Black Slavery / White People

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Whats your heritage and culture? Didnt your location say that you were from Japan not too long ago?

Most middle class whites literally belive that racism is a chapter of the past, and they do take it for granted and consider it normal as you put it.

Most whites in the US wouldnt take "honkey" offensive, as they are comforted in knowing that they are more numeric and "the best".

As a Chicano who's nearly 40 years old and who was born and raised in the southwest, I've been seeing (and dealing with) that shit my whole life.

Well said sir. Whenever a race control the means of production on a national and global scale, it automatically becomes the dominant race.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Ok, but Slavery was alive in Ancient Egypt...which is in Africa, not in Europe....So buddy, that to me says that "White european assholes" did not create Slavery.

And just now, you changed your whole agrument...I was simply stating "european assholes" did not create slavery, not changed the concept of it.

Originally posted by LordFear
Well then I should say that they created it in America. They brought the idea from the other part of the world and not only created it for their own purpose but engineered it to perfection.
Yes I stick with my argument that they created it. In the US they sure as hell did because Columbus certainly didn't find the Native Americans doing it to each other.

Actually the first ever "slaves" in North America were from the Spanish empire....San Miguel de Gualdape colony....So white europeans didn't invent it in America either.

But I agree with you that they ddi revolutionize it.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Actually the first ever "slaves" in North America were from the Spanish empire....San Miguel de Gualdape colony....So white europeans didn't invent it in America either.

But I agree with you that they ddi revolutionize it.

Originally posted by LordFear
North America dude, you are talking about Gudeluope right?
Is that not Central or South America?

Originally posted by LordFear
North America dude, you are talking about Gudeluope right?
Is that not Central or South America?

No, I'm talking about the San Miguel de Gualdape colony, in present day South Carolina.

Originally posted by LordFear
Well then I should say that they created it in America. They brought the idea from the other part of the world and not only created it for their own purpose but engineered it to perfection.
Yes I stick with my argument that they created it. In the US they sure as hell did because Columbus certainly didn't find the Native Americans doing it to each other.

Some Native Americans did keep slaves in the USA. Egypt has had slaves for centuries. India has had slaves longer then Egypt. China and Japan has kept slaves. Aztecs in Mexico has kept slaves. All of these cultures were around a long long time before the USA was ever a twinkle in the eyes of the world. The Roman empire kept slaves hell we know Germany did as well.

Lord Fear you are just talking out your ass about the foundations of Slavery. If the USA perfected slavery then how about those Slave traders still working in China and Africa...................did I mention modern day slave drivers?

Phew USA education at its finest...............

Originally posted by LordFear
I was just stating the obvious and what most people think but again White America being so sensitive to everybodies feelings nowadays, so I figured I would get backlash for it, but "Oh well"

Absolutely, those were obvious facts and most non-whites beleive that, but not without a good reason.

For a long time white Americans had impervious skin, but I guess recently they take things very offensive of a racial nature.

Originally posted by LordFear
Yes and although two wrongs don't make a right, can you blame them for it? Think what other race has so forcefully and arrogantly imposed it's supremecy/imperialism as vehemently and savagely across an entire globe as much as white Europeans? The facts speak for themselves

Beautifully said!

Originally posted by Eis
I think the feeling a coloured person feels when they are being discriminated (By their colour) is nothing at all like the feeling a white person gets when we're being discriminating by our colour.

Nope, not EVEN close, not by a longshot!

Originally posted by LordFear
It was not like they arrived to Africa and discovered" Oh wow these guys are enslaving people, what a neat and creative concept so let's adopt it" If that's what you are trying to pull as an argument, good luck.
And furthermore we can even go further back in history to perhaps bc times and find slavery. European assholes as I indeed put it, they took that concept and scaled it on a national level. Their entire domestic/ export economy was based on it at one point. You chose the parts of my argument that pleases you and strengthens your position. That's not how a good debater operates, buddy!!!

How can any of us take any of your argument seriously when you use phrases such as ''White Europien Assholes''
In fact by using such phrases, you are no better than those ''white europien assholes'' you are condeming!

I find that extreamly offencive.

Originally posted by LordFear
Yes and although two wrongs don't make a right, can you blame them for it? Think what other race has so forcefully and arrogantly imposed it's supremacy/imperialism as vehemently and savagely across an entire globe as much as white Europeans? The facts speak for themselves

They have, and noone denies that. But just as you yourself have said. two wrongs don;'t make a right, and if you think that by further hostility you are going to achieve any kind of equality or tolerance, then you are sadly mistaken.

Many people in Europe today do not identify with what their ancestors did, nor do they endorse it or can change that - Black people are treated like shit even today, and that is the issue which needs to be adressed, every single day, through education, not through more 'racism' and discrimination from both sides.

If you impose more 'racism' it just gives neo-nazis an excuse to further discriminate and place black people into categories of criminals, rapists and other categories which are apperantly determaned by colour!

I should, then by default hate all Arabs and Turks, much like every Greek, Armenian, Serb, Cypriot...etc, because they came and ''forcefully and arrogantly imposed their supremacy/imperialism as vehemently and savagely across'' our lands and kept us enslaved for 500 years, commited numerous genocides many of which they refuse to akcnowledge (Armanian genocide for example)

But I don't. It was wrong, savage and brutal, but I will not automatically hate all Turks and Arabs and then use the terrible torture and enslavement they have placed upon my people as an excuse to discriminate and hate, saying that they should not be offended because of what they did.

You need to work on your stereotyping of people - not all Europeans expanded, not all Europeans enslaved Africa.

Use of that phrase makes your points extreamly pointless and hypocritical.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
No, I'm talking about the San Miguel de Gualdape colony, in present day South Carolina.

Didn't know that so I guess I must retract my previous statement because it was wrong. So Europeans didn't invent slavery in US as well.
I was wrong then. But the rest of my argument stays the same and so does my position on it

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
They have, and noone denies that. But just as you yourself have said. two wrongs don;'t make a right, and if you think that by further hostility you are going to achieve any kind of equality or tolerance, then you are sadly mistaken.

Many people in Europe today do not identify with what their ancestors did, nor do they endorse it or can change that - Black people are treated like shit even today, and that is the issue which needs to be adressed, every single day, through education, not through more 'racism' and discrimination from both sides.

If you impose more 'racism' it just gives neo-nazis an excuse to further discriminate and place black people into categories of criminals, rapists and other categories which are apperantly determaned by colour!

I should, then by default hate all Arabs and Turks, much like every Greek, Armenian, Serb, Cypriot...etc, because they came and ''forcefully and arrogantly imposed their supremacy/imperialism as vehemently and savagely across'' our lands and kept us enslaved for 500 years, commited numerous genocides many of which they refuse to akcnowledge (Armanian genocide for example)

But I don't. It was wrong, savage and brutal, but I will not automatically hate all Turks and Arabs and then use the terrible torture and enslavement they have placed upon my people as an excuse to discriminate and hate, saying that they should not be offended because of what they did.

You need to work on your stereotyping of people - not all Europeans expanded, not all Europeans enslaved Africa.

Use of that phrase makes your points extreamly pointless and hypocritical.

Many people in Europe today do not identify with what their ancestors did, nor do they endorse it or can change that - Black people are treated like shit even today, and that is the issue which needs to be adressed, every single day, through education, not through more 'racism' and discrimination from both sides.

Have you ever heard of the joke "What do you call a black man with a PhD?" the answer? "A ******".
This racist joke you would think is just a harmless joke and to think nothing of it, but the fact is that more white people believe that to be true. More than perhaps you would care to believe. My point is just like communism, "education is the key" is what people say but it only looks good on paper dear. When put into practice, you'll find its much harder than you might expect.
As far as me being hypocritical, I am a pragmatist/realist and see things for what they are. I am not labeling all white folks as racist but does the majority or at least half are? Most likely and that for me is just as bad as all of them being racist

Originally posted by soleran30
Some Native Americans did keep slaves in the USA. Egypt has had slaves for centuries. India has had slaves longer then Egypt. China and Japan has kept slaves. Aztecs in Mexico has kept slaves. All of these cultures were around a long long time before the USA was ever a twinkle in the eyes of the world. The Roman empire kept slaves hell we know Germany did as well.

Lord Fear you are just talking out your ass about the foundations of Slavery. If the USA perfected slavery then how about those Slave traders still working in China and Africa...................did I mention modern day slave drivers?

Phew USA education at its finest...............

I am speaking about american history. WHy are you bringing Asian and African politics in the debate. I have already admitted that I was wrong about Europeans bringing the slavery notion to the Americas but for you not to say that they have not refined it, then YOU need to maybe pay more attention to Black History month when they keep running stories about slaves and what they endured. Do you know the methods they employed to get total obediance and dominion over their slaves? Several journals have entries stating that some slaverowners would try to devise new methods of torture, as a means to instill fear and obediance. Are you telling me that that's not reinventing the wheel?
I'll let the other members of this forum be the judge of that

Originally posted by LordFear
Many people in Europe today do not identify with what their ancestors did, nor do they endorse it or can change that - Black people are treated like shit even today, and that is the issue which needs to be adressed, every single day, through education, not through more 'racism' and discrimination from both sides.

Have you ever heard of the joke "What do you call a black man with a PhD?" the answer? "A ******".
This racist joke you would think is just a harmless joke and to think nothing of it, but the fact is that more white people believe that to be true. More than perhaps you would care to believe. My point is just like communism, "education is the key" is what people say but it only looks good on paper dear. When put into practice, you'll find its much harder than you might expect.
As far as me being hypocritical, I am a pragmatist/realist and see things for what they are. I am not labeling all white folks as racist but does the majority or at least half are? Most likely and that for me is just as bad as all of them being racist

I take racist jokes, like the one above, very seriously, and do not find them funny in the slightest.

In fact we had a thread about that around here once - about 'harmlessness' of 'racist' jokes.
They are not harmless - they are a subtle racism, a exercise of power and supremisy of one people over other, where if someone tends to complain about it, people will dismiss it as ''lack of humor''

Same goes for sexist jokes, Jewish jokes, black jokes or any other demeaning type of ''funny'' some people find it being so.

Second, I find it extreamly rude, that you atempt to patronise me. If you like you like to have a debate and exhcnage of ideas, then Im more than happy to do so, but do NOT atempt to patronise me! Its rude adn uncalled for.

Have you met at least half of Europien people so you can claim that at least half are racist?!
You are not a realist - you are closed minded and America Centered where you see the whole world through America's eyes.
That alone makes you less of a realist than many of us here.

Europe does not Equal America, and I bet you any money you couldnt off the top of your head name at last half of the countries in Europe, the same ones you claim are racist!

Originally posted by LordFear
Many people in Europe today do not identify with what their ancestors did, nor do they endorse it or can change that - Black people are treated like shit even today, and that is the issue which needs to be adressed, every single day, through education, not through more 'racism' and discrimination from both sides.

As far as me being hypocritical, I am a pragmatist/realist and see things for what they are. I am not labeling all white folks as racist but does the majority or at least half are? Most likely and that for me is just as bad as all of them being racist

You are speaking out both sides of your mouth there. Socio-economic factors play as much a part of how you are treated in USA as "race." That doesn't mean race doesn't play a factor, just there are other things antagonizing that position that you might be overlooking.

Originally posted by Eis
I think the feeling a coloured person feels when they are being discriminated (By their colour) is nothing at all like the feeling a white person gets when we're being discriminating by our colour.

I'm classified by skin color as being 'caucasian', but I live in a country where my ethnicity is a distinct minority. Every day I hear the words 'wei guo ren', which means 'foreigner', and part of me feels annoyed to be classified by something I have no control over. However, another part of me feels that physical classifications innately begin with appearance, so there is no reason to be offended. Either way, I don't belive making an issue of one's skin tone is any basis for categorization other than for physical definitions.

Obviously, the history of my ethnicity is not plagued by discrimination (in fact the opposite is true), but I still feel the same sense of being an 'outsider', that many other minorities do. It's not a nice feeling because, when you feel a country is your home, to continually be considered different means that you will actually never feel completely at home.

People should stop doing that.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I take racist jokes, like the one above, very seriously, and do not find them funny in the slightest.

In fact we had a thread about that around here once - about 'harmlessness' of 'racist' jokes.
They are [b]not harmless - they are a subtle racism, a exercise of power and supremisy of one people over other, where if someone tends to complain about it, people will dismiss it as ''lack of humor''

Same goes for sexist jokes, Jewish jokes, black jokes or any other demeaning type of ''funny'' some people find it being so.

Second, I find it extreamly rude, that you atempt to patronise me. If you like you like to have a debate and exhcnage of ideas, then Im more than happy to do so, but do NOT atempt to patronise me! Its rude adn uncalled for.

Have you met at least half of Europien people so you can claim that at least half are racist?!
You are not a realist - you are closed minded and America Centered where you see the whole world through America's eyes.
That alone makes you less of a realist than many of us here.

Europe does not Equal America, and I bet you any money you couldnt off the top of your head name at last half of the countries in Europe, the same ones you claim are racist! [/B]

Patronizing you in what way? Please elaborate on that please!
Second to answer your question yes. I was born in the US but raised in Canada and spent time in Spain and France. So please if you think that I am just another american that hasn't left the confines of America, please think again. I can tell you from fact, that in Spain people of darker color skin are regarded differently, everytime I was either in the library, club or wherever. Then as far as France, well please let's not even go there because its a known fact that France to this day has a huge ethnic/immigrant population and they segregate them severly to this day. So if you are trying to say that Europeans at large at n ot racist, please take a broader look and perhaps snap out of that dream that you might be living in

Originally posted by LordFear
Patronizing you in what way? Please elaborate on that please!
Second to answer your question yes. I was born in the US but raised in Canada and spent time in Spain and France. So please if you think that I am just another american that hasn't left the confines of America, please think again. I can tell you from fact, that in Spain people of darker color skin are regarded differently, everytime I was either in the library, club or wherever. Then as far as France, well please let's not even go there because its a known fact that France to this day has a huge ethnic/immigrant population and they segregate them severly to this day. So if you are trying to say that Europeans at large at n ot racist, please take a broader look and perhaps snap out of that dream that you might be living in

a) Spain is not actually a White Country....and b) France and Spain (even though it might seem like it to an American like you) is not the whole of Europe....your stereotyping is quite offensive, I wish you would refrain from it.