Originally posted by Big Sexy
Now really, (I must admit I haven't read that comic in 4 years) but I see no sign during the fight to show that Juggernaut was distracted enough to let a class 30 hitter drop him. I see it more as a victory for Venom, but a bullshit one that should not have been written. But what can you do?
Just so we are clear, I don't think Venom should have won but hey, thats logical reasoning. Even if Juggernaut was blind he should have won.
Originally posted by Big Sexy
Just so we are clear, I don't think Venom should have won but hey, thats logical reasoning. Even if Juggernaut was blind he should have won.
If two PRIDE fighters are going at it and one just up and leaves and gets disqualified I wouldn't say the one in the ring won the fight. I would say the one who left lost it by disqualifying himself.
And stop trying to turn everything into a "down with the man they just want the money" thing.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That's just it. I don't think he won because Juggernaut left under his own power with no damage to his person. I don't think Juggernaut won either.If two PRIDE fighters are going at it and one just up and leaves and gets disqualified I wouldn't say the one in the ring won the fight. I would say the one who left lost it by disqualifying himself.
And stop trying to turn everything into a "down with the man they just want the money" thing.
Juggerrnaut should not have been knocked down , but hey , logic again.
HOLD UP A SECOND.
I've got an idea.
Let's pretend, for example, that somehow Venom DID win that fight. Ignore all of Juggernaut's history, the fact that he clearly wasn't injured in that fight, the fact that he clearly DID have feelings for this chick because otherwise he wouldn't still be around--he does say before the fight he wants to be out of there. Ignore all that. Ignore the fact that logic says there's no way in hell for Venom to even move Juggernaut, let alone hurt him, and that neither the Hulk nor Eternity itself could stop Juggs from wanting a fight.
Ignore all that. Let's say Venom won.
Can we remember that this is an unbelievably powered up Venom? The Venom who ran into that goop in the sewer which saved his ass and now made him much, much bigger? In fact, for the sake of logic, let's say that this is 'Cytorrak-negating goop' because it's red. Clearly, it's ridiculous, but for whatever reason, Venom did more than he should ever have done with its aid, tho I still say he didn't win that fight.
The thread is about normal symbiotes. So basically, Venom would fare, at BEST, as well as he did in the first fight of that series, and be curbstomped. As would all the other symbiotes, perhaps toxin a little less so.
Hulk and Juggernaut still take this. Especially if Juggs ever stops to think about his forcefield.
Oh, and Big Sexy.....as far as I can tell, the vast majority of your posts seem to say: "There's no logical explanation whatsoever for it, but somehow Venom trashed the Juggernaut. No one knows how or why it happened, but it did--even though it's against character for both of them, and doesn't fit with their powers at all." Isn't that basically the definition of PIS? Yah, exactly. Beyond that, how can you have a debating thread with no logic involved? Sure, we can't influence the writers at all, but that doesn't mean we can't try to use a LITTLE logic here, no?
I admit I'm new to these boards, so I hope I haven't annoyed anyone with my long posts. Sorry! It's one of the great things about the 'net that we can do this, I think.
Hey Big Sexy,
Sorry if I came across as all crazy and stuff--didn't mean to, believe me. I've read this entire thread before posting (I know, I'm an idiot that way), but that's the main thing I got out of your posts. The point I'm trying to make is that even you seem to agree that the odds are against Venom, but you seem to think it's possible. I'm willing to come halfway with you and say, the symbiotes win it, 1/10....happy?
😉 Just kidding. But sorry if I come across as being really intense. My bad.
Originally posted by harlequin115
HOLD UP A SECOND.I've got an idea.
Let's pretend, for example, that somehow Venom DID win that fight. Ignore all of Juggernaut's history, the fact that he clearly wasn't injured in that fight, the fact that he clearly DID have feelings for this chick because otherwise he wouldn't still be around--he does say before the fight he wants to be out of there. Ignore all that. Ignore the fact that logic says there's no way in hell for Venom to even move Juggernaut, let alone hurt him, and that neither the Hulk nor Eternity itself could stop Juggs from wanting a fight.
Ignore all that. Let's say Venom won.
Can we remember that this is an unbelievably powered up Venom? The Venom who ran into that goop in the sewer which saved his ass and now made him much, much bigger? In fact, for the sake of logic, let's say that this is 'Cytorrak-negating goop' because it's red. Clearly, it's ridiculous, but for whatever reason, Venom did more than he should ever have done with its aid, tho I still say he didn't win that fight.
The thread is about normal symbiotes. So basically, Venom would fare, at BEST, as well as he did in the first fight of that series, and be curbstomped. As would all the other symbiotes, perhaps toxin a little less so.
Hulk and Juggernaut still take this. Especially if Juggs ever stops to think about his forcefield.
Oh, and Big Sexy.....as far as I can tell, the vast majority of your posts seem to say: "There's no logical explanation whatsoever for it, but somehow Venom trashed the Juggernaut. No one knows how or why it happened, but it did--even though it's against character for both of them, and doesn't fit with their powers at all." Isn't that basically the definition of PIS? Yah, exactly. Beyond that, how can you have a debating thread with no logic involved? Sure, we can't influence the writers at all, but that doesn't mean we can't try to use a LITTLE logic here, no?
I admit I'm new to these boards, so I hope I haven't annoyed anyone with my long posts. Sorry! It's one of the great things about the 'net that we can do this, I think.
First of all nobody argues that Juggernaut left under his own free will, he left because he didn't wanted to be there AND because some monster freak was attacking him. But don't say he left because of the girl.
Second those toxins did not made Venom stronger, it never even been mentioned, they only made him mad. Besides it all doesn't matter since in the third issue effect of those toxins was gone before the last fight so Venom was in his normal state.
Funny how people always judge about strength by character's lifting abillities.
Let's see. Spider-man is durable enough to take some punches from Rhino who's attacks were effective even against Hulk.
Venom KOed Spider-man with one punch. So you shouldn't think that Symbiots attacks are nothing to Hulk only because they couldn't lift as much as Rhino or as someone of the class 80, 90.
PS. I'm not saying now that symbiots would win but assuming that they are going down fast is not correct.
Samishe has a damm good point here.
I still stick to my odds 9/1 for the big guys (maybe 8/2 if the symbiotes can work together)
I'm willing to accept that the symbiotes don't have a big change to win, but I'm more affected by the fact that people say "OMG hUKL wil cruzh their headz lol0l"
Fights dont usually go like that. People brought up the Madness issue because they were questioning wether Venom can keep Juggernaut busy while Toxin and Carnage fight Hulk. The answer is simple. Yes. Noone said Venom could defeat him face to face by brute force.
Madness proved, that Venom is more than able to keep Juggs busy, outcome of the match is still more than likely to end up for the juggernaut.
Well, how about Modern Juggs and Grey Hulk vs Strongest forms of Toxin, Carnage and Venom (All of them are around 70tons)? Any opinions? I'd say this match would be more like a draw, or I'd even say the symbiotes have greater chance of winning.