What does her skill in lightsaber dueling have to do with her discription of the fight. If anything her description puts the DE Duo on a higher pedestal seeing as how force users are a lot quicker than non force users mentally and with the eyes since the force guides them, and she couldn't even see the two.
Originally posted by tdtd
But I can say that if you try and use force speed in a lightsaber fight without knowing how to control it or having balance and agility, you would hack yourself into pieces.
Possibly but how would that matter in this fight seeing as either everybody knew it, or it wouldn't make a difference anyways.
Originally posted by IKC
DE Luke isn't anything special, Glentract. It's only a couple of years post-ROTJ. He's not had time to develop much in the way of lightsaber ability or force power, nor has he shown that he has developed much. His lightsaber victory over Sidious seems more to me like Sidious' incompetance than Luke's skill.
What makes you think that? Let me quote Dark Empire on this, "You've grown very strong in the Force since we last met… But then, so have I!"
— Palpatine to Luke Skywalker
Sidious specifically states that Luke has grown very powerful in the force by this point.
1. Luke has 12 times as much training at this point as he had during ROTJ.
2. Luke was nearly equal to Joruus C'boath a full year before DE. Remember that Joruus was a very powerful force user.
3. Do you think that Luke in ROTJ could have defeated Sidious in lightsaber combat? This is a Sidious will a body that is in peak physical condidtion, not his old, weak body. Do you think that Luke could have fought at a speed faster then the eye could see in ROTJ? How would slow old Vader have lasted against him for ten seconds in he could fight that fast?
4. ROTJ Luke has never shown to have a grasp of the force that even rivals his DE state.Do you think that ROTJ Luke knew energy absorbtion to the level that he would have been able to protect himself from AT-AT blasts?
In short, Luke is very powerful by DE, much moreso then he was during ROTJ or any previous time.
Originally posted by tdtd
What does her skill in lightsaber dueling have to do with her discription of the fight. If anything her description puts the DE Duo on a higher pedestal seeing as how force users are a lot quicker than non force users mentally and with the eyes since the force guides them, and she couldn't even see the two.
Because Leia did not see enough lightsaber fights to judge what is fast and what is not.
Look at it this way.
If all you ever saw were two fist fighters duking it out, you would describe them as having incredible reflexes, assuming that you hardly ever got to test your skills in fist fighting.
Watch something like the UFC afterwards and those two fist fighters originally would not look so great.
Leia does not have enough experience or training to judge what is fast or what is not.
Originally posted by tdtd
Agreed Glentract. And fishy again, there's a difference between everybody knowing it and everybody having the ability, agility, and control to use it effectively.
Okay let me try to say this again.
It was a known technique for thousands of years.
It was a basic technique practiced by a Padawan in TPM.
That would mean the technique isn't hard to learn right?
So we know the technique can't be that hard to learn
Now if a technique that isn't hard to learn gives you a huge advantage in a duel, wouldn't you say that graet duellist would have mastered the technique as well? And revan and Malak were both great duellist.
If they wouldn't have mastered it, then perhaps you would have to realise that it wouldn't give you a great advantage at all, because otherwise somebody else who would have mastered it would have pwned their asses long ago.
And seeing as its an easy technique to learn somebody must have mastered it.
See the point?
Originally posted by tdtd
Yea I understand what you're saying but it can go both ways. You can say that they must not have found it effective enough to use and I can say that it was only mastered by a select few.
Yes you could say that, but the technique was easy to learn, so if it really would have given a huge advantage everybody would have learned it.
How do we know that the technique of enhancing the speed of your arm and legs had existed for thousands of years?
Kotor, you can learn the technique there.
Originally posted by tdtd
Youre right, there's a difference between describing someone as having incredible reflexes, and someone moving faster than the naked eye, especially a force trained one.. BIG difference
And how many lightsaber duels has she seen anyways? How much training in the force did she have? The opinion of a barely trained duelist who is going on "first few experiences" to judge speed is not enough for me to put DE Luke or Sids on any pedestal of lightsaber skill.
Originally posted by tdtd
Again Zephiel, when something is quicker than the naked eye, it is quicker than the naked eye regardless of how many lightsaber fights she's seen
Not really... A hundred years ago they described cars going with a mile a minut as so fast it was hard to see them move... 60 miles now isn't even special anymore. I mean every car does it, and ussually when your driving you are bored because you feel like your going slow.
Originally posted by tdtd
Again Zephiel, when something is quicker than the naked eye, it is quicker than the naked eye regardless of how many lightsaber fights she's seen
He means that because of the fact that she had hardly seen anybody close to the speed of Yoda move in a duel, while she may be in awe of Luke's speed would probably not be so impressed if she had seen somebody a lot faster as a comparison.
Originally posted by Fishy
Not really... A hundred years ago they described cars going with a mile a minut as so fast it was hard to see them move... 60 miles now isn't even special anymore. I mean every car does it, and ussually when your driving you are bored because you feel like your going slow.
That's good and all fishy but it doesn't apply here. Leia was a force user who's reactions were much much quicker than anybody else, and she couldn't even see it.
I dislike the way Luke's saber abilities are seen here because of his 30 seconds of losing-control-in-complete-anger-baseball-bat-swinging-action in ROTJ. You must be joking.
In ESB Vader rates Luke's skill as "impressive". In SotE you can see Luke kicking masses of bountyhunters and Black Sun guards - when the Black Sun guards were "worthy opponents" for Maul according to Shadowhunter. So even in ROTJ times Luke wasn't exactly a pushover in terms of lightsaber handling.
In DE he defeated Sidious in a lightsaber duel. You can tell me what you want but DE Sidious would be superior to his ROTS or ROTJ self (younger body, better force mastery) and as it seems only the two best duellist out of 10,000 Jedi (Mace Windu and Yoda) could defeat ROTS Sidious (+ Dooku) in terms of lightsaber duells his lightsaber skill isn't shabby exactly. At least he's vastly superior to Maul who was good enough to kill two Jedi Masters with several decades of lightsaber training.
Just talking about lightsaber combat I guess Revan and Malak would be superior to DE Luke and DE Sidious because they are both prodigies and have tons of battle experience. Although that advantage isn't really huge since Luke had some years of battle experience too and Sidious - as I said - wasn't a pushover exactly.
But this isn't just about lightsaber skills but also force powers. Luke in DE was able to block fire from an AT-AT with his bare hands as well as force lightning from DE Sidious. Sidious with his force storms is almost unbeatable if he decides to drop one of them on Revan or Malak - he has shown that he could "beam" Luke from Coruscant to Byss with that ability so if he likes to throw Malak and Revan into outer space they'll have a little problem there.
Then both of the DE team were able to move faster than the naked eye could see while fighting. I know that "force speed" is some basic ability but we've never seen somebody moving that fast while fighting (except Mace in the CW cartoons). And I guess if Dooku has problems blocking Anakin swings (ROTS novel) Malak (or Revan) might have problems blocking the same swings by Luke with higher speed - not even talking about Sidious pulling a Sidious here (surprise attack or taking the high ground as seen in ROTS).
So even when I have to admit that Luke is the weak link here when it comes down to saber vs saber combat - DE Sidious with his force storm might be able to wipe out Revan and Malak on his own IF he can use it. Otherwise he and Luke get overpowered by superior duelling skills in the end.