And Revan was able to kill god knows how many guards that captured a wookie
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission's help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
destroy a base filled with his enemy's
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission's help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
fight his way through a Sith base, kill a Sith apprentice
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission's help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
fight his way through Davik his base,
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission's help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
Get the point yet?
in a swoop race when he raced the thing for the first time
Untrained anakin won a pod race without ever having finished one in TPM. Is he an uber god?
defeat people in a fight after winning granted with help
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission/Zaalbar/Bastila's help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
defeat Davik and Calo Nord the second of which is the greatest bounty hunter in that sector of the galaxy.
Gameplay is not canon.
He could merely have snuck by them, and he had Carth/Mission/Zaalbar/Bastila/Canderous' help. Hell, you can play the game and just do all that with Carth. Is Carth an uber god?
He possibly killed a Mandelorian Champion in the Taris dueling ring without the force and became the Taris dueling champion
Gameplay is not canon.
fought his way through two bases of underground bastards instead of 1. Kill 2 to 5 people as a bounty hunter.
Gameplay is not canon.
And I know he had help, but just look at the help.
Gameplay is not canon.
Oh please. Don't diminish his companions. By that logic, all ANH Luke had to help him was a whiny aristocrat, a smuggler who "hardly spent his time on the ground," a wookie, and two droids. "Just look at the help!"
Pfft. And you forgot Bastila and T3.
So Ulic was able to fight without the force, so was Revan.
Gameplay is not canon.
Except Ulic was able to beat a jedi alone in lightsaber combat without any use of or sensitivity to the Force.
Every single part of your nonsensical, fanboy-flavored post was non-canon bullshit. You are a KOTOR fanboy, accept it and move on. Revan did almost none of that, save for winning the swoop race, canonically. QED.
Originally posted by tdtd
I don't need an argument now that've entered the debate, I'll just watch you make yourself look stupid making ridiculous statements such as "Fanboy" or "uninformed speculation" without merit. Why don't you learn the definitions of the things you type then come back.
Ohh! Burn oh wait, that was a stupid statement.
Originally posted by Fishy
And Revan was able to kill god knows how many guards that captured a wookie destroy a base filled with his enemy's,
God may know, but does Fishy? Prove up. They were Gamorreans anyways. ROTJ Luke could simply push them aside.
fight his way through a Sith base,
Or he could have snuck through, possibly. The point is we don't know the circumstances surrounding the event canonically, and an excess of baddies is a game mechanic, not The Truth. Therefore assuming that Revan had to beat all those people and is thus uber is as ridiculous as saying ESB Luke is God because he can fight infinite stormtroopers in the game.
kill a Sith apprentice fight his way through Davik his base,
He killed a Sith who didn't even have a lightsaber (with friends). Same deal with Bandon. We don't know how good he is from such accomplishments because they are not elaborated upon and substantiated outside of gameplay.
win a swoop race when he raced the thing for the first time,
So did TPM Annie. zOMG teh furce g0d!!!111
defeat people in a fight after winning granted with help... defeat Davik and Calo Nord the second of which is the greatest bounty hunter in that sector of the galaxy. Without the force. But thats all just whats confirmed,
More unsubstantiated feat wars...
He possibly killed a Mandelorian Champion in the Taris dueling ring without the force and became the Taris dueling champion, fought his way through two bases of underground bastards instead of 1. Kill 2 to 5 people as a bounty hunter.
Feat wars. None substantiated, none canonically shown to be true. Since the assertion that those did happen and therefore affect how powereful he is unproven, your case falls apart.
And I know he had help, but just look at the help. A republic pilot that was used to piloting according to his friends he hardly spend any time on the ground.. And he wasn't really trained with weapons either. He later on got help from a wookie and a Twi'lek, he had to use mission half of the time at least until after the Vulkar base. Storywise at least, so he had a pilot or a wookie and a 14 year old girl to help him.. Real impressive. He later on had Canderous his help in Davik his base and thats the only time the help was actually good.So Ulic was able to fight without the force, so was Revan.
All of those are validNone of those help Revan's case any. Also, Revan was ignorant of the force while brainwiped and on Taris, but he was not cut off like Ulic was. Subconsciously, one can still use the force and not know of it, such as TPM Annie.
Actually if you would use your brain, which i'm sure you can... You would know thats absolute bullshit and you didn't read my post.
Revan could not have snuck past the guards in Davik his palace, he couldn't have snuck by the Sith apprentice in the Taris Sith base, and he was seen when entering the Sith base there.. Snuck by all of that too? Bullshit, he had to have fought there.
And actually i'm not even going to reply to your post its stupid, storywise Carth would never have had the ability to do anything like that, and you clearly either haven't played Kotor in a very long damn time or you are just trying to downplay everything done in the game. Grow up.
Revan could not have snuck past the guards in Davik his palace, he couldn't have snuck by the Sith apprentice in the Taris Sith base, and he was seen when entering the Sith base there.. Snuck by all of that too? Bullshit, he had to have fought there.
You don't seem to get it, do you Fishy? Unless it is confirmed by storyline, FMV, cutscene, or the like, it did not actually happen. Gameplay elements are frequently exaggerated.
Like Wesker pointed out, in the ESB game, there is literally an infinite number of stormtroopers you can kill, there is no such thing as an infinite number of them even when the Empire was at its peak. These elements are commonly placed for entertainment purposes only and are not actually meant to be centerpieces in their accomplishments. Either back these things up with actual, confirmed facts and put them in context, or don't bother at all.
And actually i'm not even going to reply to your post its stupid, storywise Carth would never have had the ability to do anything like that, and you clearly either haven't played Kotor in a very long damn time or you are just trying to downplay everything done in the game. Grow up.
He's trying to downplay gameplay elements. The majority of what Revan has is gameplay. Most of the quotes for Revan are character quotes, therefore, all those sources (outside of saying he defeated Malak and the like, confirmed facts) are dubious.
It would be like me saying Jaden Korr went to Korriban, fought off a bunch of enemies, went to Hoth, infiltrated a Remnant base and killed several force users, went to Tatooine, defeated lightsaber-wielders on his/her very first mission, fought off reborns and bested a mutant rancor, went to Byss and beat 3 dark-side force users simultaneously simply because the game "required it."
Yes, all of those said missions were requirements, none of them were optional. Even if I were to use the optional missions, you must do at least 4 out of 5 of the missions, so there is a great possibility that they were also completed.
Like I mentioned, stick with confirmed storyline, not "well the game requires X, so it must have happened in way Y."
Originally posted by Wesker
]God may know, but does Fishy? Prove up. They were Gamorreans anyways. ROTJ Luke could simply push them aside.
No, I have no idea how many there were.. There were a few however and he did fight without the force, which is supposed to be really hard. Still not like it matters.
Or he could have snuck through, possibly. The point is we don't know the circumstances surrounding the event canonically, and an excess of baddies is a game mechanic, not The Truth. Therefore assuming that Revan had to beat all those people and is thus uber is as ridiculous as saying ESB Luke is God because he can fight infinite stormtroopers in the game.
Actually, if we would think about it logically which is apparantly allowed again we would know that Revan entered the Sith base fougth at least 1 droid and several guards in the hall. Now any half assed base would have used an alarm, he cuoldn't have snuck by that either because he had 2 other people with him. Who could have used stealth generators too I guess, but even so he would have faced at least one guard droid there and that would have made the alarms ring. The Sith below even says that he heard the commotion up stairs.
Indicating a fight, and guards would have responded to that... Logically.
He killed a Sith who didn't even have a lightsaber (with friends). Same deal with Bandon. We don't know how good he is from such accomplishments because they are not elaborated upon and substantiated outside of gameplay.
Who's arguing about Bandon now? Anyways yeah I agree it wasn't that impressive he did kill a Sith without the force though.
So did TPM Annie. zOMG teh furce g0d!!!111
Well obviously it takes skill, if any Jedi could have done that easily without experience why wouldn't OBi Wan Kenobi or QGJ have raced there? I mean it was a safer bet if it was easy for a Jedi. If he would have used the force I would have agreed it wasn't that big a deal shows talent. However in this case it serves to illustrate a point, he had great reflexes even without the force.
[QUETO]More unsubstantiated feat wars...[/QUOTE]
How so? Is there any doubt that he won the fight against Calo and Davik while the planet was bombed? Have you even played Kotor, he walks in the people start fighting they win.
Feat wars. None substantiated, none canonically shown to be true. Since the assertion that those did happen and therefore affect how powereful he is unproven, your case falls apart.
I said possibly did it, and I don't see how these are feat wars as they prove that he did things without the force.
P/QUOTE]All of those are validNone of those help Revan's case any. Also, Revan was ignorant of the force while brainwiped and on Taris, but he was not cut off like Ulic was. Subconsciously, one can still use the force and not know of it, such as TPM Annie. [/B]
Ulic was cut of from the force but he still had the force, you can't remove the force from somebody unless your Nihilus. Revan didn't know any techniques he didn't know how to use it he couldn't use it. TPM Anakin did indeed do the same, and i'm sure many others have done so as well, but the simple fact remains that doing things without the force doesn't suddenly make you a god.
Revan did plenty without the force and it doesn't make him a god, and that was IKC his argument for Ulic he defeated a Jedi without the force. Well big deal, so did Echani, so did Mandelorians... The whole Revan thing was just to show that Jedi could still be skilled even without the force. Ulic defeating one Jedi without the force doesn't give him victory.
Originally posted by Illustrious
You don't seem to get it, do you Fishy? Unless it is confirmed [b]by storyline, FMV, cutscene, or the like, it did not actually happen. Gameplay elements are frequently exaggerated.
Yes they are, which is when logic comes into play.
Davik was a crime lord, cirme lords have protection he even says he does. You disobeyed his orders and like he promised his guards tried to kill Revan, this is the only logical thing to have happened, it is canon that Revan stole the Ebon Hawk, so it is canon he went through that base. Logic would dictate that he was seen and killed at least a few guards, how many is up for graps but thats also not the point
Like Wesker pointed out, in the ESB game, there is literally an infinite number of stormtroopers you can kill, there is no such thing as an infinite number of them even when the Empire was at its peak. These elements are commonly placed for entertainment purposes only and are not actually meant to be centerpieces in their accomplishments. Either back these things up with actual, confirmed facts and put them in context, or don't bother at all.
But then there lies the problem, logically we know that Revan fought there, logically we know he faced people in the Sith base. Its a SITH Base... Logically we know from reports on the base from Canderous and others that its heavily guarded. Logically that would mean that an alarm went off and that Revan and his friends met at least several guards, when entering or leaving the Sith Base.
He's trying to downplay gameplay elements. The majority of what Revan has is gameplay. Most of the quotes for Revan are character quotes, therefore, all those sources (outside of saying he defeated Malak and the like, confirmed facts) are dubious.
Yet quotes from people in comics or movies are often allowed, whats the difference between a game character quote and a quote from a character like that.
It would be like me saying Jaden Korr went to Korriban, fought off a bunch of enemies, went to Hoth, infiltrated a Remnant base and killed several force users, went to Tatooine, defeated lightsaber-wielders on his/her very first mission, fought off reborns and bested a mutant rancor, went to Byss and beat 3 dark-side force users simultaneously simply because the game "required it."
I haven't played Jedi Accademy in a long time, but he did go to Hoth he did destroy lightsaber wielders, how many is unknown. How ever there is no other possibility so he did.
Yes, all of those said missions were requirements, none of them were optional. Even if I were to use the optional missions, you must do at least 4 out of 5 of the missions, so there is a great possibility that they were also completed.
And this proves what exactly? That he did do things, like Revan did do things without the force. Which was my argument here really.
Like I mentioned, stick with confirmed storyline, not "well the game requires X, so it must have happened in way Y."
No but if the game requires you to steal launch codes, and the only way to get them is to kill a Sith apprentice and take them, and then leave the Sith base, we can safely say he did indeed do that.
Now logic would dictate that a sith base has guards, as that is also confirmed by characters in game, logic would dictate that the NPC who heard a disturbance up stairs would have heard a fight, logic would dictate that if a fight happened an alarm would have been sound or at least several Sith soldiers were killed. Logical assumptions based on common sense. I'm not claiming he slaughtered through a Sith base and killed god knows how many people there. I'm claiming he went into a Sith base fought then went into an elevator killed a Sith apprentice and then left the base again. And that a commotion was started while doing that.