Black Slavery / White People

Originally posted by soleran30
You are speaking out both sides of your mouth there. Socio-economic factors play as much a part of how you are treated in USA as "race." That doesn't mean race doesn't play a factor, just there are other things antagonizing that position that you might be overlooking.

And again it goes back to whom controls the means of production?
Answer that pal!!!WHO
white people. Hence we can surmise that if you are not white, the chances of you not being in a financially stable status are much higher, HEnce again as another penalty, you are discriminate. That goes hand in hand. You tell me the amount of Oprah Winfreys are there in America,

Originally posted by Bardock42
a) Spain is not actually a White Country....and b) France and Spain (even though it might seem like it to an American like you) is not the whole of Europe....your stereotyping is quite offensive, I wish you would refrain from it.

Read her comments buddy.
She asked me if I have had experience with Europeans.
I can't of course say that the entire European countries are racists because I have not been all around Europe but I have been in some.
Read carefully previous posts before jumping on the bandwagon

Originally posted by LordFear
And again it goes back to whom controls the means of production?
Answer that pal!!!WHO
white people. Hence we can surmise that if you are not white, the chances of you not being in a financially stable status are much higher, HEnce again as another penalty, you are discriminate. That goes hand in hand. You tell me the amount of Oprah Winfreys are there in America,

Yeah know what in your black and white world you need to take a step back and not make any more excuses for the level of success or lack of success of other people. How many Quiero Moto's are there out there is a better question then your Oprah (who regardless of "race" and gender is richer then most people in the WORLD.)

Just do me a favor with your crying and bleating stop complaining about the position in life because if you think "white" folks are looking out anymore for white folks to get rich your wrong. Just as most white folks aren't sitting around thinking of ways to deprive other "races" at least in the USA.

Originally posted by LordFear
Read her comments buddy.
She asked me if I have had experience with Europeans.
I can't of course say that the entire European countries are racists because I have not been all around Europe but I have been in some.
Read carefully previous posts before jumping on the bandwagon

I read the,m, doesn't make it any less ignorant. Dude, I was in France around Seven times and am myself a European and I would not go so far to make a judgement on the amount of Racism there. Plus, when you talk about the Europeans Slavers it very much seems as if you were substituting Europe with England (maybe also Spain). Cause matter oif fact is that polish, german, italian, russian and many other European settlers usually weren't slavers. And even if, why the hell should Europeans nowadays feel ashamed for it?

Originally posted by soleran30
Yeah know what in your black and white world you need to take a step back and not make any more excuses for the level of success or lack of success of other people. How many Quiero Moto's are there out there is a better question then your Oprah (who regardless of "race" and gender is richer then most people in the WORLD.)

Just do me a favor with your crying and bleating stop complaining about the position in life because if you think "white" folks are looking out anymore for white folks to get rich your wrong. Just as most white folks aren't sitting around thinking of ways to deprive other "races" at least in the USA.

And so we go back to the same stance. People precisely like yourself who instead of listening and trying to understand, gets annoyed by all of this perhaps because deep inside you realize that there is a larger issue that needs to be spoken about and you just attack an individual without any provocation. It's senseless and really immature. I would have hoped that more enlightened members could hold an interesting dialogue on this subject but I guess not.
You don't know me from atom nor any of my experiences in life, you simply disregard me as an individual and go straight for the jugular.
I won't even justify that remark by telling you that I am no where displeased with my social, economic nor educational status but that would just be arguing with a willful ignorant.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I read the,m, doesn't make it any less ignorant. Dude, I was in France around Seven times and am myself a European and I would not go so far to make a judgement on the amount of Racism there. Plus, when you talk about the Europeans Slavers it very much seems as if you were substituting Europe with England (maybe also Spain). Cause matter oif fact is that polish, german, italian, russian and many other European settlers usually weren't slavers. And even if, why the hell should Europeans nowadays feel ashamed for it?

Of course not they have no reason to feel ashamed. "It wasn't me who h armed these people. It was my ancestors. Why should I care?"
It doesn't matter to you since you were born the right skin and complexion. Life must be good I assume. Well good for you. Just to let you know SOME people are having a hard time with the whole thing, but again you had no dealings with it so why bother?
I would probably say the same if I was in your shoes, then again.....
Oh and P.S- go to the slums of France and take a quick survey and figure out what color faces those people living there are. Then take a good look at the good jobs in France and see who occupies them.Maybe if you have time, ask a colored person who has ever been discriminated by a white French how it feels to suffer racism?
Oh and by the way, I suppose all those arsons going on in France about four or six months ago was unrelated to racism and equality right?

Originally posted by LordFear
And so we go back to the same stance. People precisely like yourself who instead of listening and trying to understand, gets annoyed by all of this perhaps because deep inside you realize that there is a larger issue that needs to be spoken about and you just attack an individual without any provocation. It's senseless and really immature. I would have hoped that more enlightened members could hold an interesting dialogue on this subject but I guess not.
You don't know me from atom nor any of my experiences in life, you simply disregard me as an individual and go straight for the jugular.
I won't even justify that remark by telling you that I am no where displeased with my social, economic nor educational status but that would just be arguing with a willful ignorant.

Acknowledging a problem is one thing ie racism, which I have and also acknowledged socio-economics to play a part as well. I have listened and you use EXTREME situations to justify a position ie Oprah. There is a MUCH LARGER issue to discuss and thats solutions and reasonable results. You focus on the "problem with the man" so to speak and once again not so result oriented as problem focused.

I do know you from your posts and your experiences as they relate to this post and what you have said. Based off what I have read and you have shared I formed an opinion, so I didn't disregard anything I read and listened. Your so focused on problems you cannot even find solutions just complaints.......................if your enlightened keep me in the dark because I don't want to be so blinded by this "enlightenment" that I constantly find and make excuses.

Originally posted by LordFear
Of course not they have no reason to feel ashamed. "It wasn't me who h armed these people. It was my ancestors. Why should I care?"
It doesn't matter to you since you were born the right skin and complexion. Life must be good I assume. Well good for you. Just to let you know SOME people are having a hard time with the whole thing, but again you had no dealings with it so why bother?
I would probably say the same if I was in your shoes, then again.....
Oh and P.S- go to the slums of France and take a quick survey and figure out what color faces those people living there are. Then take a good look at the good jobs in France and see who occupies them.Maybe if you have time, ask a colored person who has ever been discriminated by a white French how it feels to suffer racism?
Oh and by the way, I suppose all those arsons going on in France about four or six months ago was unrelated to racism and equality right?

Look guy, if it was actually my ancestors who had Slaves in America I wouldn't be European today, now would I?

Then, you are aware that France is peedominantly a white country. As well that most of the people rioting were secong generation immigrants. Life is hard as an immigrant, that is no news.

And certainly I have no guilt in what my ancestors did. just as much as no Black has any guilt for what their ancestors might have doine. If you didn't know we all are individuals, if you never enslaved people you certainly shoudn'T feel ashamed for it.

Originally posted by soleran30
Acknowledging a problem is one thing ie racism, which I have and also acknowledged socio-economics to play a part as well. I have listened and you use EXTREME situations to justify a position ie Oprah. There is a MUCH LARGER issue to discuss and thats solutions and reasonable results. You focus on the "problem with the man" so to speak and once again not so result oriented as problem focused.

I do know you from your posts and your experiences as they relate to this post and what you have said. Based off what I have read and you have shared I formed an opinion, so I didn't disregard anything I read and listened. Your so focused on problems you cannot even find solutions just complaints.......................if your enlightened keep me in the dark because I don't want to be so blinded by this "enlightenment" that I constantly find and make excuses.

It seems that for some reason the Oprah example has really offended or struck a cord with you. If it pleases the court, I could substitute her for any wealthy black american and still ask you if you THINK that there is a disparity between the ultra-millionnaires and billionaires white as oppose to black. Can you concur on that fact or have I offended again?
SECOND- was there any mention of solving this problem? Not to my knowledge. The question was not to solve the race relation problems between blacks and whites but to bring them to light and if people BELIEVE that there is an issue?
But if its solutions you want, then sure why not the government adhering to its end of the bargain and give Blacks their deserved forty acres and a mule? Why not organize race relation centers in all major urban cities across the US? Why not change the antiquated judicial laws on the books and update them? Why not establish a supervisory committee representing the many and diverse races in America to supercede in the political arena? Why not have Latin studies in college as easily accessible as African studies? Why not criminals who are trialed actually trialed by a jury of their peers? Is that constitutional?
Do you want any more solutions?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look guy, if it was actually my ancestors who had Slaves in America I wouldn't be European today, now would I?

Then, you are aware that France is peedominantly a white country. As well that most of the people rioting were secong generation immigrants. Life is hard as an immigrant, that is no news.

And certainly I have no guilt in what my ancestors did. just as much as no Black has any guilt for what their ancestors might have doine. If you didn't know we all are individuals, if you never enslaved people you certainly shoudn'T feel ashamed for it.

Second generations who were BORN in France therefore are french citizens and should qualify for all the benefits that entails. They are not being seen as such. They are being told that "Well your family mother and father were immigrants, so technically you are an immigrant even though you were born here". That's equality? So your answer is " Hey life is hard, what else is new"?

Furthermore I am NOT saying to be ashamed but DAMN IT be consciencous of the fact that this exists and it still is a huge problem piercing at the sides of this country. Don't feel ashamed, I but make it your problem because your ancestor is long gone, dust but YOU are still here and YOU can educated those that you may come across as being bigots.

Originally posted by LordFear
Second generations who were BORN in France therefore are french citizens and should qualify for all the benefits that entails. They are not being seen as such. They are being told that "Well your family mother and father were immigrants, so technically you are an immigrant even though you were born here". That's equality? So your answer is " Hey life is hard, what else is new"?

Furthermore I am NOT saying to be ashamed but DAMN IT be consciencous of the fact that this exists and it still is a huge problem piercing at the sides of this country. Don't feel ashamed, I but make it your problem because your ancestor is long gone, dust but YOU are still here and YOU can educated those that you may come across as being bigots.

What the, yes they should be entitled to the same benefits (so shoud the Immigrants themself) but I don't think that is the major problem. I think the French Government gives them the equal rights. I think there is still racism in Europe today, although i also think it is not comparable to the amount of racism n the United States. Since you are so fond of speaking about Europe, we could shift our Attention to Germany, since I know more about it, I can't give much information about the problem in France, at least no more than is provided by the media.

Oh I totally agree. But I think everyone should recocknize and fight against ignorance and bigotry because we all should be decent humans. Not because ones ancestor might or might not have had something to do with racism or slavery.

I think you using Ultra-Miilionnaires as an example is assinine anyway and there are far greater millionaires in the middle east that are colored then you either aren't aware of or ignoring.

My asking for an answer is because you keep speaking of problems with "race" relations. In my experience I have seen poor blacks and poor whites and something I noticed in both of them their attitudes suck they complain and the largest amount of prejudice is coming from these people as well as the most violence. Hence poverty creates larger pools of hate then race and educating someone who is hungry or angry won't work.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How can any of us take any of your argument seriously when you use phrases such as ''White Europien Assholes''
In fact by using such phrases, you are no better than those ''white europien assholes'' you are condeming!

I find that extreamly offencive.

Because the phrase isn't just blunt, it has a point.

Did Blacks or Latinos ever subject mass populations to slavery, force them to forget their language and religion and adopt an entirely new one? No. White people did. Dont try to deny it.

And racist jokes ARE funny, lets be honest everyone likes them including your's truly. You know they're funny. When youre at home by yourself I'll bet you laugh when you hear one on TV, but when your around other people you probably say "Oh, my God, thats horrendous! Dont laugh anybody!"

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Because the phrase isn't just blunt, it has a point.

Did Blacks or Latinos ever subject mass populations to slavery, force them to forget their language and religion and adopt an entirely new one? No. White people did. Dont try to deny it.

And racist jokes ARE funny, lets be honest everyone likes them including your's truly. You know they're funny. When youre at home by yourself I'll bet you laugh when you hear one on TV, but when your around other people you probably say "Oh, my God, thats horrendous! Dont laugh anybody!"

To be fair the Spanish did. Not fair jsut to put them in with White Europeans cause it suits your arguement.

And I am sure Tribes in Africa did quite horrendous things, as well. As for Latinos...aren't Latinos basically Spanish? I think you should feel ashamed for the Inquisition.....

Oh and, NO, I certainly don't behave like that.....I find racist jokes hilarious all the time (well if they are actually funny)

Originally posted by LordFear
Patronizing you in what way? Please elaborate on that please!
Second to answer your question yes. I was born in the US but raised in Canada and spent time in Spain and France. So please if you think that I am just another american that hasn't left the confines of America, please think again. I can tell you from fact, that in Spain people of darker color skin are regarded differently, everytime I was either in the library, club or wherever. Then as far as France, well please let's not even go there because its a known fact that France to this day has a huge ethnic/immigrant population and they segregate them severly to this day. So if you are trying to say that Europeans at large at n ot racist, please take a broader look and perhaps snap out of that dream that you might be living in

You have been to 2 countries in Europe and you claimed that ''europiens at large are racist! With all due respect, that is ridiculously laughable. And not anly laughable, but stupid.

Are you aware that there are 45 (counting Vatican) countreis in Europe, and do you release you have went to 2 countries and with that generalised all Europiens.

You do also release that Europe is not like America - and that each country is different, with different languages, culture and history?

Right. Stereotyping at its best.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You have been to 2 countries in Europe and you claimed that ''europiens at large are racist! With all due respect, that is ridiculously laughable. And not anly laughable, but stupid.

Are you aware that there are 45 (counting Vatican) countreis in Europe, and do you release you have went to 2 countries and with that generalised all Europiens.

One of them not even being a "White Europpean Country" (not that it makes a difference to me, it certainly makes a difference to his arguement though)

Originally posted by Bardock42
To be fair the Spanish did. Not fair jsut to put them in with White Europeans cause it suits your arguement.

And I am sure Tribes in Africa did quite horrendous things, as well. As for Latinos...aren't Latinos basically Spanish? I think you should feel ashamed for the Inquisition.....

Oh and, NO, I certainly don't behave like that.....I find racist jokes hilarious all the time (well if they are actually funny)

No I dont feel bad about the inquisition, because I'm not a Spaniard. I dislike the Spaniards for doing what they did to my Aztec ancestors. They brought small pox, raped pillaged, and destroyed the greatest civilaztion in the Americas. And because of that, I involuntarily have Spanish blood in my Aztec veins, just like African Americans involuntarily have white blood in their veins.

Latinos are a hybrid race, due to Spaniards raping the Indians.

You're not one to talk about people who should feel ashamed about inhuman deeds.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Because the phrase isn't just blunt, it has a point.

Did Blacks or Latinos ever subject mass populations to slavery, force them to forget their language and religion and adopt an entirely new one? No. White people did. Dont try to deny it.

And racist jokes ARE funny, lets be honest everyone likes them including your's truly. You know they're funny. When youre at home by yourself I'll bet you laugh when you hear one on TV, but when your around other people you probably say "Oh, my God, thats horrendous! Dont laugh anybody!"

Actually to me, racist jokes ar enot funny. As a sociologist I see racist jokes, sexist jokes, jewish jokes and other as demeaning, because I know their origin.

Do you know where those jokes came from? From the same 'racism' you are comdeming.

Black people didn't come out with jokes about black people being incompitant - racists did.
Jews didnt come up with jokes witch degrade and put down Jews as greedy, stupid, rich and evil - neo-nazis did.

The fact that they are funny to you, adn you see nothing wrong with them, does not make you any better than that red kneck who thinks that hispanics are dirty...or whatever other demeaning stereotype they have.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No I dont feel bad about the inquisition, because I'm not a Spaniard. I dislike the Spaniards for doing what they did to my Aztec ancestors. They brought small pox, raped pillaged, and destroyed the greatest civilaztion in the Americas. And because of that, I involuntarily have Spanish blood in my Aztec veins, just like African Americans involuntarily have white blood in their veins.

Latinos are a hybrid race, due to Spaniards raping the Indians.

You're not one to talk about people who should feel ashamed about inhuman deeds.

Oh I certainly am the one...jsut as much as you. So as you admited your ancestors are partly spanish...so why do I have to feel ashamed for what the Germans did but you not for what teh Spanish did? Oh and Aztecs...ritual killings...yeah...they were oh so innocent.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No I dont feel bad about the inquisition, because I'm not a Spaniard. I dislike the Spaniards for doing what they did to my Aztec ancestors. They brought small pox, raped pillaged, and destroyed the greatest civilaztion in the Americas. And because of that, I involuntarily have Spanish blood in my Aztec veins, just like African Americans involuntarily have white blood in their veins.

Latinos are a hybrid race, due to Spaniards raping the Indians.

You're not one to talk about people who should feel ashamed about inhuman deeds.

And Greeks, Cypriots, Serbs, Albanians, Croatians, Bulgarians have involuntary Arab blood in their veins, when their ancestors were raped, tortured and killed by Turks and Arabs. Our music, our dressing code, our songs, our food, is all mixed with Arabic tradition.
Our language is not our language anymore because its been changed and remodeled according to Arabians.

The fact that you live in America, does not mean that only YOU in America have/had problems with expansion and imperialism. Because America never has and never will equal centre of the world.

Not whole world, and most certainly not whole of europe is responsible for YOUR history. There are 45 countries in Europe, one not even being a ''white europien'' you can even count southern balkan countries as not being ''Europien white''.
Out of those 45 countries, Portugal and Spain, were responsible for South America.

The rest of us do not share your history - get over it.