," but he was prohibited from revealing what he experienced there (2 Corinthians 12:1-9).If a third heaven exists, there must also be two other heavens. The first is most frequently referred to in the Old Testament as the "sky" or the "firmament," which appears as an arch that is spread over our earth. This is the heaven that contains clouds, the area that birds fly through. The second heaven is the interstellar space, which is the abode of supernatural angelic beings and celestial objects (Genesis 1:14-18).
The third heaven, whose location is unrevealed, is the abode of the Triune God. God's plan is to fill heaven with believers in Jesus Christ. No wonder the word heaven is interchangeable with eternal life! Jesus promised to prepare a place for true Christians in heaven (John 14:2). Heaven is also the destination of Old Testament saints who died trusting God's promise of the Redeemer (Ephesians 4:8). Whoever believes in Christ shall never perish but have eternal life (John 3:16).
The Apostle John was privileged to see and report on the heavenly city (Revelation 21:10-27). John witnessed that heaven possesses the "glory of God" (Revelation 21:11). This is the Shekinah glory or the presence of God. Because heaven has no night and the Lord is the light, the sun and moon are no longer needed (Revelation 22:5).
The city is filled with the brilliance of costly stones and crystal clear jasper. Heaven has 12 gates (Revelation 21:12) and 12 foundations (Revelation 21:14). The paradise of the Garden of Eden is restored: the river of the water of life flows freely and the tree of life is available once again, yielding fruit monthly with leaves that "heal the nations" (Revelation 22:1-2). However eloquent John was in his description of heaven, the reality of heaven is beyond the ability of finite man to describe (1 Corinthians 2:9). Yet it is more real than this earth, which will pass away.
Heaven is a place of "no mores." There will be no more tears, no more pain, and no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4). There will be no more separation because death will be conquered (Revelation 20:6). The best thing about heaven is the presence of our Lord and Savior. We will be face to face with the Lamb of God Who loved us and sacrificed Himself so that we can enjoy His presence for eternity, and... Hell:
Studies show that over 90% of people in the world believe in a "heaven" while less than 50% believe in an eternal hell. According to the Bible, hell is most definitely real! The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never-ending as the bliss of the righteous in Heaven. The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matthew 25:41), "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12), "shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49), a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24), "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Revelation 14:10,11), and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Revelation 20:10). Jesus Himself indicates that the punishment in hell itself is everlasting - not merely the smoke and flames (Matthew 25:46).
The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God in hell. They consciously suffer shame and contempt and the assaults of an accusing conscience -- along with the fiery wrath of an offended deity -- for all of eternity. Even those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalms 76:10). Those who are in the very real hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end! Praise God that through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16,18,36).
You may have various views on the topic. That is fine; but at the end of the day, you should not let raw emotion determine what is truth. Listen to your conscience and study the Word of God objectively (amongst other religious views), not to mention prayer. And be honest. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose.
Not all truth is comforting/pleasant.[/B]
The bible is just a book. Just because it is in the bible does not mean it is real.
this world, if it is allowed to be. feeling alive, finding out more about your self, having a true sense of connection, having bliss, but most of all, having pure love and pure sincere selflessness, and being loved in return, truly, completely. and having beauty, {and since there is no limit to it, i cudnt really tell you a set level} and being able to FEAL, more so than we usually do, a lot more. well, as a sensation or a host of sensations, its hard to describe, but thats my version. although i cant really feal it anymore, and its gone forever, but it does exist. and no REAL heavens, compare.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
this world, if it is allowed to be. feeling alive, finding out more about your self, having a true sense of connection, having bliss, but most of all, having pure love and pure sincere selflessness, and being loved in return, truly, completely. and having beauty, {and since there is no limit to it, i cudnt really tell you a set level} and being able to FEAL, more so than we usually do, a lot more. well, as a sensation or a host of sensations, its hard to describe, but thats my version. although i cant really feal it anymore, and its gone forever, but it does exist. and no REAL heavens, compare.
It can return, but heaven is still one of the lower worlds. There are far greater worlds then heaven.
no it cant. and i wasnt really describing heaven, its just that heaven, to most people means the HIGHEST form of existance there is, and YOUR version, i guess adds even more flexibility. note the words "selfless" in my post "selfless love" is a good way to describe my version of the highest plane of existance. and ofcourse having awarenes/conciousness/existance enough to emenate that from.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
no it cant. and i wasnt really describing heaven, its just that heaven, to most people means the HIGHEST form of existance there is, and YOUR version, i guess adds even more flexibility. note the words "selfless" in my post "selfless love" is a good way to describe my version of the highest plane of existance. and ofcourse having awarenes/conciousness/existance enough to emenate that from.
We simple disagree on rather you can once again experience what you once did. I look forward to the time when you will pm me and tell me I was right, because we will both be happy then. 😉
As far as the highest world; that would be Buddhahood. 😎
^you can not experience what doesnt exist anymore. certain conditions are preset for that, kinda like a being which was designed without the ability to be selfless can never expirience buddha hood. its just that. cant be made sense of, it just is.
and yea, i always did describe my version of heaven{as i have put it here} as nirvana. ofcourse, i was real young back then, practically a kid. shaky, do u think u can reach buddha hood in this life of ur{i mean the life YOU are currently living}, or will it take a couple more rebirth for you to get there ? { 😛 just asking}
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^you can not experience what doesnt exist anymore. certain conditions are preset for that, kinda like a being which was designed without the ability to be selfless can never expirience buddha hood. its just that. cant be made sense of, it just is.and yea, i always did describe my version of heaven{as i have put it here} as nirvana. ofcourse, i was real young back then, practically a kid. shaky, do u think u can reach buddha hood in this life of ur{i mean the life YOU are currently living}, or will it take a couple more rebirth for you to get there ? { 😛 just asking}
Buddhahood is not something to be reached; it is something to realize. To realize your Buddhahood requires a human revolution.