Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry to be critical. Some of your scans are no good. Such as him lifting boats under the water. He wouldn't need to lift the full weight of the boat or sub for two reasons.
1. These things already have an existing bouyant upward force in them (especially the sub)
2. It is a lot easier to lift things in water than out of water.
In some of those scans the sunken ships or boats were immobile. It was Namor that got them into motion from being stationary. On you second point i agree with you. It is easier to lift things in water. However, its also easier to be pulled down in water as well, so its a balance. When lifting the destroyer, Namor held it above his head as well as swim upwards with it. If youre in water and holding a 2,000lb steel sphere, it would make you sink without a doubt.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also the scans where namor is pushing the boats and things are not the same as lifting. F=ma . This means that even a small force can move the most massive of objects required that it has the time to accelerate.
Id be inclined to agree with you on the pushing feats. The freighters were pretty much already afloat and wouldnt require much effort in moving them. The submarine wasnt afloat though and was purely sunken. Namor lifted it from the bottom and then pushed it back to the top. Those are 2 different scenarios.
Originally posted by h1a8
The friction force in water is very small indeed. Note: some of your weights are also wrong (such as the freighter weighing 200,000 tons. it actually weighs closer to 5,000tons-most likely less though). But this doesn't matter anyway by the above reasons.
DC never stated the freighter was 200,00 tons. Its the oil tanker that weighs that much. Empty tankers weigh from 120,000 tons. Tankers WITH oil weigh well over 180,000 tons.
Originally posted by h1a8
But wait a minute. I believe these are PIS.
This is because if you look at those scans it shows very different looks of namor. Meaning that these events happened in many years apart. This shows the rarity of the events. To not be PIS then feats must occur more frequently than these in which they not contradict other comic feats (like namor struggling to lift something under 100tons).
Youre calling his feats PIS because they dont happen more frequent? They are feats. When has he struggled to lift something under 100 tons? Did he fail at it? If not then it really isnt relevant if he struggled. I dont know why they would be considered PIS when there are a few 100cl characters that dont have many lifting feats. Juggernaugt hardly has any. Thor and Hercules only have a few.
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Dude...They're DEAD...
😕
No their not, there are two teams of Alpha Flight the actual team which is in space and temporal copies which were in NA #16. Also interviews from Joe Q stated they are not dead.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Their not all dead.....anyways if Vol.3 is canon this isn't even the real Alpha Flight. The real Alpha Flight is in space, while these are just temporal copies.
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http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=11&fldAuto=283[b]Crawler310
-- There seems to be a lot of deaths in these Decimation arcs and so forth, Mr. Marts. Were the deaths of the Greys, the entirety of Alpha Flight, Banshee, Tag (with the other depowered students), etc. editorially mandated or did each author just decide to kill someone randomly? Will this trend continue?Mike Marts -- The recent deaths weren’t editorially mandated…they more or less corresponded to the needs of the stories and the characters involved in those stories. Also—please know that all of Alpha Flight haven’t actually died.
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http://www.alphaflight.net/interviews/mm_interview2.php
I recently had an oportunity to disicuss the buzz around Alpha Flight with Mark Millar. Which him writing Civil War, and having an interest already in Alpha Flight characters, I was curious how he might be involved in future AF events.AlphaFlight.net: Hello Mark. Because of the news Joe Quesada just gave regarding the possibility of a new Alpha Flight series in the works, I'm curious if you might be involved. I know in your last interview with me you mentioned a possibility of you using the Alpha Flight characters down the road. Otherwise if you aren't connected to it, I'm curious if you've heard any buzz about it in the Marvel grapevine.
Mark Millar: Nice to hear from you again, mate. Yes, I'm really using Marvel Civil War as a means of re-establishing some of the greatest, sadly missing characters from the MU. I'm very old school, despite being only thirty-six, and put this down to reading Marvel UK reprints as a kid instead of the books you guys were reading in the 80s and 90s. Thus, the period I have the biggest affection for really runs from Stan and Jack up to classic John Byrne. I'm reading all the Byrne FFs right now and loving them to pieces. I just love the Alpha Flight stuff I'm reading too and plan to end MCW with the possibility of a very good, very high profile Alpha Flight book spinning out of the series. These are great characters and it's a great concept and I want it to be treated seriously or not at all. It's in Marvel's hands what happens after MCW, but they're very keen to bring back some of the old school magic we've been missing for a while and AF is right there on my list with several other characters.
AlphaFlight.net: Is doing an AF series something that you are hoping to do yourself, or do you just want to set them up to be available for someone else?
Mark Millar: Like all the other things I'm setting up in this book, there's just not enough hours in the day for me to write it myself, Ben. I've been finishing Civil War in my six months off and then, after that, I'm jumping into my new creator-owned books for a while.
AlphaFlight.net: I'm curious if you had anything to do with the events in New Avengers #16?
Mark Millar: No, but me, Brian, JMS and all the other writers have been in touch to make sure we're all marching in the same direction. All these events are very important to Civil War.
Ben [/B]
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well the temporal copies were sent to the present for a reason, maybe this was it. So if vol.3 is canon the stronger Alpha Flight is still in space, since the temporal copies were taken from a time before most of them got their major upgrades in power.
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0014.jpg
2. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0015.jpg
3. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0016.jpg
4. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0017.jpg
5. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0019.jpg
6. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0020.jpg
7. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0021.jpg
8. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0022.jpgAlso the overload of splashes pissed me off, all though the art was beautiful
got his back
Originally posted by spetznaz
Hi DC.
It appears to me that you might very well be the most over-worked member in KMC. You constantly have to defend Namor in matchups that shouldn't require any such defence. In most cases it should be clearly evident that Namor is the winner, but sadly there are many here who think Wolverine (to use the example of a past Namor vs thread) can win against Namor (I believe that was also a thread you had to step in and educate certain posters).
I have to give you props ....you consistently stand by your guy.
I think I'd personally go insane if I had to constantly defend a clearly superior character from posters who think Wolverine would triumph over him.Who knows .....maybe next you'll have to defend Namor from someone who thinks that the Rhino can score a win.
Anyways, good job DC.
Hopefully in the future people will read up on Namor before they say folks like wolvie stand a chance.
Hey i got DC's back, as a matter of fact i don't even think he had to post in this one, i handled that mess! 😎
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395759&highlight=namor+versus+sandman
Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry to be critical. Some of your scans are no good. Such as him lifting boats under the water. He wouldn't need to lift the full weight of the boat or sub for two reasons.
1. These things already have an existing bouyant upward force in them (especially the sub)
2. It is a lot easier to lift things in water than out of water.Also the scans where namor is pushing the boats and things are not the same as lifting. F=ma . This means that even a small force can move the most massive of objects required that it has the time to accelerate.
The friction force in water is very small indeed. Note: some of your weights are also wrong (such as the freighter weighing 200,000 tons. it actually weighs closer to 5,000tons-most likely less though). But this doesn't matter anyway by the above reasons.The only credible scans are throwing a 50ton tank, breaking crimson bands, and knocking out the hulk, and lifting the destroyer.
But wait a minute. I believe these are PIS.
This is because if you look at those scans it shows very different looks of namor. Meaning that these events happened in many years apart. This shows the rarity of the events. To not be PIS then feats must occur more frequently than these in which they not contradict other comic feats (like namor struggling to lift something under 100tons).Lastly, Namor possesses the power of flight. This power enables him to lift things much greater than he can without it. I'm not saying that namor used any power of flight in your scans. I'm justing saying this in case you post any new scans with him flying with an object of more than 100tons. Marvel says namor strength is up to 100tons because they are referring to his unflight strength and the consistency of all the comics he is written in.
I always appreciate a well thought piece good job🙂 On that note however comic physics don't exist so much otherwise most super heavy objects picked up would collapse on themselvs🙁 Not to mention when picking up objects in the water that break the surface still create surface tension and not a true weight to lift so you have to overcome surface tension and well as the weight itself.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No their not, there are two teams of Alpha Flight the actual team which is in space and temporal copies which were in NA #16. Also interviews from Joe Q stated they are not dead.
Also—please know that all of Alpha Flight haven’t actually died.
Isn't he just saying that not all of alpha flight is dead meaning there could be 1 or 2 still alive...
😕
It's a weird statement to be honest.
Originally posted by spideycarnageYou think Namor wins 10/10? In water I might agree but on dry land I do not.
finally namor gets a thread where he's not gettong smashed.. namor wins all the time both agaist classic colossus, and 8/10 against ulitmate.
Colossus can match his strength but he has Namor beat on durability and fighting skills.
On dry land I say 50/50.
Originally posted by spideycarnageFlying isn't really gonna be a advantage actually.
namor should win, on land they match up strenght pretty evenlly, namor is faster and he can fly also. colossus duribality can only last so long, ok namor agaist classic colossus 9/10
Here he survives a drop over 1 mile high. When he landed the explsion left a crater 1/2 mile in diameter.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossuskickingss.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossuskickingss2.jpg
Rougue uses Colossus as a batterin ram to smash a huge concrete wall. She was even pushing him straight down. Check out the crater the impact left.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandRogue2.jpg
Still say 50/50 on land.
Well I guess your right DC I can't argue with facts about Namors feats even if they contridict the very character in question, I know that I can bench 205 lbs for ten repetions but there is no way that I can bench a car, my point here is that his strength is inconsistent with his stats and Marvel need to fix it up that their characters that can only lift 85 tonnes remain in that range I can understand characters like Thor being able to lift in excess of 100+ tonnes this keeps it vague not truly giving away how much the fictional character can really lift but 85 tonnes is something different it doesn't hit the unknown barrier, I do undersatnd that in water Namor can lift in the range of 100 tonnes but I imagine if he can it's not much more than 100 tonnes being that his base total is only 85 tonnes... I need to remind you that when Namor fought Hercules who was truly in the 100+ tonne class was thrown all over the place Colossus is no longer in the 75-80 tonne range as he is in his prime as an adult.... Marvel just has some cleaning up to do, I stand firm on land Colossus would most likely win because like Snoop said his body armor is better, but in water Namor will take him no questions about it.... Oh! does anyone remember The Hulk beating up on the combined team that composed of Doc. Samson, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Hercules (immortal form), and yours truly Namor? it just goe to show that in water Namor is really tough, but on land he's just mediocre at best. Don't get mad at me though, get mad at marvel.
Because of his unusual genetic heritage, Namor is unique among both ordinary humans and Atlanteans; he is sometimes referred to as "Marvel's first mutant," because, while the majority of his observed superhuman powers come from the fact that he's a hybrid of Human and Atlantean DNA, his ability to fly can't be explained by either side. (Atlanteans are an off-shoot of "baseline" humanity.) Namor has superhuman strength and is the strongest Atlantean ever, with a lift capacity of 85 tons (Source: Official Marvel.com Website, 2005: http://www.marvel.com/universe/index.htm ) and slightly more while submerged. Official Marvel Handbook, Avengers 2004 lists his strength level as 100 tons. Namor has lifted more than this numerous times, though.
Does anyone see any contradictions here?!!?
namor is pretty durable http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2039/namorfeat367wt.giftoo.
try that, he takes a shot from thors Mjolnir, and is still standing
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6527/namorfeat295yp.gif
Namor takes a equilavent of miniature nuke straight into face (He was holding it) and is only minorly stunned. The impact hurled him into sea.
all form darkcrawler
he's proablly just as duribale as colossus.
I'll agree Namor is hella durable. But I don't think he is more durable than a guy made out of steel.
In this scan Colossus' body is less mangled than guys like Thor, Hulk and Thing. It's from Secret Wars #9. Doom killed all of Earths heroes but Colossus was brought back cause his body was in better shape than everybody elses.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Well I guess your right DC I can't argue with facts about Namors feats even if they contridict the very character in question, I know that I can bench 205 lbs for ten repetions but there is no way that I can bench a car, my point here is that his strength is inconsistent with his stats and Marvel need to fix it up that their characters that can only lift 85 tonnes remain in that range I can understand characters like Thor being able to lift in excess of 100+ tonnes this keeps it vague not truly giving away how much the fictional character can really lift but 85 tonnes is something different it doesn't hit the unknown barrier, I do undersatnd that in water Namor can lift in the range of 100 tonnes but I imagine if he can it's not much more than 100 tonnes being that his base total is only 85 tonnes... I need to remind you that when Namor fought Hercules who was truly in the 100+ tonne class was thrown all over the place Colossus is no longer in the 75-80 tonne range as he is in his prime as an adult.... Marvel just has some cleaning up to do, I stand firm on land Colossus would most likely win because like Snoop said his body armor is better, but in water Namor will take him no questions about it.... Oh! does anyone remember The Hulk beating up on the combined team that composed of Doc. Samson, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Hercules (immortal form), and yours truly Namor? it just goe to show that in water Namor is really tough, but on land he's just mediocre at best. Don't get mad at me though, get mad at marvel.
This is why I hate Marvel ratings, because they often go against consistent feats. Namor is listed as Class 85 when he has llifted far heavier objects. Base Hulk is listed as Class 75 when he has moved tectonic plates and braced a mountain at his base. Wonder Man is listed as Class 95 when he has shown to be a couple of notches below Thor.
Also, the whole fight scene with Hulk and the other heroes isn't a good indication of Namor's strength because of two things: Namor was sapped of his strength from being in the desert for so long and it was Mindless Hulk they fought, quite possibly the strongest Hulk incarnation.
Even if these two fight on land, I would assume that namor would be fresh from the water or wearing his current black suit and thus, at his peak.
