Here's an LDS scripture that I'll throw into the mix. Make of it what you will.
2 Nephi 2 11-6
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.
14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.
15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.
16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.
Originally posted by Black RobWell, you either need the concept, or you say (and that's what I'd do if I was God) "everythin is good" (or at least everything in this world he created, that might still leave evil to be outside of that world, but at least everything we know is good....
how can you have hot without cold? how can you have big without small? For one extreme to be defined you need the opposite.
Originally posted by Bardock42it would be impossible for everything to be good because then there would be nothing to contrast with.For something to be good something has to be bad just to understand what good is. One can not exist without the other.
Well, you either need the concept, or you say (and that's what I'd do if I was God) "everythin is good" (or at least everything in this world he created, that might still leave evil to be outside of that world, but at least everything we know is good....
Originally posted by Janus Marius
So you're arguing like the old Platonic ideals of extremes? Take this for instance...Love, Lust, Hatred... All basically the same time of visceral feeling of attachment. However, hatred is negative and extreme. Lust is positive but extreme. Love is moderation.
I would agree with that.
Do you remember that movie "Dark Cristal"? At the end the two groups came together and became one. I think that was a good illustration, although simplistic, of the true nature of good and evil.
Re: A thought on the idea of an all-good God...
Originally posted by Janus MariusGod always knows what will happen next or what will happen if this happened or anything. He cant interfere wit people lives because he has them use there objects well in life. If they use those objects god left us in charge wit that will help us out, you will do things right. This isnt litreally though. God helps us if you belive. He dosent really have a mind of his own. He does what is right always and always makes the right decision alwys. Anything he decides or dosent decide in doing, im sure its a very good reason.
Here's something I thought of...Let's pressupose first that we're trying to prove a God that is all-good. Meaning, he is only good, and not evil.
1. God is all-good.
2. Good is determined by being contrasted with evil.
3. Therefore, for good to be defined, evil must exist.
4. If God is all-good, then evil exists.
5. A being who is all-good would want to exterminate evil.
6. Yet evil exists.
7. Therefore, either God is not all-good or he is helpless to stop evil.
At this point let us resume with the assumption that God is still all-good. If this is the case, he must be unable to prevent the evil. Now, before the religious doctrine starts sprouting out of the woodwork, let me add an analogy to help this argument (To better put it into context):
Suppose that God is a lifeguard or capable adult laying on the beach. A child comes along. God warns the child of the dangers of the water. But the child goes in anyways. The tide begins to pull the child out (Or a shark appears, jellyfish, current, etc.). Now, could anyone believe that God would be all-good if he did NOT run out and save that child?
Even from his or her own ignorance?
Just curious.
Example- You were about to go t a vacation to the Bahamas, but you arm brakes causing you to miss the flight and couldnt go. God did it because the plane that was on its way to Bahamas, the same flight you were gonna go crashed. God helped you because you belived in him and you used the objects he gave you to suceed in life. He helps but you must see things also, so he leaves with that..
Originally posted by JacopeXWhat about the others on the plane? why didnt he warn them?Are those people all just sinners who deserved to die?What about the guy who survives,is he better than the ones that died simply because he "believed" he would?Why couldnt something good happen to you to make you not go on the plane?Why does it have to be something bad for you not to go on the plane? What if you die the next day because you get hit by a car exiting the hospital?
God always knows what will happen next or what will happen if this happened or anything. He cant interfere wit people lives because he has them use there objects well in life. If they use those objects god left us in charge wit that will help us out, you will do things right. This isnt litreally though. God helps us if you belive. He dosent really have a mind of his own. He does what is right always and always makes the right decision alwys. Anything he decides or dosent decide in doing, im sure its a very good reason.Example- You were about to go t a vacation to the Bahamas, but you arm brakes causing you to miss the flight and couldnt go. God did it because the plane that was on its way to Bahamas, the same flight you were gonna go crashed. God helped you because you belived in him and you used the objects he gave you to suceed in life. He helps but you must see things also, so he leaves with that..
And the ultimate question-Why did the plane crash at all? To prove that everything works out in the end? Several people die a horrible death,but one guy doesnt,so that alone proves God's purely benevolent?
Originally posted by Black RobOf course he probably did warn others. Other than that, they couldve jus seen things or went wit there counciess if they felt somethin wuz wrong. Would you rather die or get your arm broken. Im sure he warned others and not only one person. The plane crash is very unknown why it would crash. God is the one that knows if the plane will crash or not. He proably knew that the pilot might of fainted or something. He cant do notyhin about but help others by havin them not get in. And as for the pilot, he is probably ment to be in heaven wit god. I donno how to explain for the pilot
What about the others on the plane? why didnt he warn them?Are those people all just sinners who deserved to die?What about the guy who survives,is he better than the ones that died simply because he "believed" he would?Why couldnt something good happen to you to make you not go on the plane?Why does it have to be something bad for you not to go on the plane? What if you die the next day because you get hit by a car exiting the hospital?And the ultimate question-Why did the plane crash at all? To prove that everything works out in the end? Several people die a horrible death,but one guy doesnt,so that alone proves God's purely benevolent?
wait, I've got something about the devil.
[list=1]
[*]the devil is all-evil
[*]the devil tortures those who are against god
[*]when christians torture those who are against god, it's classed as good because it's for god
[*]so if the devil does things for god, he should be good
[*]but the devil is also the abscence of god
[*]so if the devil is doing bad things for good, god should be doing good things for bad [/list]
right? Or is it made up? Which makes more sense?
Originally posted by debbiejohey that never occured to me 😱
But whose gonna torture the devil, isn't he supposed to be punished in the end?
but, evil is something that happens. It's different to all people, that's why I hate religion, they try to control you and make you think the way they want you to think.