Devil May Cry 4

Some of Dante's new weapons......

Pandora's Box: Dante's ultimate weapon of mass destruction, Pandora's Box appears as an unassuming briefcase until Dante cracks the seal and unleashes Hell. Pandora's Box has a variety of forms that it can take once opened, so Dante has a wide range of weapons all crammed into his valise. These forms range from standard modern ordinance like a chaingun or rocket launcher, to more archaic death-dealers like a giant bolt-throwing crossbow, to the futuristic and extraordinary like a titanic laser cannon or full-on missile platform. While most of these forms look fairly impressive, it is the missile platform that truly astonishes as it encases Dante in an imposing steel cocoon bristling like a porcupine with missiles for spines.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/ps3/devil-may-cry-4/preview-1175165

Yup, I'll most likely be getting this game. Looks fun and interesting.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Eh, I wasn't impressed with the Demo.

Played the Demo a while ago and it was fun enough to play but extremely easy. I'm sure the game gets harder as you progress though.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

I just never understood why, if everything is that easy, they give you infinite ammo on everything ever.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because you know it doesn't make the system, playing system or gaming dynamic any different outside of "You can do a new move."

Travel to spots they couldn't reach in other ways.

New strategies to overcome bosses and foes.

If you're still going to argue that those aren't changes in gameplay, you would be foolish.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It isn't any different. I have said from the start that the only thing they add are new moves that are ultimately inconsequential.

Inconsequential? An excuse.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The way the game plays, the system, the dynamic, none of it is different. Watch videos of all four games, it's like watching the same game in better graphics.

Without the arm it would be harder to defeat Berial. The arm allows the player to swing on his head and avoid most if not all of his attacks by simply having to be close enough to him.

That's just one way the game plays differently, and one mission from the demo confirms that much.

Already you're incorrect, and now you want to argue that the entire game will play no differently.

Good luck explaining that now or later.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You haven't played any of them, I have played all of them. So...what exactly are you arguing for? Oh, because I MAKE you? Yep. Without doing anything, you have to reply because it's me. I own what you do in these threads. You said it yourself.

- Just by playing the demo I already know how the game plays differently. Dante did not have an arm like Nero's in any of the previous DMC's, nor did he have Pandora's Box. That right there is another thing in the game that will give players a different option of how to play the game.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Who's talking about Ninja Gaiden? We're talking about DMC games, games I've played and am making factual comments on the system, games you've yet to play.

Damn your debating is crap.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Who is discussing that game? Again, you miss the point. Even if you can "do things" in the finished DMC 4 that you can't do in the demo, it won't be anything that radically alters the game style.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Look at the Resident Evil games, none of them deviated from the traditional Capcom survival horror style. Rendered areas, linear paths etc. All that changed was the story, the sprites and the areas. Resident Evil 4 was ENTIRELY different. They gave the entire gameplay system an overhaul. It wasn't a new move, it was an entirely new game control, view and playability system. Same with Resident Evil: Code Veronica, they departed from the rendered style and took everything 3D.

DMC has kept the same thing all the way through, and anyone who has played them will tell you the same.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I didn't say the game would be awesome, it could have been shit for all I know. It peaked my interest, and that is not what I am saying you are wrong for. You are wrong because you are judging things that a trailer does not tell you, like how good a game will be. PREDICTING it? Sure. Saying it will be good, different and innovative? No.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You haven't even played the games.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How did it prove your argument, silly boy?

Budokai 1 played similarly to Budokai 2, in that the gameplay and system were very much identical. The only major difference was the style of B2's graphics.

Budokai 3 featured many changes and improvements, like sequenced speed blitzes, ki attack wars, teleportation, and parrying.

Were you to prejudge Budokai 3's system based on the previous two, you would be wrong, as I've already told you. You completely ignored this example to suit your argument.

And look, we have a member ignoring moderator rules. A very good move. 😂

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've PLAYED DMC 4's demo, I have actually played the whole series. Besides having a new move, there is nothing that is dramatically different from any of the three games before it, it's ultimately the same thing. Run, kill, jump, do a move, fight a big boss. It's the same with newer graphics.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All you're doing is saying "Your arguments suck, I watched the trailer and read stuff, I'm right."

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have played all three full versions and played DMC 4's demo. Four games in and they are clearly not changing anything that would make it "different".

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You have no basis or proof, you have your opinion of a trailer.

Are you sure you watched all of them? haermm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have actually played the games.

Oh wait...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, it doesn't change the gameplay from what it has been since the original DMC came out. How do you even know? You've played none of them besides the demo. You don't even know how the comparisons are.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You keep speaking for everyone, I'm not, because I know I'm right. My points do not require agreement, because they are fact.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You really think I would get reported before you, when in the same post you have said I am a retard, and vomit from a cow's ass? Hmm, odd child you are.

I quote myself saying "You have vomit from a cow's ass" to argue with, and a method which is "that of a retard".

Compare that to "silly little boy" and "you're an idiot".

Maybe you're smart enough to tell the difference.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahahaha, so what? Four new moves do not mean the gaming system and gameplay has been changed.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're suggesting that comparing DMC 4 to the previous games is stupid, in an argument about how they're all the same? Allow me to just provide a little factual proof here, since you've not played any.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=31TuWeCP7Uk

Devil May Cry.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J3lKzgP4ROo

Devil May Cry 4.

New graphics, new move, same shit. Hack, hack, shoot, shoot, jump, attack. Repeat.

If you can watch those videos and try telling me there is any major innovation, change or difference, you're a blind fool.

They add a move and the masses are satiated, they know they don't even have to try. After all, DMC was born because of a failed idea that wasn't good enough to fit into Resident Evil's style.

-AC

Again, you're either not realizing how DMC4 plays differently from judging by the trailers and demo alone, or are unwilling to concede anything due to your sick ego.

I'm laughing to myself at how you've just disproved your own failed argument.

You're better off not continuing to debate this.

^most quotes in a post ive ever seen 😆

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
As I've pointed out many times, Nero's arm alone changes how the game is played, and the reason is it allows the player methods to:

Travel to spots they couldn't reach in other ways.

New strategies to overcome bosses and foes.

So basically, a new move to kill enemies with (Which is all it is, that does not change the style, which is the same), and a few new warp pads?

Nothing we haven't seen in other DMC games, just different variations of. The camera angle, the movement, the gameplay, the fighting and combat style, the level dynamic, it's all the same. He even RUNS precisely the same way. Fixed, jagged, walk and slash game for people who can't play (Or just don't want) anything challenging.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
If you're still going to argue that those aren't changes in gameplay, you would be foolish.

If you're going to ignore the facts, then you're being even worse. You still argue despite never having played the games. Everyone who has played it would agree with what I'm saying, it offers little or no changes.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
I like how that by itself contradicts.

Inconsequential? An excuse.

They are inconsequential. The game is not changed because you can kill someone in a different way.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Wrong. Once again, just Nero's arm makes players play differently. You're just not thinking about this hard enough.

No, I'm just not thinking about it like you'd want me to. You said in a PM that you push ideas and try to make people aware of what you think. I'm aware of what you think, you're just wrong.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Without the arm it would be harder to defeat Berial. The arm allows the player to swing on his head and avoid most if not all of his attacks by simply having to be close enough to him.

There have been bosses AS big in every other DMC game, and the devil arm has not been there. Of course, you wouldn't know that, you've not played the games.

You don't NEED the devil arm, they could have made the game without it, because of the dynamic. You obviously don't understand anything about games construction.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
That's just one way the game plays differently, and one mission from the demo confirms that much.

It doesn't confirm anything other than a graphical update, an added move, and the same old walk, kill, jump bs that people love, because they can't/don't want anything harder.

Hey, if you're not good at games enough to play harder material, that's cool, but recognise facts.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Already you're incorrect, and now you want to argue that the entire game will play no differently.

WATCH the videos, WATCH the previews, PLAY the games. They move, fight and unfold exactly the same way each time.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
You're ignoring how I proved your method of prejudging a game worthless with my Budokai example, and are dodging it as expected.

I'm not ignoring it, your example was actually faulty. We're not discussing that game. We are discussing a game with THREE previous installments that I have played and finished, the demo of the new game and the fact that they stick to a straight forward formula.

I am basing my argument on fact. You're basing it on "I love Devil May Cry 4...'s trailer and hype. I will judge it accordingly to this.".

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Just by playing the demo I already know how the game plays differently.

So you can have an idea, JUST FROM THE DEMO, that the game will be entirely different to any DMC game, despite having played a grand total of NO other DMCs, and yet when I play it, judge it, and form a factual argument; you say I am basing it on nothing?

Methinks thou doth not think enough.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Dante did not have an arm like Nero's in any of the previous DMC's, nor did he have Pandora's Box. That right there is another thing in the game that will give players a different option of how to play the game.

Ultimately it amounts to a different way to kill an enemy. All you do in the game is walk along a linear path in deceivingly open areas, that aren't open at all, and kill things until you get to something huge, which you then have to kill.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
A copout after I confirmed that playing a demo of a game isn't all that one should do before judging the completed version.

And then you say:

"Just by playing the demo I already know how the game plays differently.".

This is all rather funny, you realise?

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Damn your debating is crap.

Read above, and realise how foolish you're making yourself look by arguing factual about a game series you've played a demo of, against someone who has played them all.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Since when did this become about "radical changes in game styles"? That by itself is no more than opinion, seeing as 'radical' can be personally defined. The point here, is you said the game plays no differently and at the same time, made a bad move.

It doesn't, fact. The dynamic is ultimately the same formula as it always is.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
And explain how RE4's gameplay was so different sir. I want to know your definition of gameplay change.

It went from fixed, rendered environments, to a completely different style of 3D, interractive environments that were much more open and explorable than any before it. Not only that, but it added the ability to dynamically counter attack depending on the position of the player AND the opponent, it added environment interaction with which the enemies can also interract with, they couldn't do so before. In RE 4 they were given the ability to use weapons, set traps and organise an ambush. All of this was added in favour of the traditional Resident Evil style of walking around in a fixed and rendered background with little to no environment interaction, killing enemies that, at the very most, could run at you at varying speeds.

Devil May Cry? "We've given him the devil arm.", yes.

It's the same all the way through.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
The trailer showed how the game will be played differently, as I've told you more than once, and which you insist to say is no different.

I've actually played the demo, which came after the trailer. I've played all previous existing DMCs. You run the same, you fight the same, you jump and move the same. All these games are is hack and slash, that's it.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Stop saying this garbage that I've proved means nothing.

You'd love me to stop because you know you are getting annoyed, and you want to stop replying, but you are consumed with having a say. Good, because the more you speak, the more you aid my argument.

How does it prove nothing, by the way? We're discussing how DMC 4 relates to previous games, and you haven't played those games, so how can it be irrelevant that you haven't played them? It more or less renders your opinion useless.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Budokai 1 played similarly to Budokai 2, in that the gameplay and system were very much identical. The only major difference was the style of B2's graphics.

Budokai 3 featured many changes and improvements, like sequenced speed blitzes, ki attack wars, teleportation, and parrying.

Were you to prejudge Budokai 3's system based on the previous two, you would be wrong, as I've already told you. You completely ignored this example to suit your argument.

Budokai 3 added way more to the formula, Devil May Cry 4 is adding a new move or two and some warp pads. NOTHING else has changed, AT ALL. The way you play and the way you fight is essentially identical, it always is. You run along a linear environment, you kill stuff, you solve a puzzle, you kill a boss. That is all that DMC is, really.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Which alone proved differences in how people played the game, lol.

Are you sure you watched all of them? haermm

Watched? What's watching compared to playing?

You're impressed by cleverly marketed trailers. I've played all three games and the demo. What I have to go by is factual and much more credible than you fanboying over seeing Sony show you some nice graphics.

-AC

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
I'm sure Dante did not have an arm like Nero's. Nero's arm by itself was supposed to alter how DMC is played. Again, you're simply biased enough to not see or admit it.

See what? I'm seeing that you have nothing to go on. The only thing you have is what a trailer showed, where as others...like me, have PLAYED the game, and it's predecessors.

It will be the same as always, and I do not care if you agree or not, because my argument is fact, and your agreement is not necessary. That is why you always want people to agree, and why you keep posting. Because outside of people agreeing with you, you've got nothing. You need people on your side, I do not.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
I quote myself saying "You have vomit from a cow's ass" to argue with, and a method which is "that of a retard".

Yeah, those are blatant insults.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Compare that to "silly little boy" and "you're an idiot".

And those are me telling you that you're being a silly boy. You're a boy, right? You're also being silly. You're also being an idiot.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Since it alters the way the game is played, yes the game[b]play has changed, Albert. barker[/b]

It doesn't alter the way the game is played. Watch the videos I posted, if you're so keen on footage. Two boss fights, one from the first game, one from 4. Both essentially the same shit.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
When you are able to tell me when Dante is swinging on a boss's head with an arm he can magically extend, or pick one up and slam it on the floor to make it unconscious long enough to deal a good number of blows with his sword before he has to steer clear of a powerup incinerating a village, get back to me.

Haha, you are so impressed by the fact that Nero can swing around a bosses head. Sony really don't have to try anymore, do they? All they do is add a new, flashy move, and you go "OHMYGODBESTGAMEEVER!".

It's ridiculous, demand more of these people, not the same game four times.

I wouldn't HAVE to tell you when that has happened, if you'd played the games.

Originally posted by Wandering Flame
Again, you're either not realizing how DMC4 plays differently from judging by the trailers and demo alone, or are unwilling to concede anything due to your sick ego.

I am actually laughing right now, it's so funny how frustrated you are at losing.

Now reply, so you can continue ending yourself. I command you to.

-AC

Alpha Centauri and Wandering Flame, you have both received warnings for continued insults after I told you very clearly to stop.

You will carry on any necessary discussion in a civil manner.

What constitutes insults to you? Just so I can avoid that, I think it's only fair I ask, since I feel my last post was pretty civil, but obviously I'll avoid any pointless warnings by dropping what you consider insults, from my posts.

-AC

Essentially, name calling and things such as:

Methinks thou doth not think enough.

You are an intelligent person, you should be fully capable of making points in a debate without descending to ad hominum retorts.

With all due respect, you being critical of my intelligence to method of debate ratio does not constitute me insulting someone. One could even argue that it takes intelligence to see I am more than capable of making points without ad hominem retorts, the fact that there ARE ad hominem retorts does not mean I am using that to anchor my debate.

Either way, me saying he doesn't think enough is not an insult, given the fact that anybody reading his arguments can see that he is being very, very stupid, in the literal sense of the word. I don't think that's harsh, I think that what he is doing and the way he is acting is very stupid, and it's not unkind to tell him he isn't thinkiing.

If you would prefer me to stop calling him things irrelevantly, which I have done on occassion, I shall, in the interest of keeping a debate going, but regarding the above, I'm not really doing anything that everybody here hasn't done, or isn't doing right now. Even mods.

-AC

As ever, AC- don't use the threads to argue with a moderator. Take it to PM.

The very fact that you were both told to stop arguing multiple times, in two threads, and yet continued to do so more than justifies the warnings.

When you're told to stop, you stop. If the other person decides to continue, then you just ignore it and move on otherwise you'll both be in trouble.

This really isn't that hard a concept.

I apologize that the moderator commands seem to contradict.

Are we supposed to stop arguing period, or cease as long as there are insults in our posts?

A lot of the points didn't relate to the thread and were kinda personal. Consequently I took them out, and I did some grouping to save space.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So basically, a new move to kill enemies with (Which is all it is, that does not change the style, which is the same), and a few new warp pads? Nothing we haven't seen in other DMC games, just different variations of. The camera angle, the movement, the gameplay, the fighting and combat style, the level dynamic, it's all the same. He even RUNS precisely the same way. Fixed, jagged, walk and slash game for people who can't play (Or just don't want) anything challenging. If you're going to ignore the facts, then you're being even worse. You still argue despite never having played the games. Everyone who has played it would agree with what I'm saying, it offers little or no changes. Ultimately it amounts to a different way to kill an enemy. All you do in the game is walk along a linear path in deceivingly open areas, that aren't open at all, and kill things until you get to something huge, which you then have to kill.

And with all due respect, the Berial fight was far from easy, and I'm an experienced action game player myself.

Not that game difficulty wasn't ever based on opinion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There have been bosses AS big in every other DMC game, and the devil arm has not been there. Of course, you wouldn't know that, you've not played the games. You don't NEED the devil arm, they could have made the game without it, because of the dynamic. You obviously don't understand anything about games construction.

Or you could've just referred to it as one new move, which is all you think the changes put in DMC4 gives players.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not ignoring it, your example was actually faulty. We're not discussing that game. We are discussing a game with THREE previous installments that I have played and finished, the demo of the new game and the fact that they stick to a straight forward formula. I am basing my argument on fact. You're basing it on "I love Devil May Cry 4...'s trailer and hype. I will judge it accordingly to this." So you can have an idea, JUST FROM THE DEMO, that the game will be entirely different to any DMC game, despite having played a grand total of NO other DMCs, and yet when I play it, judge it, and form a factual argument; you say I am basing it on nothing? Methinks thou doth not think enough.

This is what you said:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The fact that two was like one, three was like two? I've played them all, and they're all essentially the same game with different levels, enemies and an added move or feature. Like God of War or something.

The fact that one was like two? I've played them all, and they're all essentially the same game with different style of graphics.

Either you're not seeing what's wrong with your flawed method of prejudging a game, or you're continuing to dodge as usual.

Don't bring up the DMC4 demo either, as it would be pointless for more than one reason.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And then you say:

"Just by playing the demo I already know how the game plays differently.".

This is all rather funny, you realise?
Read above, and realise how foolish you're making yourself look by arguing factual about a game series you've played a demo of, against someone who has played them all.

My Ninja Gaiden example shows why using a demo to prejudge a completed game is beyond silly.

The DMC4 demo happens to include methods that allow the player to play DMC differently, and despite for a guy who hasn't played a DMC game before, I would know instantly, just considering Dante did not have something that defines the changes that I've been pointing out, which again, you refer to as "inconsequential" and thus not a change.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It went from fixed, rendered environments, to a completely different style of 3D, interractive environments that were much more open and explorable than any before it. Not only that, but it added the ability to dynamically counter attack depending on the position of the player AND the opponent, it added environment interaction with which the enemies can also interract with, they couldn't do so before. In RE 4 they were given the ability to use weapons, set traps and organise an ambush. All of this was added in favour of the traditional Resident Evil style of walking around in a fixed and rendered background with little to no environment interaction, killing enemies that, at the very most, could run at you at varying speeds.

Why are the different things a player could do in DMC4 then not change the gameplay? Pardon me for using an off-topic example, but I would guess you would argue that a telekinesis plasmid in Bioshock helps to make the game different for an obvious reason. If what I'm saying is correct, would you care to explain how it's much different than grabbing bosses and foes (and items), and tossing them at other things for damage dealing? Yes, this is a feature in DMC4.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You'd love me to stop because you know you are getting annoyed, and you want to stop replying, but you are consumed with having a say. Good, because the more you speak, the more you aid my argument. How does it prove nothing, by the way? We're discussing how DMC 4 relates to previous games, and you haven't played those games, so how can it be irrelevant that you haven't played them? It more or less renders your opinion useless.

The other reason I want you to stop saying it, is because anyone who was following along would realize why prejudging a game based on 2,3,4, or 5 previous and similar installments is not a smart thing to do, as in my Budokai example, which you've either not comprehended or yet to agree with.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Budokai 3 added way more to the formula, Devil May Cry 4 is adding a new move or two and some warp pads. NOTHING else has changed, AT ALL. The way you play and the way you fight is essentially identical, it always is. You run along a linear environment, you kill stuff, you solve a puzzle, you kill a boss. That is all that DMC is, really.

You want to label all the changes I've mentioned of Budokai 3 "way more changes to the formula than DMC4" when I've mentioned about 4 or 5 ways it plays differently.

At the same time you want to label getting to various spots on a map, grabbing bosses, foes, and items and tossing them, (following examples I've yet to mention) switching stances in the middle of battle when necessary, and dealing damage by detonating projectiles lodged in opponents by simply tossing a rose, as one or two new moves than doesn't change the game at all.

Two could play that game dude..but I'm not sinking that low.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Watched? What's watching compared to playing?

You're impressed by cleverly marketed trailers. I've played all three games and the demo. What I have to go by is factual and much more credible than you fanboying over seeing Sony show you some nice graphics.

First off, this isn't Sony making DMC4. It's Capcom. haermm

Secondly I've played the demo. I know the changes in DMC4 that allow players to play the game in different ways, which the link at the top of this page even points out to the world who has yet to experience the full version of DMC4 (yes, it would include you).

But the trailer does show some changes either way, like the whole grabbing bosses and throwing them method.

Previous post almost exceeded 10000 characters, just so that is known.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
See what? I'm seeing that you have nothing to go on. The only thing you have is what a trailer showed, where as others...like me, have PLAYED the game, and it's predecessors. It will be the same as always, and I do not care if you agree or not, because my argument is fact, and your agreement is not necessary. That is why you always want people to agree, and why you keep posting. Because outside of people agreeing with you, you've got nothing. You need people on your side, I do not.

There there, AC.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, those are blatant insults.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And those are me telling you that you're being a silly boy. You're a boy, right? You're also being silly. You're also being an idiot.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't alter the way the game is played. Watch the videos I posted, if you're so keen on footage. Two boss fights, one from the first game, one from 4. Both essentially the same shit.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Haha, you are so impressed by the fact that Nero can swing around a bosses head. Sony really don't have to try anymore, do they? All they do is add a new, flashy move, and you go "OHMYGODBESTGAMEEVER!".

It's ridiculous, demand more of these people, not the same game four times.

I wouldn't HAVE to tell you when that has happened, if you'd played the games.

And no offense buddy, but whenever you put the word "Sony" in your posts, you seem pretty aggressive and upset.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I am actually laughing right now, it's so funny how frustrated you are at losing.

Now reply, so you can continue ending yourself. I command you to.

-AC

Right now, I'm not laughing because you're not making sense, but because you can't operate without saying you're right, and that everyone else disagreeing with you is wrong in pretty much each one of your points, when again, you don't make sense.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Either way, me saying he doesn't think enough is not an insult, given the fact that anybody reading his arguments can see that he is being very, very stupid, in the literal sense of the word. I don't think that's harsh, I think that what he is doing and the way he is acting is very stupid, and it's not unkind to tell him he isn't thinkiing.

No offense whatsoever; just wanted you to know, friend.

The very fact that you have gone and caused people to talk about me is flattering. I have a reputation on other sites and I have you and your friends talking about me on MSN? Nice to know that when you're not replying to me, as I commanded you to, you are talking about me.

I appreciate being your idol, but I have proven my point. The facts are there, and you are the only one disagreeing. I am right, and my posts prove it. You are going to continue posting despite having no argument, and it is at this point that I realise I have won, therefore, I consider the debate over, for the sake of the thread also.

-AC

I have not caused anyone to talk about you, actually. You can even confirm by going to the site (you can ask me for the link). A person other than me has brought your name up out of nowhere and was referring to the posting we were doing. Again, you jump to false conclusions.

And you pretty much pulled a Shin_Nikkolas in that second paragraph. Way 2 go homie.