Tournament Bonus Round Exhibition Match: TheKhan vs. grey fox

Originally posted by TheKahn
I apologize about the lack of scans on my part. I really didn't follow the New Mutants when most of these characters were featured and there isn't a whole lot besides bios on the Internet about them. 🙁

But I did manage to find an example of the type of walls that grey fox's exploding bayonets and flash-bang grenades will have to get threw. Now keep in mind that Magma was only making this one to transport herself but it is easily three to four feet thick and made of solid rock. Of course the ones she'll make in the fight will be much wider:

Four feet , pfft .

Here we have Anderson breaking through specially made, bullet proof (at least an inch thick) Tektite Glass with relative ease.

...And here he is stabbing through a wall (that has to be more then 4 inches thick ) with ease.

First of all I doubt may will even get to may walls as Sunspot is shooting a large blast of concussive energy at grey fox's team. As all of the projectiles will come from the sames area, Sunspot will be able to deflect most if not all of them (or at the very least slow them down considerably).

....And who said anything about from a single area ?

Anderson's going to be running from left to right and various other positions , a literal rain.

Secondly, Sunspot is already absorbing both heat and light from the lava around him. So any additional heat and/or light you produce will be absorbed by him with that coming off of the lava.

We have already discussed this , it doesn't detail what kind of light or heat. Hell it doesn't even detail it in his powers that he can absorb other forms aside from solar .

Third, the only hope you have of them actually being effective is if they can somehow take out Magma. Not only is she behind solid rock and encased in rock but she has Sunspot to absorb any possible disorientating light and her rock walls/suit will protect her from any shrapnel or debris.

I have already said how the rock walls are ineffective , and that Sunspot isn't a very good defense , considering that he's busy blocking the bayonets . Hell a bayonet may inadvertently kill the guy....

The flash bang will get through . Your team will become blind and you will lose .

Originally posted by grey fox
Four feet , pfft .

Here we have Anderson breaking through specially made, bullet proof (at least an inch thick) Tektite Glass with relative ease.

...And here he is stabbing through a wall (that has to be more then 4 inches thick ) with ease.

eer

First of all, throwing a bayonet through glass and stabbing a bayonet through a four inch wall (which from you scan appears to be a normal wall which anyone could force a bayonet through) from close range are nowhere near the same thing as throwing bayonets through a multiple 4 foot solid rock walls from a mile away.

Glass is naturally a very brittle material that has to be specially reinforced to withstand any serious impact unlike solid rock. Again, a few millimeters of glass isn't the same as several feet of solid rock. ❌

And the wall in your scan looks to be simply wood framed with either Sheetrock or plaster coverings. Anybody could put a sharp object through one.

Originally posted by grey fox

....And who said anything about from a single area ?

Anderson's going to be running from left to right and various other positions , a literal rain.

This if the first you have mentioned of this tactic, so allow me to respond. You must take into consideration where this fight is taking place: "a very bouncy trampoline" anyone who has ever been on or owns a trampoline (as I do) can tell you it is impossible to run across one. The impact of your steps deflect the surface and send you flying into the air. All Anderson's attempt to run across the trampoline would result in is him becoming an easier airborne target for Sunspot.

Originally posted by grey fox

We have already discussed this , it doesn't detail what kind of light or heat. Hell it doesn't even detail it in his powers that he can absorb other forms aside from solar .

How much more detail do you want? It says He is also capable now of absorbing other forms of heat and light besides solar power and then gives the issues where he gained that ability (X-Force Annual #3 through X-Force #43). If its is a different form of light or heat other than solar, he can now absorb it. Simple as that. ✅

Also you have yet to explain how the flash grenades will even make it a mile to my team (where the light from them will be absorbed by Sunspot). Anderson might could get his bayonets that far but you've haven't shown that Slade could get his grenades anywhere close to that distance.

And with the walls and their personal defenses, my team is safe from any of your distance attacks, regardless.

Originally posted by grey fox

I have already said how the rock walls are ineffective , and that Sunspot isn't a very good defense , considering that he's busy blocking the bayonets . Hell a bayonet may inadvertently kill the guy....

The flash bang [b]will get through . Your team will become blind and you will lose . [/B]

No, you've said how glass and wood-framed walls would be ineffective at close range not four foot solid rock walls at a mile. Sunspot will easily be able to target Anderson as he if flying through the air trying to throw his bayonets. And again, he can raise the temperature around his body to such a degree that bullets melt before they touch his skin. You bayonets will pose no danger to him.

The flash-bangs won't even make it to my team, if they did, Sunspot would absorb the light form them, and your team will still be roasted alive.

damn kahns good

Originally posted by TheKahn
eer

First of all, throwing a bayonet through [b]glass and stabbing a bayonet through a four inch wall (which from you scan appears to be a normal wall which anyone could force a bayonet through) from close range are nowhere near the same thing as throwing bayonets through a multiple 4 foot solid rock walls from a mile away.

Glass is naturally a very brittle material that has to be specially reinforced to withstand any serious impact unlike solid rock. Again, a few millimeters of glass isn't the same as several feet of solid rock. ❌

And the wall in your scan looks to be simply wood framed with either Sheetrock or plaster coverings. Anybody could put a sharp object through one.

This if the first you have mentioned of this tactic, so allow me to respond. You must take into consideration where this fight is taking place: "a very bouncy trampoline" anyone who has ever been on or owns a trampoline (as I do) can tell you it is impossible to run across one. The impact of your steps deflect the surface and send you flying into the air. All Anderson's attempt to run across the trampoline would result in is him becoming an easier airborne target for Sunspot.

How much more detail do you want? It says He is also capable now of absorbing other forms of heat and light besides solar power and then gives the issues where he gained that ability (X-Force Annual #3 through X-Force #43). If its is a different form of light or heat other than solar, he can now absorb it. Simple as that. ✅

Also you have yet to explain how the flash grenades will even make it a mile to my team (where the light from them will be absorbed by Sunspot). Anderson might could get his bayonets that far but you've haven't shown that Slade could get his grenades anywhere close to that distance.

And with the walls and their personal defenses, my team is safe from any of your distance attacks, regardless.

No, you've said how glass and wood-framed walls would be ineffective at close range not four foot solid rock walls at a mile. Sunspot will easily be able to target Anderson as he if flying through the air trying to throw his bayonets. And again, he can raise the temperature around his body to such a degree that bullets melt before they touch his skin. You bayonets will pose no danger to him.

The flash-bangs won't even make it to my team, if they did, Sunspot would absorb the light form them, and your team will still be roasted alive. [/B]

That wasn't basic glass , otherwise it would shatter from the impact (it was dropped a mile or two above the ground) also i wouldn't rely too heavily on the text as it was translated by a crappy group who got the word butler and battler mixed up.

You can move on a trampoline , sure you bounce a little , so maybe he slows down a bit so it only reverberates slowly .

Hell with all this arguing going about the bayonets i'll send Deathstroke up their with the grenade , after all his uber reflexes and super-brain allow him to see things in slow mo so he can dodge any attacks thrown his way before letting off the flashbang.

Originally posted by grey fox
That wasn't basic glass , otherwise it would shatter from the impact (it was dropped a mile or two above the ground) also i wouldn't rely [b]too heavily on the text as it was translated by a crappy group who got the word butler and battler mixed up.[/B]

No matter the kind of glass it was, a few millimeters of it are not comparable to several feet of solid rock.

Originally posted by grey fox

You [b]can move on a trampoline , sure you bounce a little , so maybe he slows down a bit so it only reverberates slowly . [/B]

Move: yes ✅, run: no ❌.

Originally posted by grey fox

Hell with all this arguing going about the bayonets i'll send Deathstroke up their with the grenade , after all his uber reflexes and super-brain allow him to see things in slow mo so he can dodge any attacks thrown his way before letting off the flashbang.

You forget my main method of attack (can't really blame you as we've been debating details for a while) but remember that a wave of lava is heading towards you team at 60+ mph. So in less than a minute of the fight starting my lava will have reached your team. So Slade actually running towards my side will only serve to get him killed quicker as he'll never get into range before hitting the lava.

Originally posted by TheKahn
No matter the kind of glass it was, a few millimeters of it are not comparable to several feet of solid rock.

Move: yes ✅, run: no ❌.

You forget my main method of attack (can't really blame you as we've been debating details for a while) but remember that a wave of lava is heading towards you team at 60+ mph. So in less than a minute of the fight starting my lava will have reached your team. So Slade actually running towards my side will only serve to get him killed quicker as he'll never get into range before hitting the lava.

Can your lava move faster then impulse , no .

Can slade , yes .

The bayonets are distraction while slade zips up their and let's off the flashbang , your team are blinded and as such Magma wont use/generate magma out of fear of killing her team-mates. My team then cross the cap and kick your teams ass .

Caps shield can penetrate that rock , the guy has (around) class five strength and thrown hard enough the disc could rip through it/make a very big indent .

Originally posted by grey fox
Can your lava move faster then impulse , no .

Can slade , yes .

Do you have a number for that speed? My great Aunt Ethel who has an artificial hip and a clubbed foot could run faster than Impulse depending on the speed he is going (if I had a great Aunt Ethel that is....).

Originally posted by grey fox

The bayonets are distraction while slade zips up their and let's off the flashbang , your team are blinded and as such Magma wont use/generate magma out of fear of killing her team-mates. My team then cross the cap and kick your teams ass .

First of all Magma doesn't have to worry about killing her teammates, Sunspot is in the air, Husk is in diamond form (safe from the heat of that the lava can produce), and Surge is on Husk's back. So she can generate lava to her hearts content and not worry about anybody else.

Secondly even if Slade gets close enough to use his flash-grenades Sunspot would absorb the light (if the rock wall in front of my team doesn't block all of it).

And lastly as Magma is encased in rock all she would really have to do is cover her eyes with rock and she'd be completely safe (not that it'll come to that anyway). 😄

Originally posted by grey fox

Caps shield can penetrate that rock , the guy has (around) class five strength and thrown hard enough the disc could rip through it/make a [b]very big indent . [/B]

Once again by the time Cap makes it a quater of the distance his legs will have already been burnted to stumps. 😈 And how will Cap know where along the wall to throw his shield? Its not like he can see through it and tell where my team is anyway. 😕

Ok , visibility is pretty clears considering it's a clear stretch . A rock wall is not going to hard to miss.

2 . Magma (even if she doesn't seem to be worried about inadvertently killing her team-mates, which you seem to honestly think) can't accurately control the movement of the lava without her vision . Which you've just gotten rid off due to you 'block the grenade' trick.

3. I'll check the speed Impusle was estimated at going , but i know he was running which put's him above sixty's , considering that walking for these guy's get's them at like 60-70 average.

Originally posted by grey fox
Ok , visibility is pretty clears considering it's a clear stretch . A rock wall is not going to hard to miss.

Cap's shield is only about 3 feet in diameter and the wall will be considerable wider than that. So he has the problem of where on the wall to throw his shield. While, he'll see the wall, he won't know where my team is behind the wall.

Originally posted by grey fox
2 . Magma (even if she doesn't seem to be worried about inadvertently killing her team-mates, which you seem to honestly think) can't accurately control the movement of the lava without her vision . Which you've just gotten rid off due to you 'block the grenade' trick.

She doesn't have to worry about her teammates (remember that Husk and Surge are behind her and Sunspot above). She can keep her eyes open during the fight and would only need to shield them if/when Slade attempts to get close enough to use his grenades. Sunspot would be able to give her ample warning given his vantage point in the air, just to be safe as he'll absorb the light anyway 😈 (accuracy really isn't an issue as all she has to do is send the lava forward).

Originally posted by grey fox

3. I'll check the speed Impusle was estimated at going , but i know he was running which put's him above sixty's , considering that walking for these guy's get's them at like 60-70 average.

I always thought he just had the enhanced reflexes. I could by him being quick enough to match Impulse for a short distance but I don't think his top speed is that fast (but I'm willing to reconsider depending on the scan you're talking about)

Originally posted by TheKahn
Cap's shield is only about 3 feet in diameter and the wall will be considerable wider than that. So he has the problem of where on the wall to throw his shield. While, he'll see the wall, he won't know where my team is behind the wall.

She doesn't have to worry about her teammates (remember that Husk and Surge are behind her and Sunspot above). She can keep her eyes open during the fight and would only need to shield them if/when Slade attempts to get close enough to use his grenades. Sunspot would be able to give her ample warning given his vantage point in the air, just to be safe as he'll absorb the light anyway 😈 (accuracy really isn't an issue as all she has to do is send the lava forward).

I always thought he just had the enhanced reflexes. I could by him being quick enough to match Impulse for a short distance but I don't think his top speed is that fast (but I'm willing to reconsider depending on the scan you're talking about)

Unfortunately enough i don't have that scan ,'ll search for it. But i known the chain of events . He runs after impulse and catches up to him before blowing out his kneecaps.

With enough strength behind it it wont matter what part of the wall is hit.

And I've already mentioned how sunspot's light absorption is bunk. Not only that but what kind of light can he absorb , it never says all forms of light so my flashbang could be on the spectrum that he cant absorb.

Originally posted by grey fox
Unfortunately enough i don't have that scan ,'ll search for it. But i known the chain of events . He runs after impulse and [b]catches up to him before blowing out his kneecaps.[/B]

Yeah, I know what you're talking about (it seems a little like PIS 😬) and the bio only says he has enhansed reflexes. Anyway, just to be safe I'll send Surge (who does have superspeed) ahead of the lava wave to head off any Slade charges. She has the speed and firepower to distract him long enough for my purposes (he doesn't know how she fights like he does the Flashes which is his main advantage). If he does manaage to kill her it will be too late for him to get close enough to launch any type of attack.

Again the trampoline will limit just how fast either can effectively travel, but Surge should still have the advantage.

Originally posted by grey fox

With enough strength behind it it wont matter what part of the wall is hit.

Perhaps, but my point was that if he didn't know where my team is behind the wall throwing his shield through it isn't going to accomplish anything. If he misses he just losses his shield.

Originally posted by grey fox

And I've already mentioned how sunspot's light absorption is bunk. Not only that but what kind of light can he absorb , it never says [b]all forms of light so my flashbang could be on the spectrum that he cant absorb. [/B]

Flash bang grenades produce very bright light along the visible section of the EM spectrum (with wavelengths between 7000-4000 Angstroms). This is what is ment when "light" is refered to in general. Now the bio says he can now absorb light (from non-solar sources, even though "solar light" and "non-solar light" are really the same energy) and lists the issue numbers where he gained that ability.

Reguardless, the rock wall will still block the light and Sunspot at the least could given ample warining for Magma to protect herself (hell she could even use Husk as a human/diamond shield 😈.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Yeah, I know what you're talking about (it seems a little like PIS 😬) and the bio only says he has enhansed reflexes. Anyway, just to be safe I'll send Surge (who does have superspeed) ahead of the lava wave to head off any Slade charges. She has the speed and firepower to distract him long enough for my purposes (he doesn't know how she fights like he does the Flashes which is his main advantage). If he does manaage to kill her it will be too late for him to get close enough to launch any type of attack.

Again the trampoline will limit just how fast either can effectively travel, but Surge should still have the advantage.

Perhaps, but my point was that if he didn't know where my team is behind the wall throwing his shield through it isn't going to accomplish anything. If he misses he just losses his shield.

Flash bang grenades produce very bright light along the visible section of the EM spectrum (with wavelengths between 7000-4000 Angstroms). This is what is ment when "light" is refered to in general. Now the bio says he can now absorb light (from non-solar sources, even though "solar light" and "non-solar light" are really the same energy) and lists the issue numbers where he gained that ability.

Reguardless, the rock wall will still block the light and Sunspot at the least could given ample warining for Magma to protect herself (hell she could even use Husk as a human/diamond shield 😈.

So suddenly the rules affect me but not you ?

You say that Slade will be limited , but surge wont ?

Also slade dominates surge , She has little to none combat skills (if she does their still nothing on slades) , her speed isn't a great help . Slade was owning flash's flash's ! quicksilver (fastest speed orientated character in marvel) couldn't even touch flash so what the hell is surge going to do ? Also , surge is now on foot, in the middle of a h2h situation with deathstroke , and your still closing the Magma in .

Magma must really not like her teammates, considering that your going to roast one alive. I doubt she'd have the balls for that kind of action.

Originally posted by grey fox
So suddenly the rules affect me but not you ?

You say that Slade will be limited , but surge wont ?

I said that both will be limited in their speed by the trampoline surface but at the least Surge should be able to hop faster than Slade given her superspeed. jump

Originally posted by grey fox

Also slade dominates surge , She has little to none combat skills (if she does their still nothing on slades) , her speed isn't a great help . Slade was owning flash's [b]flash's ! quicksilver (fastest speed orientated character in marvel) couldn't even touch flash so what the hell is surge going to do ? Also , surge is now on foot, in the middle of a h2h situation with deathstroke , and your still closing the Magma in .

Magma must really not like her teammates, considering that your going to roast one alive. I doubt she'd have the balls for that kind of action. [/B]

Magma will do what she is told and she will like it 😠

I agree that Slade outmatches Surge easily but all I need her to do is slow him down not actually beat him. Her speed, reflexes, and electricity should allow her to give him some trouble. Either Slade kills her or the lava does, sacrifices must be made (if Slade doesn't kill her and she makes it to your side I might send Sunspot to get her at the end of the fight)

Grey fox im tilting but not leaning toward you yet, give it another push lets go!

grey fox's strategy depends on two factors:
Anderson's bayonets and Slade's grenades

As to the bayonets:
1. There will be several solid rock walls protecting my team from them
2. Sunspot will be actively deflecting them with concussive blasts aimed at Anderson
3. The personal defenses of Magma (encased in rock), Husk (diamond form), and Sunspot (heat shield) will be more than enough to protect them from any stray shrapnel or debris

As to Slade's grenades:
1. Again their is are rock wall protecting my team from the light and concussive force of the grenades
2. Sunspot is above my team to absorb any light that might get through and to warn Magma to shield her eyes if Slade gets close enough to use them (just to be safe)
3. Husk will be standing in front of Magma for an additional line of defense
4. Surge is advancing (as best she can along the bouncy trampoline surface) ahead of the lava to slow down Slade if he attempts to get into grenade range. That is assuming that Slade can get into effective range before the lava wave covers too much of the arena floor (at 30 seconds into the battle half of the arena floor will already be covered)

My attack plan consists of having Magma flood the floor of the arena with lava (as I have shown this will take less than 60 seconds). She is able to both generate lava, summon it from the sides of the arena, summon it from the floor of the arena, and use that which she gathered on her body during prep time. In other words she clearly has plenty of material to work with.

She will erect several walls to protect herself and send a wave of lava towards grey fox's team. This layer does not have to be very thick at all as it is upwards of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit and thanks to it's viscosity it will travel very quickly. Once the floor is covered she will send it up the walls and ceilings of the arena as well.

Sunspot is floating above her for the previously stated reasons, Husk is in front of Magma for added protection, and Surge is deployed in front of the lava wave.

grey fox's team lacks the flyers to avoid the lava and the distance between our team prevents him from launching an effective attack before his team is killed. The only one who may survive is Spiderman and as he literally cannot touch Sunspot or Magma and cannot hurt Husk he isn't a threat. For as soon as the walls and ceilings are covered in lava, his is dead anyway (no attachment points for his webs and no place left to land).

The fight will be effectively over after the first minute of combat and that is not enough time for grey fox's team to cover the initial distance separating each team and/or overcome my teams numerous defenses.

Originally posted by TheKahn
[B]grey fox's strategy depends on two factors:
Anderson's bayonets and Slade's grenades
B]

1. There will be several solid rock walls protecting my team from them

Which i have already proven can be broken through , or at least be pin cushioned enough for cap's shield to break.

2. Sunspot will be actively deflecting them with concussive blasts aimed at Anderson

Which he cant do since Anderson is moving left /right/forward backwards. throwing up to a hundred bayonets at a time , these bayonets are all explosive and if he wanted to he could simply throw a few exploding bayonet chains along with the usual bayonets.

3. The personal defenses of Magma (encased in rock), Husk (diamond form), and Sunspot (heat shield) will be more than enough to protect them from any stray shrapnel or debris

Magma - Can be broken

Husk - Can be broken through

Sunspot - Can be broken through

1. Again their is are rock wall protecting my team from the light and concussive force of the grenades

Which has already been shattered

2. Sunspot is above my team to absorb any light that might get through and to warn Magma to shield her eyes if Slade gets close enough to use them (just to be safe)

A. I have already prov en that his powers are wavy at best (beside the solar absorption . B. How in the hell will sunspot even know/get enough time to warn magma before the great flash of light blinds them .

3. Husk will be standing in front of Magma for an additional line of defense

4. Surge is advancing (as best she can along the bouncy trampoline surface) ahead of the lava to slow down Slade if he attempts to get into grenade range. That is assuming that Slade can get into effective range before the lava wave covers too much of the arena floor (at 30 seconds into the battle half of the arena floor will already be covered)

Slade could run straight past her if he wanted to , or just decapitate her on the way , he see's everything in slow-mo . Much like wolverine , he could decapitate her just as he passes her.

So sei es dann, durch die Gatter der Hölle !! 😎

now thats the fox we all know and love

Originally posted by grey fox
Which i have already proven can be broken through , or at least be pin cushioned enough for cap's shield to break.

Originally posted by grey fox

Which he cant do since Anderson is moving left /right/forward backwards. throwing up to a hundred bayonets at a time , these bayonets are all explosive and if he wanted to he could simply throw a few exploding bayonet chains along with the usual bayonets.

Originally posted by grey fox

Magma - Can be broken

Husk - Can be broken through

Sunspot - Can be broken through

Originally posted by grey fox

Which has already been shattered

Originally posted by grey fox

A. I have already prov en that his powers are wavy at best (beside the solar absorption . B. How in the hell will sunspot even know/get enough time to warn magma before the great flash of light blinds them .

I mean why else would anyone be running towards a lava wave if not to get into range to attack? 😕 Besides it is unlikely that Slade could even get into range to throw his grenades given the speed of the lava. As I have said before in less than 30 seconds he can't get within at least a half mile. 😈

Originally posted by grey fox

Good for her she's blind and could be pin cushioned since the rock walls down

Originally posted by grey fox

Slade could run straight past her if he wanted to , or just decapitate her on the way , he see's everything in slow-mo . Much like wolverine , he could decapitate her just as he passes her.

Also they would both be limited in speed given the trampoline surface.

Originally posted by grey fox

So sei es dann, durch die Gatter der Hölle !! 😎

Sorry, I don't speak Hun.
I prefer Latin: Veni, vidi, vici.

Im casting my vote:

It goes to theKhan. He seems to have a better strategy of attack, and his attack is much more widespread so his angle of attack is much more obtuse compared to fox's bayonets and flash bang (which sunspot could deal with)

well fox seems to have an answer for everything so im voting for him