SW controls causality itself, as Xavier said in Excalibur. That means anything that falls in the realm of possibility (which is EVERYTHING) falls under the control of Wanda. Her power reached throughout the universe, altering past and present. As a side effect of her power, she inadvertently tore open a hole between realities, and her power leaked through it, caused all kinds of destruction that collapsed countless universes (read the HoM issues of Uncanny X-men for details). The hole needed to be repaired or Wanda would have accidentally destroyed the multiverse - a greater feat of power than had ever been seen in the Marvel Universe.
GalacticStorm will probably come in and tell you some bullshit about chaos waves. Don't listen to him. Nobody does. Right, Whirly?
😄
Originally posted by Mider
be nice anyway GS said PF is megaversal so Wanda cant be above the PF.
Depends on what you mean by "above". The Phoenix Force is a form of energy that animates life. It's the sum total of all current and potential lifeforce. It's nothing that you can fight per se, anymore so than you can fight carbon or oxygen. It just...is. Everything that exists is comprised of the Phoenix Force, being the energy of life. That would include Scarlet Witch. In that sense, she falls under the jurisdiction of the Phoenix Force.
That said, while the Phoenix Force has a consciousness that spans the multiverse, it can't act on the physical plane in any one universe without a host. But as soon as it takes a host, it takes on all the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of that host. The power level varies based on how strong its connection is to the Force, how much power it's granted, and how good it is with that power. That's why you can see a Phoenix beat Galactus one issue and lose to Thor the next.
A host can be manipulated, weakened, defeated, even destroyed. It has no effect on the Phoenix Force as a whole, so destroying the host won't destroy the Force. Jean Grey has a special relationship with the Force, but she still doesn't use the full might of the Phoenix Force...the more power you use, the greater your odds of being consumed. As such, she generally puts limits on her power and doesn't go beyond that limit.
All that said, I put Wanda and her feats above any Phoenix host. Phoenix hosts tend to average at around herald level, and only a few times have gotten to Galactus level.
Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Wanda>Jean Grey
No. Jean is Phoenix.
Originally posted by demigawd
The hole needed to be repaired or Wanda would have accidentally destroyed the multiverse - a greater feat of power than had ever been seen in the Marvel Universe.
How can be that greatest feat of power, while even Upper cosmic level beings didn't get involve. So they weren't worried about. This doesn't come close to THOTU (everyone got scared the shit out of them) or Phoenix (who actully stopped the MKryan Crystal).
I choose IG over Wanda, since LT himself had to come and no one worried about Wanda.
Originally posted by Xplosive
No. Jean is Phoenix.
Lotta good that did her against Magneto, Xorneto, Mastermind, lasers, Thor, Beyonder, and everybody else who owned her.
How can be that greatest feat of power, while even Upper cosmic level beings didn't get involve. So they weren't worried about. This doesn't come close to THOTU (everyone got scared the shit out of them) or Phoenix (who actully stopped the MKryan Crystal).
I choose IG over Wanda, since LT himself had to come and no one worried about Wanda.
Because Wanda wasn't trying to destroy the multiverse. She accidentally tore a hole in reality that needed a repair. You don't need cosmics to fix it. But that demonstrates that Wanda has the ability to break open the walls between realities and bring the whole thing crashing down...if she wanted to.
She didn't. So no harm done. But all the destruction she accidentally caused across the multiverse was pretty vicious - moreso than anything IG HOTU or Phoenix did.
Originally posted by demigawd
Lotta good that did her against Magneto, Xorneto, Mastermind, lasers, Thor, Beyonder, and everybody else who owned her.
I see you give those (literally insects against her in power level) beyond Phoenix, wow, Demigawd. But you know what, even you don't take that seriously. Becuase you know they are nothing to Phoenix. This is Phoenix.
Originally posted by demigawd
Because Wanda wasn't trying to destroy the multiverse. She accidentally tore a hole in reality that needed a repair. You don't need cosmics to fix it. But that demonstrates that Wanda has the ability to break open the walls between realities and bring the whole thing crashing down...if she wanted to.She didn't. So no harm done. But all the destruction she accidentally caused across the multiverse was pretty vicious - moreso than anything IG HOTU or Phoenix did.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Everyone knows (even those whod doesn't admitt, but knows who Phoenix is) that Phoenix goes far beyond Wanda (no matter what Wanda shows), Phoenix goes far beyond her.
Originally posted by Xplosive
I see you give those (literally insects against her in power level) beyond Phoenix, wow, Demigawd. But you know what, even you don't take that seriously. Becuase you know they are nothing to Phoenix. This is Phoenix.
I named them because they're people who already beat Phoenix, either as Jean or as Rachel. They're insects to her? heh...she must be allergic to insect bites...
Yeah, yeah, right.
Everyone knows (even those whod doesn't admitt, but knows who Phoenix is) that Phoenix goes far beyond Wanda (no matter what Wanda shows), Phoenix goes far beyond her.
haha, you basically said, "I don't care about mere FEATS. No matter how much more powerful you've proven Wanda's feats to be over Jean's, Jean will always be beyond her anyway. Why? Because she just IS. So there!".
Well, I guess that settles that, huh? 😕
Originally posted by demigawd
I named them because they're people who already beat Phoenix, either as Jean or as Rachel. They're insects to her? heh...she must be allergic to insect bites...
It doesn't matter, because you know they are nothing to her and that is what is bothering you and than you mentioned that up, but it really bothers you because you know that Magento is less than insect aganst Phoenix (he beat her, but you know his power level is litearally like nothing to Phoenix and Jean could put him out of existance like nothing).
Phoenix could easily put ouf existence the likes of Rune King Thor.
And you know Magneto and Phoenix shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentences.
Originally posted by demigawd
haha, you basically said, "I don't care about mere FEATS. No matter how much more powerful you've proven Wanda's feats to be over Jean's, Jean will always be beyond her anyway. Why? Because she just IS. So there!".Well, I guess that settles that, huh? 😕
No, because nothign Wanda showed was more powerful than Phoenix.
Originally posted by demigawd
haha, you basically said, "I don't care about mere FEATS. No matter how much more powerful you've proven Wanda's feats to be over Jean's
No, really where did you get that from. WTF. You didn't prove. The Phoenix had to come to stop MKryann Crystal, while Earth Beings stopped Wanda (so do the math). So no, I didn't sound like I thought you proved Wanda feat being over Pheonix feat. So you didn't prove anything. Phoenix holdin universe in the pale of her hand. Again far greater than anything Wanda did. About THOTU, crushing MARVEL MOST POWERUFL BEINGS EVER, EVER, all at once, like they were nothing. Immesurably gretear feat than Wanda (who was stopped by Earth beings).
Originally posted by XplosiveNo other Earth being besides Wanda Maximoff was capable of stopping Wanda Maximoff. No one stopped her, she stopped herself.
No, really where did you get that from. WTF. You didn't prove. The Phoenix had to come to stop MKryann Crystal, while Earth Beings stopped Wanda (so do the math)... Wanda (who was stopped by Earth beings).
Ah! A table!
hmm, this wanda thing has always intrigued me. demi, you claim she falls within it's juridiction, and i can understand that. but . . . is she capable of rewriting the universe/multiverse in such a way that she could refasjion it WITHOUT a pf??
hmmm . . .
even if she can't affect the multi/megaverse, i wonder if she could change a SINGLE universe to the point where no pf is needed and yet life STILL be present in that universe???