Originally posted by ShakyamunisonThat is what is stated in the Bible. Thus, biblically there are two differing uses of the term God. One must in fact refer to the state of being a God, and the other must be referencing to a governing body that is referenced as God.
No, it's just boring sometimes on the forum. 😆god 1 = father
god 2 = son
god 3 = spiritThat sounds like three gods to me.
Multiple gods should be a foregone conclusion given the text of the bible. It is only an attempt to reconcile statements of "One God" with the fact of statement of God the Father as well as God the Son as well as God the Holy Spirit. Fact is there are three separate entities referenced as God, yet most Christians hold that their understanding of the "One God" references must be the correct of the two. Biblical text shows three individuals. Thus the understanding of "One God" should be in question, not the understanding of three individuals. Most of Christianity follows a very illogical methodology with reconciliation of the text.
Very explicitely the three individuals were presented as separate at Christ's baptism. The most clear and definitive presentation of three separate Gods in the entire Bible is in the New Testament, yet it is the Old Testament statement that is understood as authoritative on this subject.
This is odd also from the position that most Christians have that the Old Testament is either clarified or replaced by the teachings of Christ and the apostles in the New Testament.
Very illogical is the position of most Christians in my opinion.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, it's just boring sometimes on the forum. 😆
* wow, is that a compliment? 😛
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
god 1 = father
god 2 = son
god 3 = spiritThat sounds like three gods to me.
* ah, nope... the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is a God, nor does it say that the Holy Spirit is not... but what we can be sure of, the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead with the Father and Son... we must not interpret it in anyway...
* also, the Bible says that the Son testifies that the Father is God... the Father also testifies that His Son is God... both the Father and Son are Gods...
* does it contradict the verses in the Bible? nope... because the Father is the God referred in most of the Old Testament... and then, the Father introduced His Son as a God also in the New Testament... 🙂
Originally posted by peejayd
* wow, is that a compliment? 😛* ah, nope... the Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is a God, nor does it say that the Holy Spirit is not... but what we can be sure of, the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead with the Father and Son... we must not interpret it in anyway...
* also, the Bible says that the Son testifies that the Father is God... the Father also testifies that His Son is God... both the Father and Son are Gods...
* does it contradict the verses in the Bible? nope... because the Father is the God referred in most of the Old Testament... and then, the Father introduced His Son as a God also in the New Testament... 🙂
So, there are two, not three gods. 🙄
Punker69-
You are correct, in saying, that the Bible, does not mention (the word), "Trinity." However, the "concept" of the Trinity is present. Many people, despite the plan reading of the Bible, attempt to force God into humanistic terms. As humans, it should be expected--if God does exists--that we are incapable of understanding the "essence" of God in full. If only for this reason: God--as the Bible records--exists outside length, width, space, and time dimensions.
Check out the hyperlink below; it will help your understanding.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Punker69-You are correct, in saying, that the Bible, does not mention (the word), "Trinity." However, the "concept" of the Trinity is present. Many people, despite the plan reading of the Bible, attempt to force God into humanistic terms. As humans, it should be expected--if God does exists--that we are incapable of understanding the "essence" of God in full. If only for this reason: God--as the Bible records--exists outside length, width, space, and time dimensions.
Any-who... check out the hyperlink below; it will help your understanding.
If the essence of god is outside the understanding of humans, then no matter what is said about god, it is at some level wrong. That means that the bible is wrong at some fundamental level.
Something that cannot be understood, cannot be explained.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If the essence of god is outside the understanding of humans, then no matter what is said about god, it is at some level wrong.
Absolutely... if not entirely!
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That means that the bible is wrong at some fundamental level.
No! The Bible, although "written" by men, was NOT "inspired" by men. On the contrary, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirt.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Something that cannot be understood, cannot be explained.
Then why are you making "objective" statements?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Absolutely... if not entirely!No! The Bible, although "written" by men, the Bible was NOT "inspired" by men. On the contrary, the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirt.
Then why are you making "objective" statements?
Your logic is contradictory. You say that god cannot be understood, but then you say that the bible does understand god. By saying that the bible does understand god, you are saying that humans can understand god.
This is simply wrong.
If you are saying that the bible understands god but humans can never understand the bible, then that would make more sense. However, it would lead to the same conclusion that fundamentally anything a humans says about god is wrong at some level.
Something that cannot be understood, cannot be explained. Is a simple logical truth.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your logic is contradictory.
Okay.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You say that god cannot be understood, but then you say that the bible does understand god.
I never stated that God could not be understood; I did state, however, that knowing the "full" essence--the "full" essence!--of God is not possible.
However, the Bible was inspired by God (the Holy Spirit); and man has the ability to read (what God inspired)! Hence, the reason man is able to ascertain truth about God. Man is able to read, for example, about the concept of the Trinity, but may not fully comprehend. It is the truth, nonetheless. It was inspired by God, not man.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
By saying that the bible does understand god, you are saying that humans can understand god.
I never said that. I think my statement above brings meaning to this quote. Why are you being difficult?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is simply wrong.
No. You simply don't understand (or your being difficult).
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you are saying that the bible understands god but humans can never understand the bible, then that would make more sense.
First, the Bible does not understand God. The Bible is a book--more accurately, a compilation of books! In any case, the Bible simply records God's relationship with Israel and much more. The Bible is simply the Word of God, not God Himself! You need to put things into perspective before asking questions and/or making statements. The quote above, makes no sense.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, it would lead to the same conclusion that fundamentally anything a human says about god is wrong at some level.
Anything a "human" says... yes! Not the Bible, however; it was "inspired" by God.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Something that cannot be understood, cannot be explained. Is a simple logical truth.
I understand your point, but what does this quote have to do with this conversation?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Okay....
I understand your point, but what does this quote have to do with this conversation?
The point is, you cannot be absolutely sure when it comes to talking about god.
You have a bad habit of assuming that you are correct and that other people are wrong. This assumption is blinding you to the idea that peejayd's interpretation of the bible maybe just as valid as yours.
BTW I am not the person who is difficult in this cases. You do seem to project your own problems onto others.
From my point of view; the bible is just a book and you two are debating the finer points of fiction.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The point is, you cannot be absolutely sure when it comes to talking about god.
Yes I can, thanks to the Bible. That's the whole point. It was not inspired by men!
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have a bad habit of assuming that you are correct and that other people are wrong. This assumption is blinding you to the idea that peejayd's interpretation of the bible maybe just as valid as yours.
I cannot comment on this. What are peejay's views? I am not sure, for, I did not read the entire thread.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
BTW I am not the person who is difficult in this cases. You do seem to project your own problems onto others.
What problems?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
From my point of view; the bible is just a book and you two are debating the finer points of fiction.
The Bible is a book, but it's a book inspired by God--the Holy Spirit--"through" man.
Help me understand your view Shaky.... I am not trying to be difficult.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Yes I can, thanks to the Bible. That's the whole point. It was not inspired by men!
The bible says that god works in mysterious ways? That means we humans cannot understand god? Are you saying that the bible is wrong?
Originally posted by ushomefree
I cannot comment on this. What are peejay's views? I am not sure, for, I did not read the entire thread.
I cannot help you
Originally posted by ushomefree
What problems?
You asked if I was being difficult. You must be having some kind of problem to ask such a question. Of course I wouldn’t know what this problem was, because it is your problem, and not mine. Again another example of how you project your problems onto others.
Originally posted by ushomefree
The Bible is a book, but it's a book inspired by God--the Holy Spirit--"through" man.
And were do you get this information?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Help me understand your view Shaky.... I am not trying to be difficult.
How can I help you?
Originally posted by ushomefreeI think I answered that one 😉
Yes I can, thanks to the Bible. That's the whole point. It was not inspired by men!
Simply put that if God inspired different men that wrote the Bible and didn’t tell them what to write then man being flawed can and will make mistakes. How can man understand what God truly is, God says that I do not exist in time and space how is a man of that time much less this time supposed to comprehend a paradox such as this when everything that we know and see is subject to time and space? This leaves so much room for error on the part of the writer so unless God says write these words it can and is flawed, if God did tell them what to write then it was not “inspired†but “dictated†to man.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The bible says that god works in mysterious ways?
Provide Scripture to be specific. This could refer to anything.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That means we humans cannot understand god?
This is simply not true! Just from a logic stand point, this would indicate that God would not have known--upon the completion of His Word--that man would not be able to understand what was written. Hence, the Bible lacks the ability to "communicate" God's message to mankind. But this is not the case! Does the Bible relay aspects of God that are difficult to understand? Yes! But that does not mean, that man in left in the dark. No! For example, I know, according to the Bible, the God is a "triune" being, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do I understand all the ins-and-outs of that? No! Do I need to, to find meaning (of some sort)? No! In lieu of the Bible, man knows that God is eternal, loving, and a judge. I really do not understand your point. If there is a point, in my opinion, it is rather weak.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Are you saying that the bible is wrong?
No... Shaky.... The Bible is the inspired Word of God. The message is perfect.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
ushomefree:I cannot comment on this. What are peejay's views? I am not sure, for, I did not read the entire thread.
Shakyamunison:
I cannot help you.
Then, why did you bring it up?!
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You asked if I was being difficult. You must be having some kind of problem to ask such a question. Of course I wouldn’t know what this problem was, because it is your problem, and not mine. Again another example of how you project your problems onto others.
You have said nothing practical in lieu of my posts, only posts resulting from misunderstanding and/or misunderstanding of the Bible as a whole. How can I compete with this?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And were do you get this information?
The Bible. Where do you get your information from?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
ushomefree:Help me understand your view Shaky.... I am not trying to be difficult.
Shakyamunison:
How can I help you?
Speak to me in terms of what the Bible states about "itself," and what the Bible "communicates!" But, you really do not know, do you?
Originally posted by ushomefreeThen you would be in disagreement with Peejayd because you would be interpreting the Bible which he says that you shouldn’t do.
This is simply not true! Just from a logic stand point, this would indicate that God would not have known--upon the completion of His Word--that man would not be able to understand what was written. Hence, the Bible lacks the ability to "communicate" God's message to mankind. But this is not the case! Does the Bible relay aspects of God that are difficult to understand? Yes! But that does not mean, that man in left in the dark. No! For example, I know, according to the Bible, the God is a "triune" being, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do I understand all the ins-and-outs of that? No! Do I need to, to find meaning (of some sort)? No! In lieu of the Bible, man knows that God is eternal, loving, and a judge. I really do not understand your point. If there is a point, in my opinion, it is rather weak.
Originally posted by ushomefreeHow can the message be perfect when even the ones in the same faith disagree with what is being said, if they message was perfect wouldn’t it be clear to all those that read it? Wouldn’t there be no doubt as to its message, when people of the same faith and beliefs can not even agree on the same message how can those not of the faith even begin to understand?
No... Shaky.... The Bible is the inspired Word of God. The message is perfect.
Shaky, please, read this:
Originally posted by ushomefreeIf what the link says is true then that would mean that God wrote the Bible and not man.
Shaky, please, read this:
"When people speak of the Bible being inspired, they are referring to the fact that God divinely influenced the human authors of the Scriptures in such a way that what they wrote was the very Word of God."
This is not inspiration but dictation as I have said, then if this is so then how is there any confusion as to the word of God?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Provide Scripture to be specific. This could refer to anything.
No, I do not quote the bible. I am surprised that you do not know what I am talking about.
Originally posted by ushomefree
This is simply not true! Just from a logic stand point, this would indicate that God would not have known--upon the completion of His Word--that man would not be able to understand what was written. Hence, the Bible lacks the ability to "communicate" God's message to mankind. But this is not the case! Does the Bible relay aspects of God that are difficult to understand? Yes! But that does not mean, that man in left in the dark. No! For example, I know, according to the Bible, the God is a "triune" being, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do I understand all the ins-and-outs of that? No! Do I need to, to find meaning (of some sort)? No! In lieu of the Bible, man knows that God is eternal, loving, and a judge. I really do not understand your point. If there is a point, in my opinion, it is rather weak.
It is strange that we cannot understand how the universe works, but can understand the Christian god. To me, that would mean that the universe is far more complex then the Christian god.
If what you say is true, there would be only one interpretation of the bible in the world. However, this is not the case.
Originally posted by ushomefree
No... Shaky.... The Bible is the inspired Word of God. The message is perfect.
See below…
Originally posted by ushomefree
Then, why did you bring it up?!
When did I bring up the fact that you have not read the thread? That is what I cannot help you with.
Originally posted by ushomefree
You have said nothing practical in lieu of my posts, only posts resulting from misunderstanding and/or misunderstanding of the Bible as a whole. How can I compete with this?
Then stop trying to compete.
Originally posted by ushomefree
The Bible. Where do you get your information from?
So, what you are saying to me is that because the bible says it is the word of god that makes it the word of god (circular logic). The Koran also says it is the word of god, therefore, using your logic; it is also the word of god.
Originally posted by ushomefree
Speak to me in terms of what the Bible states about "itself," and what the Bible "communicates!" But, you really do not know, do you?
I know a great deal, but I have no reason to talk about what the bible says about its self. Why would you ask a Buddhist such a question?
Originally posted by ushomefree
Shaky, please, read this:
No thank you.