TORTURE HAS BEEN CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN AS A HORRIBLEY UNRELIABLE WAY TO GET INFORMATION. YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, NOT ACCURATE INFO. IF YOU'RE FINE WITH TORTURE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING IN A FREE SOCIETY
AND IF YOU THINK TORTURE IS FINE JUST AS A PUNISHMENT OR FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT, YOU'RE SIMPLY ****ED UP IN THE HEAD AND SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM SOCIETY
I wouldn't be that extreme, but I do agree that torture is an unreliable method of extracting information. Certainly nothing done at Al-Gruhib prison saved lives and was neccessary. It's just another case of humans lording and abusing other humans when in a position of power. Like that old prison simulation run by the psychologists... Some of you who had psychology in college would know of it.
Anyways, ethically speaking, when you sanction torture as a means to an end, you work through consequentialism. By this same code of ethics, I could rape your mother and stab your father if it benefitted whatever it was I was trying to benefit. That's not a rational ethical code to uphold, even if it sounds appealing in -certain- moral dillemas. Torturing people you believe are bad makes you just as bad.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
That's an awfuly irrational and ignorant statement to make yourself, ever heard the expression "don't knock it till you've tried it"?
How so? My statement is based on the evidence displayed in your posts, what's yours based on? Also, the idiom you use doesn't make any sense in the context of your post.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
It doesn't take a rocket scientist, those people in prison deserve whatever punishment those incharge find fitting, they raped little girls, killed dozens of people for no other reason then some sick peverted sense of pleasure, robbed people to the point of having to live off food-stamps, selling drugs that broke homes and ruined lives, they're a bane unto exsistance, so no, I don't see how I should give a fig about what happens or doesn't happen to them..
'An eye for an eye' just creates a lot of blind people, which happens to be the problem in the first place.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Your point is?
My point is the end doesn't justify the means, unless you proscribe to a very jaded and immoral code of ethics. Your idea of "Do what you gotta do" doesn't work in a world where people are bound by society rules and expectations. I can't kill people on the road because they are potential competition for food, or make my house a fortress complete with automatic turrets because potential rapists are in my neighborhood. The "do what you must" mentality exists in a situation where life is primal and primitive. When you're on a desert island and there's one jug of water left and two people. Not in a world where the "enemy" can be bombed into submission or simply just isolated and occupied by us. We're not in serious danger here, except in danger of losing our integrity in the name of "defense". That's the entire issue here.
That's what you children don't understand, this isn't about being the bigger man, it's about survival, and protecting the ones you love.. (and maybe some you don't.)
First off, stow the insults. It's actually more childish to call anonymous people online "children" for having different beliefs than it is mature.
Secondly, this isn't about survival. The fate of the United States does not hinge on objecitifying and dehumanizing foreign prisoners from far far away. If anything, brutalizing prisoners enhances danger because we look like immoral and imperialistic bastards. Using the idea of "protecting the ones you love" is a flimsy ass excuse for wanton torture, man. Torture goes against the values that love supports, like compassion, understanding, and forgiveness. Those are core values of a society with integrity. Torture isn't.
Pride is a luxory no-one can afford..
Funny, I could say that about consequentialism.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Menh, I have no proof for or against that, so fine, I'll just say it gives me some sense of comfort to know my enemies are suffering unimmagianable pain.And there's nothing you can say against that because what, you're going to tell me how I feel about the situation? 😂
No, I can't tell you how you feel about the situation. However, I can tell you that by supporting such cruel and dispicable acts you can no longer condemn the criminals themselves for doing similar acts without being a blatant hypocrite. You are also supporting illegal acts, seeing as these things aren't legal in America, or any other decent country. And, I can also tell you that with this type of thought process you seem to have, you'd fit right in with the very people who you label as enemies.
It's very common to become the thing you hate, but then, isn't that the entire point?
Evil is nesscarey, the only way you can stop evil is with evil, you just have to have enough motivation on the right-side to make yourself the "lesser evil".
All that peace and love crap doesn't work, like earlier "an eye for an eye makes the world go blind" yeah, Gandhi said that, and look how much he accomplished, JACK SQUAT. Commies and terrorists still dominate, tibetian monks are another example, they refuse to fight, so what do they do? They run like scared little girls, while the soldiers of China hunt down thier families and put a couple rounds through thier head, and if they find the monks, do more of the same.
That's where peace gets you, you can call that better all you want too, but this isn't some fictional book, it's real life, and in real life, it's not about the message, it's about the results, live to write another page, or die in the first half, that's our only choice in this life.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
It's very common to become the thing you hate, but then, isn't that the entire point?
What are you talking about? So, the point of torturing detainees in Guantanamo Bay is because the US want to become detainees in Guantanamo Bay? Are you sure you're not a bot?
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Evil is nesscarey, the only way you can stop evil is with evil, you just have to have enough motivation on the right-side to make yourself the "lesser evil".
This is absolutely ridiculous. If the only way to stop evil is through evil, then what is the point in the whole process? Terrorsits committing evil acts result in the US committing evil acts which in turn results in terrorists committing evil acts, ad infinitum...? That's a wonderfully well thought-out argument.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Thankyou for noticing. 😉 I knew someone as smart as you couldn't perpetualy believe those niave monks who get raped and shot trying to defend the idea of peace was a good idea..
Oh, it was my pleasure. I have a very keen eye for spotting ignorant bullshit. Therefore, I must thank you for giving it so much practice recently.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
It's very common to become the thing you hate, but then, isn't that the entire point?Evil is nesscarey, the only way you can stop evil is with evil, you just have to have enough motivation on the right-side to make yourself the "lesser evil".
All that peace and love crap doesn't work, like earlier "an eye for an eye makes the world go blind" yeah, Gandhi said that, and look how much he accomplished, JACK SQUAT. Commies and terrorists still dominate, tibetian monks are another example, they refuse to fight, so what do they do? They run like scared little girls, while the soldiers of China hunt down thier families and put a couple rounds through thier head, and if they find the monks, do more of the same.
That's where peace gets you, you can call that better all you want too, but this isn't some fictional book, it's real life, and in real life, it's not about the message, it's about the results, live to write another page, or die in the first half, that's our only choice in this life.
You read too many comic books
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh, it was my pleasure. I have a very keen eye for spotting ignorant bullshit. Therefore, I must thank you for giving it so much practice recently.
Another classic quote. Stuffing this in my profile.
I've said all I need to say to Hack. If he wants to believe in some kind of social Darwinism, he needs to stay the hell out of politics.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
You read too many comic books
Ya Krunk, I don't mind you having a differant viewpoint then me, but could you lay off the insults? It's really starting to bug me, and just as i'm not above toturing, i'm not above hitting the report button, it'd be an ******* thing to do, but I think we've established how I feel the ends always justify the means..
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
I was about to say the same thing to you, comic book logic is you should always try to be the better man.Ya Krunk, I don't mind you having a differant viewpoint then me, but could you lay off the insults? It's really starting to bug me, and just as i'm not above toturing, i'm not above hitting the report button, it'd be an ******* thing to do, but I think we've established how I feel the ends always justify the means..
If being honest and debating with you is worthy of being reported, you must be a really sensitive little child behind that keyboard, Hack.
Don't let "the children" at KMC who have different opinions get you down or anything.
Originally posted by Hack Benjamin
Ya Krunk, I don't mind you having a differant viewpoint then me, but could you lay off the insults? It's really starting to bug me, and just as i'm not above toturing, i'm not above hitting the report button, it'd be an ******* thing to do, but I think we've established how I feel the ends always justify the means..
I feel the same way regarding differing viewpoints. However, I find opinions offensive when they are mired in ignorance. If you could stop doing that, I'd feel better too. When you are in a discussion it is advisable that you are able to substantiate your view by developing a comprehensible argument. If you could do that, there would be no problem here.
What do you mean? I havn't gotten nasty with you, I've given you my honoust feelings on the matter, that's it, I havn't called you a lier, or even tried to demoralize your views, I've simply given you a solid foundation on why I think the way I do.
In a way, it's quite the irony, I'm the one who believes in an eye for an eye, yet your the one trying to make me go blind..