revan runs the guantlet

Originally posted by Illustrious
So you think a lot of Jedi wake up one morning and go "I'm going to renounce everything I was ever taught and going to go turn into an evil bastard!"?

A lot of Jedi have noble intentions, get caught up in the dark side, and fall. Even Exar Kun stated that he would "never turn to the dark side" in his comics. You saw how great that was.

Even WHEN Revan became the dark lord, his intentions were still good. He was just thinking as a battle hardened commander would. He never wanted to destroy the Republic. To become its saviour, he had to first become its conqueror.

Right so he took it upon himself to be the chosen one for his time, and his accomplishments show exactly that. But in terms of a 1 on 1 battle, Kun still has the amulet.

Yes a 20 year old Jedi Knight, would not have a clear depiction on the power of Kun, as you know, only Jedi Masters faced off against Kun, all of them died, Kreia never faced off Kun, thus never saw his power nor had the ability to look at him and sense how much power he had, she is not a valid source as well she is not valid in the very fact she favours Revan.

The VERY LEAST 20. Given a Jedi Master/Sith Lord's abnormally long life span, she could have been anywhere in her sixties during that time.

Consider also he is described to be so powerful beacuse in Kotor his is the most powerful, yet all those who describe would never have had the chance to see Kun's power

Kreia had the chance to see Kun's power. Most likely Vrook and Vandaar as well.

Yet, Sadow has depicted a small portion of his force abilites that put him above Kun, and yet Kun shows force power that was never again replicated, where is the proof Revan is more powerful than Kun

The knowledge that Revan obtained from Malachor 5 obviously. Nihilus and his servants learned techniques at Malachor that allowed them to feed on the force itself. The lore that Revan obtained, having been there first and longest, is definately more significant. Malak learned enough that he could control a device known to crush any other Sith.

My fact was based upon the very fact, that Ragnos forsaw and predicted and/or the sheer power of Kun allowed him the awaken Ragnos, meaning that Kun was of a power greater than Revan in order to awaken the most powerful of the most powerful.

I doubt any Sith Lord would have approached Revan. Kreia said that Revan never really fell to the darkside. His intentions were to use the darkside to protect the Republic from the ancient sith.

no where in kotor or anywhere is it stated that Revan can contend with them, and even if they said in Kotor its completely useless, for anyone below the rank of a Jedi Master at Kun's time would be unable to tell Kun's true power

It is stated many times. Kreia specifically, who was the Jedi HISTORIAN even. If anyone, she would know the power of the ancients. She, from her studies and experiences, also knows enough about Kun to decide how Revan stands.

Also Kreia learnt the instakill...where is the proof that Revan did? If you speculate that Revan learnt then i'll speculate that Kun learnt both spawning an entire army of Sith illusions that were able to kill, and he was able to blow a star with the force.

Revan learned the instantkill not only with his close association with Traya, but also the fact he was at Malachor first. If he didn't learn the instantkill he most certainly learned something stronger. Sadow destroying the star was partly due to his meditation sphere and then himself. His powers in that case may not have been due to Sith Alchemy at all. Just his power with the force. Same with the illusions.

Also Kreia's move may not even work on Kun, how do you even know that it would be effective against Kun, it was stated to have no defense during the KOTOR TIME.

No, she said it was a move from which there is no defense. Somewhat obscure, but thats what she said.

Kreia is a powerful Jedi, however she is not on the council she is nowhere in the TOTJ comics meaning she could not have been a master of much worth and less a master that would have had a view on Kun's true power.

Um, that is because she was never made by the TOTJ people. She was made by Bioware, and so she was probably a Jedi knight at the time. She was the Jedi historian. With respect to history, and knowledge, (along with Odan) she probably knew most.

I agree with you about Revan not being approached because he never actually fell to the dark side, as that is a logical possibility. However all of your speculation on what Revan learned is just pure speculation as we really don't have a clue what he'd learned. I guess you can thank the makers of KOTOR for not including everywhere. I still think we'll know more in KOTOR III

The VERY LEAST 20. Given a Jedi Master/Sith Lord's abnormally long life span, she could have been anywhere in her sixties during that time.

True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.

Kreia had the chance to see Kun's power. Most likely Vrook and Vandaar as well.

But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.

The knowledge that Revan obtained from Malachor 5 obviously. Nihilus and his servants learned techniques at Malachor that allowed them to feed on the force itself. The lore that Revan obtained, having been there first and longest, is definately more significant. Malak learned enough that he could control a device known to crush any other Sith.

This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.

I doubt any Sith Lord would have approached Revan. Kreia said that Revan never really fell to the darkside. His intentions were to use the darkside to protect the Republic from the ancient sith.

No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.

It is stated many times. Kreia specifically, who was the Jedi HISTORIAN even. If anyone, she would know the power of the ancients. She, from her studies and experiences, also knows enough about Kun to decide how Revan stands.

Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.

Revan learned the instantkill not only with his close association with Traya, but also the fact he was at Malachor first. If he didn't learn the instantkill he most certainly learned something stronger. Sadow destroying the star was partly due to his meditation sphere and then himself. His powers in that case may not have been due to Sith Alchemy at all. Just his power with the force. Same with the illusions.

You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.

No, she said it was a move from which there is no defense. Somewhat obscure, but thats what she said.

There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.

Um, that is because she was never made by the TOTJ people. She was made by Bioware, and so she was probably a Jedi knight at the time. She was the Jedi historian. With respect to history, and knowledge, (along with Odan) she probably knew most.

Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.

Originally posted by Fishy
True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.

But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.

This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.

No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.

Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.

You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.

There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.

Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power

Originally posted by Fishy
True, she could have been 80 or a 100 and what difference would it have made? She still didn't know Kun.

But did they ever see Kun his real power, they may have felt it above Yavin IV, but did they actually witness him do anything? Did they hear anything but story's? And if they did it would have likely been on Osus when he was looting the place and they were running so it makes no real difference.

This is all bullshit, Revan has not been there the longest, Nihilus and his servants did not learn the eating technique there because it can no be learned.

He could have learned more then Kun did though from more sources but thats a could have nothing is sure, and you certainly as hell can't prove it with stating wrong facts.

No, if Revan was a Sith Lord which he was he would have met a Sith and a Sith would have proclaimed him as one, simple as that. Its how people become Sith. Who proclaimed him a Sith Lord doesn't matter as those spirits talk with eachother, and again it doesn't matter anyways if he was proclaimed a Sith or not, Exar is not more powerful because he was, Ulic was not more powerful because he was, Sidious was not more powerful because he was.

Where in Kotor was it ever stated that Revan was as powerful as Kun? The most powerful of his era, yes. But that doesn't mean Revan > Kun.

You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power.

There is no defence, if she can use it without the Exile everybody she uses it against except for the Exile and Nihilus is dead simple as that... Which again makes me believe she needed the exile to do it.

Who cares by whom she was made, she was powerful and wise but she did not know Kun.

How do you suppose Kreia learnt it then?

Oops, ignore the "Originally posted by Fishy" parts.

Again, the instakill technique is not something that can be taught. It was a fluke resulting from the would in the force caused by the Exile. Kreia most likely needs the exile to use it as it can only be used around a wound in the force. Nihilus himself was created by a wound in the force which is why he can eat the force..

Originally posted by zod360
You have no prove of anything of this, but just to fight this.

Revan couldn't have learned the instakill technique because its not something you can learn, he couldn't have learned a more powerful technique because something more powerful then that simply does not exist. And Sadow might or might not have used his meditation sphere to create the illusions, its unlikely that he did actually. There is no prove of that at all. And he didn't when he blew up the stars because he shot lightning into them while being chased by the Republic, unless you evidence that he used his meditation sphere or ship which does not exist we can just assume he did it on his own and only had those things to chanel his power

How do you suppose Kreia learnt it then?

So basically, I don't know what to say you are right but I don't want to admit it... Either adress the rest of the post or just stop replying.

And how do I think Kreia learned it? How should I know? How did the Exile learn it? How did Nihilus learn it? Actually nobody learned it, they were just able to do so. Kreia may have learned how to manipulate an already existing hole in such a way that she could use the power to rip the force out of people, but she did not learn the technique to eat the force. Nobody ever did. Kreia makes it very clear that the technique can not be learned.

And also just to make things clearer. The Jedi Council has never ever felt anything like the Exile except for when they felt Nihilus (which btw: they felt half way across the galaxy) as Nihilus was in the outer rim and they still felt what he left behind in the centre of the galaxy on Coruscant. They felt it, and they felt it too the exact same thing within the Exile, and it was strange to them. They didn't know what it was.

They did meet Revan a lot they saw him a lot, so they would have felt it before if Revan would have been able to use it, obviously he wasn't seeing as it was new to the Jedi Council.

I still maintain my theory because is logical. Nihilus learned the technique because he was the direct result of the wound in the force. Kreia learned a less effective technique because she bound her life to the exile who was a wound in the force.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
tdtd, why do you always claim that we don't know how powerful anyone is? You say it all the time and it's rather annoying.

Anyway, there's no way Revan would make it past DE Sidious.

He'd make it past quite easily actually.

I wouldn't say he would make it quite easily, in fact I'd venture a 50-50 chance.

Malak's power was being amplified by the dark side of an entire race and it's technology. Not to mention that he was described as "unstoppable" with the power of the Star Forge.

Canonically, Malak only has one confirmed extra life. For all we know, Revan drained the remaining Jedi from their slumber! And where was it said SPECIFICALLY that Malak's powers were substantially increased on the Star Forge?

The fact that he could control such as device without being killed, is a testament to how much he learned at Malachor, as well as his own power. Now Kun has never even been to Malachor.

Malachor is full of useful tidbits of Sith lore, that's true. But Kun had access to Sadow's and Nadd's stash of information. We don't know how great the knowledge on Malachor was anyways. Controlling the Star Forge only makes him more powerful than Council Members, who are potentially as weak as Coleman Trebor. Still leagues below DE Sidious.

Darth Traya, a powerful Sith learned a technique that could instantly kill three skilled Jedi masters. A technique from which there is "no defence."

No defence? Unproven statement. It kills three powerful masters, but ROTS Sidious did that too, with his saber, in seconds. Now, does that mean he can saberape everyone? No. We've only seen the instakill being used once. This is like saying Vader's force choke has no defence, because no Admiral ever resisted it.

Now Revan, who was there first, possesses much more raw force strength, intelligence, and overall more talent and thus certainly learnt more from the teachings at Malachor than even Traya. Indeed, it is because of Revan that all the other Jedi in KOTOR fell.

Now, where are you getting this from? More raw force strength? Intelligence? Overall talent? When has Revan ever demonstrated being far stronger than Traya? Never. It was not because of Revan that the Jedi in KOTOR fell, it was due to a number of things:
(40 years prior)
The Freedon Nadd uprising, the Sith War
The Mandalorian Wars
The Second Sith War (Revan)
Sion's Assasination group
A couple more things I might be forgetting.

He has never accomplished anything near the greatness of Sids (having all Jedi destroyed and conning the galaxy).

His command of the force is incredible to say the least. The Rakatan's in game describe his force storm as lightning raining from the sky, slaughtering their scouting parties.

Those force storms are small sparks compared to Sidious' power. Frying a few primitives is not impressive at all. And if he had the power to create uber Force Storms, he would have created them.

The very fact that he was described as "Power" by Kreia, who had lived during the times of Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma, speaks volumes for him. Finally, in KOTOR Revan is described as the only Jedi that can stand against the Ancient Sith, enemies who are akin to Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

Oh gee, biased old Kreia. Notice how she was the only one to describe him like this, even though there were others who were closer to him and knew him more after the mindwipe. The Ancient Sith are a bunch of wimps now for all we know (like the Rakata). After the Hyperspace War alot of stuff was lost. We have no clue how powerful they are now.

Now, Revan has a chance in a saber fight. But since we haven't seen him fight with a saber I can't judge. Revan is toast in a force fight.

There are a few problems with your arguments.
1. Malak did have more information and knowledge available to him, while it is unknown what and how much knowledge Sidious had, and what he learned on Korriban.
2. How can you compare Traya's instakill technique which logically is a fluke as a result of the Exile, to Sidious' lightsaber battles in which he ends up getting curbstomped?
3. You can't say that if Revan had the power to create force storms he would have since that's pure speculation. Traya, along all the Jedi have the power of force push, but we don't ever see her use it. And Sidious' ability to create a force storm doesn't make him more powerful than Revan.
4. For all we know the Ancient Sith could be wimps? That is 100% untrue as we all know most of these powers originated from the Ancient Sith, and they were the most powerful of the most powerful. I'm even inclined to state that the first ever dark Jedi who passed down all of this knowledge to the ancient sith, were even more powerful, such as Xendor, the first dark Jedi. Revan is a master swordsman with the two saber style whatever it is. I am more than sure he could hold his own against DE Sidious, unless DE Sidious starts moving faster than the naked eye. We know very little about Revan's force powers, so at this point we'd have to give the force fight to DE Sidious.

1. Malak did have more information and knowledge available to him, while it is unknown what and how much knowledge Sidious had, and what he learned on Korriban.

I never said Sidious had more knowledge available to him than Malak.

2. How can you compare Traya's instakill technique which logically is a fluke as a result of the Exile, to Sidious' lightsaber battles in which he ends up getting curbstomped?

Because we haven't seen her instakill being used often, only once in fact. Palp's saberrape and Traya's instakill are similar in nature, they both killed 3 Jedi. However, in ONLY Palpatine's case, someone superior came (Superior in saber skills only btw) along and beat him. Traya's instakill is an unknown.

3. You can't say that if Revan had the power to create force storms he would have since that's pure speculation. Traya, along all the Jedi have the power of force push, but we don't ever see her use it. And Sidious' ability to create a force storm doesn't make him more powerful than Revan.

Why wouldn't he have? It would have helped a good bit during all those scuffles against the Republic and the Jedi. That's like saying ROTS Sidious can conjure up large, fleet sized force storms. And Force Push isn't spectacular by any means, definatly not worth mentioning at all. And how better than to judge how powerful they are, than the power of their Force attacks?

4. For all we know the Ancient Sith could be wimps? That is 100% untrue as we all know most of these powers originated from the Ancient Sith, and they were the most powerful of the most powerful.
Remember the Rakata? Might the same deal.

I'm even inclined to state that the first ever dark Jedi who passed down all of this knowledge to the ancient sith, were even more powerful, such as Xendor, the first dark Jedi. Revan is a master swordsman with the two saber style whatever it is. I am more than sure he could hold his own against DE Sidious, unless DE Sidious starts moving faster than the naked eye. We know very little about Revan's force powers, so at this point we'd have to give the force fight to DE Sidious.

Blah blah blah, DE Sidious wins.

2. Traya's instakill only worked with the exile around.
3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?
4. No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

Blah blah blah you still haven't proven how DE Sidious would win. What, he'll unleash a force storm and kill himself along with it?

3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?

What kind of nonsense is this? Of course he would! He was at war, and it is confirmed that he did kill Jedi and Mandalorians. Why would he try to hard to devise brilliant battle plans in the second Sith War, if not to eliminate the Republic military?

No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

You haven't seen or heard the surviving Ancient Sith, therefore you cannot judge. We don't know how powerful they are now.

Originally posted by zephiel7
The VERY LEAST 20. Given a Jedi Master/Sith Lord's abnormally long life span, she could have been anywhere in her sixties during that time.

Kreia had the chance to see Kun's power. Most likely Vrook and Vandaar as well.

The knowledge that Revan obtained from Malachor 5 obviously. Nihilus and his servants learned techniques at Malachor that allowed them to feed on the force itself. The lore that Revan obtained, having been there first and longest, is definately more significant. Malak learned enough that he could control a device known to crush any other Sith.

I doubt any Sith Lord would have approached Revan. Kreia said that Revan never really fell to the darkside. His intentions were to use the darkside to protect the Republic from the ancient sith.

It is stated many times. Kreia specifically, who was the Jedi HISTORIAN even. If anyone, she would know the power of the ancients. She, from her studies and experiences, also knows enough about Kun to decide how Revan stands.

Revan learned the instantkill not only with his close association with Traya, but also the fact he was at Malachor first. If he didn't learn the instantkill he most certainly learned something stronger. Sadow destroying the star was partly due to his meditation sphere and then himself. His powers in that case may not have been due to Sith Alchemy at all. Just his power with the force. Same with the illusions.

No, she said it was a move from which there is no defense. Somewhat obscure, but thats what she said.

Um, that is because she was never made by the TOTJ people. She was made by Bioware, and so she was probably a Jedi knight at the time. She was the Jedi historian. With respect to history, and knowledge, (along with Odan) she probably knew most.

2)Where is your evidence? Where does it say Malachor V possessed the strongest and best knowledge? No where, that is pure biased towards Revan,

3) Nihilus is a wound in the force, his ability is inherent and he only learned to control it, there is no proof Revan could do the same, and he would also fall to Nihilus.

4) You doubt alot, but its probably wrong, Kun possesed power and potential greater than Revan, its demonstrated through his quick thinking and his ability to become so powerful in a such a limited amount of time, remember it could not have been more than 6 months in which Kun learnt Sadow's teachings

5) She was no historian during the time of TOTJ, and even if she was, where does it prove that she ever recorded down Kun's power? Mind you, Kreia's word is not law, she is of Revan's time, facing and teaching Revan means that she would have the clearest view on him.

6) That is again speculation, Revan never demonstrated power such as that, Kreia may have learnt it, but theres always the possiblity that Revan was tooo weak to, adding to the fact, if you want to speculate that, i can just as easily speculate Kun did what Sadow did, this has been done before, the Meditation sphere only enhances to illusions it does not create them, nor does it allow any one to.

7) Kreia's word is not law, she does not know every last thing, nor is she the most canon source around, all your arguments have been based upon what she has said, that doesnt mean jack. Oh alrite then, Kun's amulet blasts tore through huge dark side creatures empowered with the force, Kun can own Kreia, Revan and Nadd at the same time, that is exactly what your trying to say. Btw accordingly people state logically Kreia, used the power through the exile.

8) She did not know most, if she was on Ossus with Odan, then she would have perished along with them, nowhere does it state she was the Jedi Historian of TOTJ, you'll need to prove your point, without using quotes from people who knew Revan and had a first hand expericence with his power. If Revan can contend with the Ancient Sith then i can logically assume Kun is OF the Ancient Sith. Besides Revan will never have to face force users with power like Ragnos or Sadow. Your point on Revan contending with the greatest is moot.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]3. Why wouldn't it have? Because Revan never wanted to kill any members of the republic, nor do we see him killing any I don't think. We see Revan creating a force storm too but right not of the magnitude of Sidious. Does that mean he can't?

What kind of nonsense is this? Of course he would! He was at war, and it is confirmed that he did kill Jedi and Mandalorians. Why would he try to hard to devise brilliant battle plans in the second Sith War, if not to eliminate the Republic military?

No, it is pure fact that the Ancient Sith are the most powerful of the most powerful. And the most powerful tends to be the creators or the first ones, as in the Ancient Sith and more importantly, the first dark jedi.

You haven't seen or heard the surviving Ancient Sith, therefore you cannot judge. We don't know how powerful they are now. [/B]

Again Revan never fully turned to the dark side. His job was to prepare the Republic for a greater threat, not to kill of the republic.

What are you talking about? Surviving Ancient Sith? We don't know how powerful they are? Sith aren't The Highlander, they don't live forever. They were the most powerful of the most powerful compared to anybody.

Again Revan never fully turned to the dark side. His job was to prepare the Republic for a greater threat, not to kill of the republic.

lol? Having his troops kill off the Republic Military and powerful Jedi Masters is not how you prepare something for war. Revan might have had good intentions, but the fact is he did eliminate Republic forces. He hasn't ever demonstrated the ability to cook up a force storm rivaling Sids. If he had that ability, he would have used it. Revan was clearly trying to take over the Galaxy to protect it, not prepare the Republic to protect it.