DarkCrawler is right in this one; Namor IS stronger and a better fighter. Evidence speaks for itself. But if Namor's hit isn't considerably more powerful than that infamous speeding train, he can't hurt Colossus quickly enough. It' Namor here who's racing time here. If Colossus lasts too long, Namor dehydrates and the match is over.
It really wouldnt be the accurate thing to say Namor is a better fighter. Theres no doubt that hes much more experienced, BUT it doesnt make him a better h2h combatant. If you think of all the powerhouses Namor has fought from Hulk, Abomination, Hercules, Thing, Rhino, etc, Namor always slugs it out. Ofcourse hes also faster than them, but then again he hardly ever uses his speed when fighting them. Hes not tactful about it at all. Just start slugging away. If he were to fight Colossus, it WILL be a slug fest, plain and simple.
If Namor has a way to keep wet via suit or water, id give him the edge due to slight h2h speed and take into fact that hed probably land more hit on Colossus than vise versa. If Namor just starts out wet, but has no way to stay at 100%, hed eventually tire and lose. Theres no way hed beat Colossus quick, so thats out of the question. The fight would be like any other fight with a powerhouse. A stalemate if not Namor 6/10.
Originally posted by jrodslam
It really wouldnt be the accurate thing to say Namor is a better fighter. Theres no doubt that hes much more experienced, BUT it doesnt make him a better h2h combatant. If you think of all the powerhouses Namor has fought from Hulk, Abomination, Hercules, Thing, Rhino, etc, Namor always slugs it out. Ofcourse hes also faster than them, but then again he hardly ever uses his speed when fighting them. Hes not tactful about it at all. Just start slugging away. If he were to fight Colossus, it WILL be a slug fest, plain and simple.
But even when slugging it out, you can use skill. It's true that Namor favors old fashioned slugfest more then fancy martial arts, but it doesn't mean that he does not possess fighting skills. Namor CAN do stuff that is silent or effective:
http://tinypic.com/mj4vmp.gif
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/8793/namorfeat1289mi.gif
http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4far.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://x11.putfile.com/11/30708285261.gif
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/8391/namorvscapm30ks.gif
Most of the time, he uses his own particular fighting style, which is kind of a mix of boxing/wrestling. But he still has skill in that style. Punching something doesn't mean that you can't punch something in effective way.
And having more experience does usually mean that you are more skilled. Hence, someone who has studied fighting for ten years will usually school someone who has studied it for one year.
Originally posted by jrodslam
If Namor has a way to keep wet via suit or water, id give him the edge due to slight h2h speed and take into fact that hed probably land more hit on Colossus than vise versa eventually tire and lose. Theres no way hed beat Colossus quick, . If Namor just starts out wet, but has no way to stay at 100%, hedso thats out of the question. The fight would be like any other fight with a powerhouse. A stalemate if not Namor 6/10.
I'll still say that if he's fighting to his fullest, Colossus has no means of touching him, where as Namor can land as many punches as he wants. Colossus can't take a beating like that for a long time, especially if Namor is targeting his head.
If he's wearing his black suit, he will be at full power. The suit recycles the moisture in his body. It is the costume that he currently wears in the comics.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerI just want to point out one thing here DC. When I was a freshman in H.S. I wrestled varsity by beating out a senior for the 140lb. weight class.
way.And having more experience does usually mean that you are more skilled. Hence, someone who has studied fighting for ten years will usually school someone who has studied it for one year.
The guy I beat wrestled varsity for two years prior and I beat him. I beat him by tech. fall too.
What I'm trying to say experience does not always give somebody a edge.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But even when slugging it out, you can use skill. It's true that Namor favors old fashioned slugfest more then fancy martial arts, but it doesn't mean that he does not possess fighting skills. Namor CAN do stuff that is silent or effective:
Yes DC, but you have to also remember that Namor DID use force to beat Griffin. Griffing was pretty much manhandleing him until Namor threw him in the water and pounded him.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://tinypic.com/mj4vmp.gif
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/8793/namorfeat1289mi.gif
http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4far.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://x11.putfile.com/11/30708285261.gif
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/8391/namorvscapm30ks.gifMost of the time, he uses his own particular fighting style, which is kind of a mix of boxing/wrestling. But he still has skill in that style. Punching something doesn't mean that you can't punch something in effective way.
And having more experience does usually mean that you are more skilled. Hence, someone who has studied fighting for ten years will usually school someone who has studied it for one year.
All of those cans are against opponents who are no stronger than 25cl. Im not saying Namor doesnt possess the skills. Namor seems do only use skill(nerve hits and agility) when fighting lower strength tier characters than him. When fighting other powerhouses such as himself, he doesnt do that much. Its mostly slugging.
Sometimes having more experience means youre more skilled depending on what the skill is. Namor is probably more experienced than anyone in Marvel, but is he a more skilled h2h combatant than Captain America, Daredevil, Iron Fist? No. Hes well trained, but doesnt have the expertise and actual skills they have. Youre slightly right about someone who has trained in in fighting 10 years would school someone who has only trained 1 year in fighting. However, if someone trained for 50 years in general fighting and another trained for 25 years in a peticular style or two, they could just as easily school the other who has been training longer overal.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I'll still say that if he's fighting to his fullest, Colossus has no means of touching him, where as Namor can land as many punches as he wants. Colossus can't take a beating like that for a long time, especially if Namor is targeting his head.
Id say that as well, but when Namor fights a powerhouse, he wants to establish that he overpowered them thus resulting to pounding and slugging. Barely using his spped.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
If he's wearing his black suit, he will be at full power. The suit recycles the moisture in his body. It is the costume that he currently wears in the comics.
With that id give him the win more times than not.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I just want to point out one thing here DC. When I was a freshman in H.S. I wrestled varsity by beating out a senior for the 140lb. weight class.The guy I beat wrestled varsity for two years prior and I beat him. I beat him by tech. fall too.
What I'm trying to say experience does not always give somebody a edge.
But when you have more then ten times the experience of another, it usually does. 😬
Originally posted by jrodslam
Yes DC, but you have to also remember that Namor DID use force to beat Griffin. Griffing was pretty much manhandleing him until Namor threw him in the water and pounded him.
Not really, they were pretty much matched in the air. Namor seemed to be only a bit worried that the fight was taking too long.
Originally posted by jrodslam
All of those cans are against opponents who are no stronger than 25cl. Im not saying Namor doesnt possess the skills. Namor seems do only use skill(nerve hits and agility) when fighting lower strength tier characters than him. When fighting other powerhouses such as himself, he doesnt do that much. Its mostly slugging.
The guy who grapples Namor is comparable with Namor's strength.
But my poit was, that you can use skills with slugging. Namor's been doing that for many, many years, and he's learned way more then a trick or two. That is why a boxer is more formidable in combat then a weightlifter. Because they can punch with a right way. Namor has had seventy years to perfect his fighting style. He doesn't just punch blindly (unless he is at another of his rages).
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7346/namorfeat475ib.gif
He slugs stuff, yes, but he does it with skill.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Sometimes having more experience means youre more skilled depending on what the skill is. Namor is probably more experienced than anyone in Marvel, but is he a more skilled h2h combatant than Captain America, Daredevil, Iron Fist? No. Hes well trained, but doesnt have the expertise and actual skills they have. Youre slightly right about someone who has trained in in fighting 10 years would school someone who has only trained 1 year in fighting. However, if someone trained for 50 years in general fighting and another trained for 25 years in a peticular style or two, they could just as easily school the other who has been training longer overal.
But someone who has trained 85 years as compared to someone who has trained roughly 5, has an immesurable edge when it comes to experience. You also forget the fact that Namor has had the best training that Atlantis could offer, and Atlantis is a warrior country.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Id say that as well, but when Namor fights a powerhouse, he wants to establish that he overpowered them thus resulting to pounding and slugging. Barely using his spped.
But since this is a forum fight, he can use his speed...
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Not really, they were pretty much matched in the air. Namor seemed to be only a bit worried that the fight was taking too long.
Ehh. Id say that the Griffing had the slight edge in the air. Thas why Namor wanted to take him to the water.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The guy who grapples Namor is comparable with Namor's strength.
Was he? How much comparable?
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But my poit was, that you can use skills with slugging. Namor's been doing that for many, many years, and he's learned way more then a trick or two. That is why a boxer is more formidable in combat then a weightlifter. Because they can punch with a right way. Namor has had seventy years to perfect his fighting style. He doesn't just punch blindly (unless he is at another of his rages).
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7346/namorfeat475ib.gifHe slugs stuff, yes, but he does it with skill.
Im not saying you cant use skills with slugging. Its just that when Namor is slugging it out with another powerhouse he doesnt use skill much. Just the slugging part. I agree that Namor has learned many things over the years, however there are many whos h2h prowess is greater than his. Of all powerhouses id say hes top though, he just doesnt use it. I never said Namor punches blindly. I know hes a good combatant and very precise at it as well. Hes just not to technical with it.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But someone who has trained 85 years as compared to someone who has trained roughly 5, has an immesurable edge when it comes to experience. You also forget the fact that Namor has had the best training that Atlantis could offer, and Atlantis is a warrior country.
Theres not doubt that Namor has a huge experience edge over anyone he fights. However of those 80 years, how many people has he fought that has the skills like say Daredevil, Captain America, Iron Fist, Shang Chi? Not many. Theres some things even they can school him in when it comes to h2h combat. Just because they are more skilled in a certain area. Not saying that Namor isnt trained in the area, just not as adept as them. His experience, speed and durability can make up for his lack of skills in a certain area.
Of all powerhouses, Namor has the most experience and skill. However it doesnt mean its something he uses against them. Thats whats shown 9/10 when he fights another powerhouse.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Ehh. Id say that the Griffing had the slight edge in the air. Thas why Namor wanted to take him to the water.
Or maybe he wanted to finish it more quickly.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Was he? How much comparable?
Invaders #41 states that Namor is not neccesarily stronger then Master Man, but more savage and beats him with his speed and skill.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im not saying you cant use skills with slugging. Its just that when Namor is slugging it out with another powerhouse he doesnt use skill much. Just the slugging part. I agree that Namor has learned many things over the years, however there are many whos h2h prowess is greater than his. Of all powerhouses id say hes top though, he just doesnt use it. I never said Namor punches blindly. I know hes a good combatant and very precise at it as well. Hes just not to technical with it.
Yes, and aren't his fighting skills what we were discussing here? You don't need to know all the fancy martial arts to be a superb combatant. You can't argue that wrestlers and boxers aren't good in fighting. Namor is a master of his own style of fighting, where as Daredevil beats him in the acrobatic style of fighting, and Captain America has his own combination of Judo and American Boxing. Namor is perfectly capable of being a thinking fighter against powerhouses when the situation requires it. For example, here he is clearly using his speed and agility to dodge Thor and hold the hand that has the Mjolnir so he couldn't smack him in the face with it.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8712/namorvsthor45db.gif
I just think that it isn't fair to say that Namor won't be able to utilize all of his fighting skills in this battle, while Colossus is.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Theres not doubt that Namor has a huge experience edge over anyone he fights. However of those 80 years, how many people has he fought that has the skills like say Daredevil, Captain America, Iron Fist, Shang Chi? Not many. Theres some things even they can school him in when it comes to h2h combat. Just because they are more skilled in a certain area. Not saying that Namor isnt trained in the area, just not as adept as them. His experience, speed and durability can make up for his lack of skills in a certain area.Of all powerhouses, Namor has the most experience and skill. However it doesnt mean its something he uses against them. Thats whats shown 9/10 when he fights another powerhouse.
I never said that Namor is as good as Daredevil or any other martial arts centered character. But he is better then any of them in his own area of fighting.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Or maybe he wanted to finish it more quickly.
Maybe because he knew Griffin had the advantage due to fighting on his terms which was in the air.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Invaders #41 states that Namor is not neccesarily stronger then Master Man, but more savage and beats him with his speed and skill.
Ill concede.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes, and aren't his fighting skills what we were discussing here? You don't need to know all the fancy martial arts to be a superb combatant. You can't argue that wrestlers and boxers aren't good in fighting. Namor is a master of his own style of fighting, where as Daredevil beats him in the acrobatic style of fighting, and Captain America has his own combination of Judo and American Boxing. Namor is perfectly capable of being a thinking fighter against powerhouses when the situation requires it. For example, here he is clearly using his speed and agility to dodge Thor and hold the hand that has the Mjolnir so he couldn't smack him in the face with it.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8712/namorvsthor45db.gifI just think that it isn't fair to say that Namor won't be able to utilize all of his fighting skills in this battle, while Colossus is.
We are discussing fighting skills here, but were also talking about the attributes and skills that are used in combat. Youre talking about Namor's overall skills and what he has at his disposal. Im talking about what he actually uses in combat vs another powerhouse. Im not disagreeing with anything youre saying about his abilities and/or skills, but most of it wouldnt be presend against Colossus. Namor IS capable of being a thinking fighter against a powerhouse. But thats ONLY when he starts to get dehydrated or realizes that he cant outmuscle his opponent. When hes using his speed to dodge Thor, its natural for him because hes probably naturally faster than Thor AND hes fighting underwater to where Thor is less mobile as to where its Namors element. On land, theyd just go back and forth.
Im not saying that Namor WONT be able to use his fighting skills in battle vs Colossus. He could use them anytime he wishes. What i am saying is that he probably wouldnt use the skills and just decides to slug it out instead. Skills and smarts may come into play if a.) He starts to get dehydrated or b.) Realizes that Colossus is stronger than him and needs a way to beat him.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I never said that Namor is as good as Daredevil or any other martial arts centered character. But he is better then any of them in his own area of fighting.
Whats Namors area of fighting? I figure hes a brawler/grappler.
Either way, i think we pretty much agree for the most part. I just dont see Namor using much skill in battle vs Colossus besides slugging it out.
Originally posted by jrodslam
We are discussing fighting skills here, but were also talking about the attributes and skills that are used in combat. Youre talking about Namor's overall skills and what he has at his disposal. Im talking about what he actually uses in combat vs another powerhouse. Im not disagreeing with anything youre saying about his abilities and/or skills, but most of it wouldnt be presend against Colossus. Namor IS capable of being a thinking fighter against a powerhouse. But thats ONLY when he starts to get dehydrated or realizes that he cant outmuscle his opponent. When hes using his speed to dodge Thor, its natural for him because hes probably naturally faster than Thor AND hes fighting underwater to where Thor is less mobile as to where its Namors element. On land, theyd just go back and forth.Im not saying that Namor WONT be able to use his fighting skills in battle vs Colossus. He could use them anytime he wishes. What i am saying is that he probably wouldnt use the skills and just decides to slug it out instead. Skills and smarts may come into play if a.) He starts to get dehydrated or b.) Realizes that Colossus is stronger than him and needs a way to beat him.
But slugging it out is part of Namor's style of fighting, and after thousands of fights where he has done so, he is extremely skilled in it. Like I've said before, every punch that he makes will not be aimed blindly, but in the right place. It might look that he is simply firing the punches everywhere, but with skills that have been honed for seventy years, this isn't the fact.
After all the examples of Namor's punching force I have seen, I find it hard to believe that he won't be able to beat the living crap out of Colossus (especially when he has been hurt by lesser forces). And after all the speed feats of Namor I have seen, I find it even harder to believe that Colossus will lay a hand on Namor. That is why Namor will win the fight, may it be a fight where they use all their fighting skills, or just a simple slugfest. Because Namor's experience on both types of fighting dwarf those of Colossus, and he has faced opponents that are many times more powerful with Colossus. And Colossus has never faced anyone of Namor's calibre.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerWasn't Namor knocked out from Caps shield? Or wasn't he sliced open from Wolveirne?After all the examples of Namor's punching force I have seen, I find it hard to believe that he won't be able to beat the living crap out of Colossus (especially when he has been hurt by lesser forces). And after
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wasn't Namor knocked out from Caps shield? Or wasn't he sliced open from Wolveirne?
He was only sliced open from Wolverine after he had stabbed him (which has a lot more force then slashing). And Namor didn't fight like Namor in the issue anyway.
And Namor was only knocked out by Cap's shield by Thing. And prior that shield knocking out, Namor had been brainwashed, fought Iron Man and was dehydrated by Human Torch.
Originally posted by DarkCrawlerDidn't She-Hulk knock him on his @ss@(Teenage or not)
He was only sliced open from Wolverine after he had stabbed him (which has a lot more force then slashing). And Namor didn't fight like Namor in the issue anyway.And Namor was only knocked out by Cap's shield by Thing. And prior that shield knocking out, Namor had been brainwashed, fought Iron Man and was dehydrated by Human Torch.
Originally posted by snoopdoggShe dropped an object on him.
Didn't She-Hulk knock him on his @ss@(Teenage or not)
And I refuse to believe that the...guy...in that comic was Namor.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sensationalshehulk22156it.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sensationalshehulk22169ug.jpg
NAMOR DOES NOT TALK OR ACT LIKE THAT!
