once again ty, and the fact is he won not one but two wars, including anhilating the sith. as for being outnumbered 5-1 if you remember they were still beating the republic, no scratch that raping the republic, it's said time and time again throught both kotor's, if it wasn't for Revan the Republic would have lost, they were getting anhilated but revan came back and won it for them. As for his singlehandedly winning the second war, just play kotor.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, we can say that Ulic is better then Yoda with a large amount of support. Not necessarily proof, but support is still support.We saw Ulic stalemate Exar sometime before Exar was a forcegod and after he lost to Vodo on Dantooine. Now, we can't prove that Exar increased between fighting Vodo on Dantooine and when he fought Ulic on that one planet(can't remember the name). It would be very strange however, if Exar didn't increase before that fight but became several times stronger in the space of time between stalemating Ulic and pwning Vodo.
Furthermore, we can't prove that Ulic got better after that fight with Exar, but it wouldn't make any sense if he didn't.
So, Ulic should be a good bit better then Vodo, who is commonly believed to be better then Yoda.
So the stronger of the Jedi is out of the picture.
Like I said, it's not proof, but there is plenty of support that indicates that Ulic is better then Yoda by a good amount.
Someone else can make an argument for Revan.
Not quite.
We see Exar get WTFpwned by Vodo in two moves. Now if you're implying that Exar improved to such levels that he became stronger than Vodo in a couple of months, with nothing behind that claim at all. . .
The only improvements we see Exar make are his acquiring of the amulet and the practice of a few Sith techniques. I'd say that Kun, by this time, has started down the path to power, but hasn't become nearly as able as Vodo yet. And this actually makes some sense, as Exar only truly delved into the Dark arts after his crowing as Dark Lord of the Sith. Before that, he'd only just begun to experiment with the new power available to him; otherwise, he would have wiped out Ulic on the spot, easily. The reason he improved so much later in lightsaber ability was because he'd created a new lightsaber, and a new style. For that time, a unique style, and one that Vodo had no defense against.
So no, I wouldn't say that Ulic is above Vodo; in fact, he's probably rivaling him at best.
agreed, there's absolutley no concrete evidence, I'm merely saying they were implied to be extremely powerful. Revan and ullic were the most badass of they're time, as i said many times no one could make an accurate comparison as we simply don't know enough, the only comparison that could be made is that of accomplishments, otherwise it's just speculation and bias.
Originally posted by Faunus
Not quite.We see Exar get WTFpwned by Vodo in two moves. Now if you're implying that Exar improved to such levels that he became stronger than Vodo in a couple of months, with nothing behind that claim at all. . .
The only improvements we see Exar make are his acquiring of the amulet and the practice of a few Sith techniques. I'd say that Kun, by this time, has started down the path to power, but hasn't become nearly as able as Vodo yet. And this actually makes some sense, as Exar only truly delved into the Dark arts after his crowing as Dark Lord of the Sith. Before that, he'd only just begun to experiment with the new power available to him; otherwise, he would have wiped out Ulic on the spot, easily. The reason he improved so much later in lightsaber ability was because he'd created a new lightsaber, and a new style. For that time, a unique style, and one that Vodo had no defense against.
So no, I wouldn't say that Ulic is above Vodo; in fact, he's probably rivaling him at best.
Exar already had his amulet by the time he fought Ulic though. So Exar has already had one of these large improvements of power by this point. And like I said, shouldn't Ulic have improved after this point also? He'd just gotten an amulet and had no idea how to use it. Furthermore, had Ulic really started using the Darkside by that point either? I took him not killing Nomi as a sign that he wasn't evil yet. At least not totally.
According to IKC, Exar was still doing very well against Vodo even with his regular lightsaber. And if Exar's style made that much of a difference I would be really surprised. How would Exar have made a style with no defense against it to the point that a 600 year old Jedi couldn't see it so fast? Vodo still knew all of the basics of how Exar fought, as he taught him how to use a lightsaber.
Like I said, there really is no proof for Ulic being great. I just find it very unlikely that he isn't at least as good as Yoda. Personally, I've always put him about equal with NJO Luke, perhaps a little better.
Exar already had his amulet by the time he fought Ulic though. So Exar has already had one of these large improvements of power by this point. And like I said, shouldn't Ulic have improved after this point also? He'd just gotten an amulet and had no idea how to use it. Furthermore, had Ulic really started using the Darkside by that point either? I took him not killing Nomi as a sign that he wasn't evil yet. At least not totally.
Ulic never turned as completely as Kun did, when he send Aleema to die he felt sad about it, after he killed Cay he completly collapsed and just turned back to the Light Side of the force. And without any sings to show he has improved, or improved much why should we say he has?
According to IKC, Exar was still doing very well against Vodo even with his regular lightsaber. And if Exar's style made that much of a difference I would be really surprised. How would Exar have made a style with no defense against it to the point that a 600 year old Jedi couldn't see it so fast? Vodo still knew all of the basics of how Exar fought, as he taught him how to use a lightsaber.
IKC would be wrong, Vodo took Exar down in a few seconds, then when Kun was down and Vodo had no reason to continue the fight Exar drew a second lightsaber towards him and smashed Vodo his stick. The fight stopped immediately after that, Vodo was clearly greater then Kun at this time. And Vodo could still see the movements of Kun his lightsaber, he just couldn't block the power of two lightsabers, which is probably exactly what broke his stick not Kun his great lightsaber skills.
Like I said, there really is no proof for Ulic being great. I just find it very unlikely that he isn't at least as good as Yoda. Personally, I've always put him about equal with NJO Luke, perhaps a little better.
But completely without evidence... He hasn't been shown to do anything up to the level of Mace or Dooku, saying he's greater then either one of them is an assumption without prove. To rate him as high as NJO Luke is even more so.
You rate him equal to or better than NJO Luke? Wow.. Well I guess your opinion as mine is NJO Luke=Kun, yet neither one of us can prove it. And I'm looking at the scans right now, Kun did get beat in a matter of seconds. I would put Ulic on par with Windu in terms of saber combat. We know very little to nothing about his force power.
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
It shows that they were powerful enough to accomplish greater things then yoda or mace did, implying that they'r emore powerful. If Revan could singlehandedly win two wars he was supposed to lose, with inferior solidiers, then chances are they're more powerful then two jedi who along with an entire council and a larger number of superior solidiers who actually never won the war they should have in the first place.
Originally posted by Faunus
Whoa. Weren't you just saying that Ulic was greater than Yoda? Then ''there's no proof'', and now he's above Luke? Make up your mind. . .
What are you talking about? Yes, I'm saying Ulic is greater the Yoda. I'm saying that there is no solid proof that he isn't stronger then Yoda, but that I would be VERY surprised if he isn't.
I then said that I think he is as good, maybe slightly better then Luke, but that is just my own personal opinion. I can't prove that.
tdtd, that was a typo on my part. Let me restate it. There is no solid proof that I can find that shows he is greater the Yoda, but from what I have seen I would be very surprised if he isn't infact stronger.
Faunus, it's only my opinion that Ulic is equal to NJO Luke, but how is my support for Ulic being better then Yoda useless in a debate?