Originally posted by jffxex1980
A powerful TK can easily find her pressure point, concentrate enough force to shatter her. Diamond may be hard BUT it can be shattered. Storm has bested Emma when she was in her diamond form. Storm has stated that with enough wind force applied by her, a straw of hay can penetrate Emma's hide easily. Emma's not going to win this one. I would have to say Jean, Psylocke, and Emma in that order.
Just so you know...statements like that don't go far in KMC....actions speak louder then words...there was no indication that Emma's diamond form even has pressure points..as she's perfectly smooth....even Danger had to resort to blackmail in order to take Emmes out...
Anyway this fight does not inhibit Jean from tapping into the Phoenix Force...
Without the Phoenix Force I'd say Jean is out though....because a.)according to current continuity Jean is the Phoenix Force making all her feats redundant..and b.) Because the Jean before the Inferno Saga (When the PF fused itself into Jeans DNA) was nothing to shout about.
BTW Jean only bested Emma when she taps into the PF...Psylocke with the Crimson Dawn got owned on the Astral Plane by the Shadow King...
With PF:
Jean:
Emma
Psylocke
Without
Emma
Psylocke
Jean
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Just so you know...statements like that don't go far in KMC....actions speak louder then words...there was no indication that Emma's diamond form even has pressure points..as she's perfectly smooth....even Danger had to resort to blackmail in order to take Emmes out...Anyway this fight does not inhibit Jean from tapping into the Phoenix Force...
Without the Phoenix Force I'd say Jean is out though....because a.)according to current continuity Jean is the Phoenix Force making all her feats redundant..and b.) Because the Jean before the Inferno Saga (When the PF fused itself into Jeans DNA) was nothing to shout about.
BTW Jean only bested Emma when she taps into the PF...Psylocke with the Crimson Dawn got owned on the Astral Plane by the Shadow King...
With PF:
Jean:
Emma
PsylockeWithout
Emma
Psylocke
Jean
Jean wins with or without the Phoenix Force, my friend. She's just far too powerful.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
No Psylocke defeated the Shadow King actually and locked him inside her mind.
Did you read that comic? Did you see how she got her butt kicked? She got trashed in the first comic...and most of the second...then he got arrogant and decided to enter the minds of everyone one Earth he made a "Rudimentary" mistake and left his nexus unguarded...and she attacked his nexus which supposedly trapped him on the Astral plane....but it actually didn't as shown by New Excalibur..he wasn't trapped he escaped to another reality where he formed the Dark X-Men...etc...
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Jean wins with or without the Phoenix Force, my friend. She's just far too powerful.
What one feat from Pre-Retcon Jean...the one without the Phoenix would place her on par with the other two?
Remember Jean without the PF....
So lets see:
All her feats possessing the PF aren't valid....
All her feats as Marvel girl up to the first appearance of the Phoenix Force are valid....
All feats after that up to the caccoon aren't...as that wasn't Jean...
All feats after the Caccoon to the end of the Inferno arc are valid...
During the Inferno arc...the Phoenix Force is merged into Jeans DNA...so any feat after that event would count as a Phoenix/Jean event....
Now realise that's pre-retcons Jean.....the Jean in current continuity is the Phoenix...so basically all her feats are actually Phoenix/Jean feats...
Also note that Jean pre-Inferno never had Psylockes telepathy added to her own....and never had the 15 years training in the future..
Originally posted by invisiblewoman
just wondering something maybe someone can clear it up for me, but didn't jean get pissed when she found out scott and emma had an affair and jean basically kicked her ass? i'm not sure but i read about it somewhere and can't quite remember.
New X-Men #139 I think it's #139....? Yeah she goes all Phoenixy on Emma once the Cuckoos inform her about their affair....in any event that's Phoenix/Jean..
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
New X-Men #139 I think it's #139....? Yeah she goes all Phoenixy on Emma once the Cuckoos inform her about their affair....in any event that's Phoenix/Jean..
ahhh... i see and is that the same issue that emma was shattered by a diamond bullet? (i know it has nothing to do with the jean v emma v psylocke)
I was under the impression that it was the memories of the goblyn queen and phoenix that jean absorbed at the end of inferno, she rid herself of what she absorbed from them when she helped scott to increase his optic blast against galactus or something like that.
Since when is being in a coma leaving your body? people in comas retreat into their minds, a psychic coma would just imply that the person can cause themselves to go into a coma on demand, and whether she evicted her from her body or not the transfer was so complete that Jean was able to take her tk with her, and Xaiver himself said that it was impossible to do. When Dr. Doom and his Seer traveled through time to find the origins of Onslaught they encountered the Phoenix/Jean entity twice, and then Jean herself in which the Seer said there was no trace of the Phoenix, so after she expunged those memories she was Jean, who was reaching her omega level status as Phoenix at a normal rate.
Originally posted by LordKaos
I was under the impression that it was the memories of the goblyn queen and phoenix that jean absorbed at the end of inferno, she rid herself of what she absorbed from them when she helped scott to increase his optic blast against galactus or something like that.Since when is being in a coma leaving your body? people in comas retreat into their minds, a psychic coma would just imply that the person can cause themselves to go into a coma on demand, and whether she evicted her from her body or not the transfer was so complete that Jean was able to take her tk with her, and Xaiver himself said that it was impossible to do. When Dr. Doom and his Seer traveled through time to find the origins of Onslaught they encountered the Phoenix/Jean entity twice, and then Jean herself in which the Seer said there was no trace of the Phoenix, so after she expunged those memories she was Jean, who was reaching her omega level status as Phoenix at a normal rate.
It was the memories, soul, essence and life-force of the Phoenix and Goblyn Queen.
She got rid of Maddies memories. The essence and life-force was engrained into her etc
Xavier and Jean couldn't sense a mind in Emmas body or psychic trace...so you tell me? Her mind lingered in a psychic coma over the body...that's why Forges machinery went hay wire...
That TK thing was never explained....and Emma has shown signs of being a latent telekinetic..so Jean could have tapped into that....
The seer would have been wrong then....because as of current continuity the Phoenix is Jean...so retcon away....and the Seer never said after those memories were expunged the Phoenix was removed from her...she just said she could sense no trace...implying that she couldn't sense it...
BTW As of current continuity her Omega Level mutation is the Phoenix...
The seer was a man he sensed no trace of the Phoenix force, Jean is the Phoenix avatar she is not always in possession of the Phoenix consciousness, Jean and Xaiver couldn't sense a mind in Emma after Jean was already out of it, was it said that Emma was responsible for her condition or could it be that jeans actions caused the psychic coma you speak of, if emma had caused the coma herself then why didn't she undo it when her body was vacant it was obvious her body wasn't damage or Jean would not have been able to use it, she instead possessed Iceman. When her diamond body was destroyed her consciousness lingered in that same state, but she did not cause it her death at the hands of somebody else did. It was never hinted that Emma was a telekinetic until after Jean inhabited her body, which could mean Jean left traces of tk in her, which is something like her swapping powers with Psylocke who still had tk even after Jean got hers back.
BTW I'm fully aware that her omega level is Phoenix that's why I said she was able to reach her omega level status as Phoenix at a normal rate, without the consciousness interfering.
Originally posted by LordKaos
The seer was a man he sensed no trace of the Phoenix force, Jean is the Phoenix avatar she is not always in possession of the Phoenix consciousness, Jean and Xaiver couldn't sense a mind in Emma after Jean was already out of it, was it said that Emma was responsible for her condition or could it be that jeans actions caused the psychic coma you speak of, if emma had caused the coma herself then why didn't she undo it when her body was vacant it was obvious her body wasn't damage or Jean would not have been able to use it, she instead possessed Iceman. When her diamond body was destroyed her consciousness lingered in that same state, but she did not cause it her death at the hands of somebody else did. It was never hinted that Emma was a telekinetic until after Jean inhabited her body, which could mean Jean left traces of tk in her, which is something like her swapping powers with Psylocke who still had tk even after Jean got hers back.BTW I'm fully aware that her omega level is Phoenix that's why I said she was able to reach her omega level status as Phoenix at a normal rate, without the consciousness interfering.
He couldn't sense a trace of the Phoenix Force...it doesn't mean it wasn't their...as she had it in New X-Men and has shown the fiery raptor on numerous occasions. She is not in possession of the Phoenix consciousness because the consiousness has a mind of it's own and speaks to Jean when needed but she is in possession of the Force...as shown in New X-Men...
The White Queen was announced "Lifeless" pages before Jean transferred her mind...so nope Jean was not the cause...how do you undo something when you're in a psychic coma..that's why she did it...it was a life or death situation...and in New X-Men it was never stated whether or not Emma caused the Coma herself when she was shattered...
Um...mutations are genetic...when Emma and Storm switched minds...they both kept their powers...leaving TK traces? Where'd you get that from?
The Betsy power swap...was unique...it was also undocumented...
The consiousness only talks to Jean when it's needed to...the Force itself is Jeans mutation as shown in Endsong...and New X-Men...the fragments are pieces of her...
Xaiver said that Jean completely transferred her mind and powers, you said emma placed herself in a psychic coma, when? was if before or after the attack, why would a person in physical danger make themselves more vulnerable? So then we can suspect that she was killed and her being a powerful telepath allows her to linger after death. If in fact the body was lifeless it only proves my point more because that means Jean can reanimate a dead body just by putting her mind into it. Jean is the superior psi.
Originally posted by LordKaos
Xaiver said that Jean completely transferred her mind and powers, you said emma placed herself in a psychic coma, when? was if before of after the attack, why would a person in physical danger make themselves more vulnerable? So then we can suspect that she was killed and her being a powerful telepath allows her to linger after death. If in fact the body was lifeless it only proves my point more because that means Jean can reanimate a dead body just by putting her mind into it.
No he said she transferred her mind only...Jean also said she transferred her mind only, where are you seeing this power thing?
She placed herself in a coma as she saw the sentinels....she wasn't going to make it out alive...so the next best thing is place herself in a psychic coma so they think she's dead and leave her alone...(Drastic measures used in a drastic situation)
Xavier even states that he would have sensed a powerful psychic like the White Queen die...had she died...
Jeans body survived without a mind...
And Jean can't reanimate the dead in that way....because the White Queen wasn't dead per say...she was in a "dead like" state...but not dead...
So no...
If a bullet can shatter Emma in pieces, you honestly think a strong TK like Jean can't do it? Her TK is so strong that it operates on a MOLECULAR level. She can easily sever the atomic bonds of carbon in Emma's body in diamond form and she'd be nothing more than floating molecules. She is far too experienced and powerful to be taken by Emma or Psylocke. NOT only Emma loses telepathy in diamond form BUT she also becomes susceptible to mental assaults. It's a trade off. Remember, she was held in place by some floating brain (I do not know the name of the brain but it's the same brain later on that appears with the good Cassandra Nova and follows her around on a leash) before and got punched in the face and she had to revert back to her human form to use her telepathy. U know damn well, regardless without the phoenix force, she's too damn strong to be taken lightly.
Originally posted by jffxex1980
If a bullet can shatter Emma in pieces, you honestly think a strong TK like Jean can't do it? Her TK is so strong that it operates on a MOLECULAR level. She can easily sever the atomic bonds of carbon in Emma's body in diamond form and she'd be nothing more than floating molecules. She is far too experienced and powerful to be taken by Emma or Psylocke. NOT only Emma loses telepathy in diamond form BUT she also becomes susceptible to mental assaults. It's a trade off. Remember, she was held in place by some floating brain (I do not know the name of the brain but it's the same brain later on that appears with the good Cassandra Nova and follows her around on a leash) before and got punched in the face and she had to revert back to her human form to use her telepathy. U know damn well, regardless without the phoenix force, she's too damn strong to be taken lightly.
Firstly Phoenix/Jean's TK works on a molecular level...not non-phoenix Jean...secondly the bullet shattered her flaw..which she doesn't seem to have anymore...since the Phoenix put her back together and Danger had to resort to blackmail to take Emma out...thirdly it was a Psychic Chaff a chemical that the brain uses to control Emma...not waves...Cassandra Nova couldn't use her telepathy against Emma when she was in diamond form as shown in New X-Men...her mind was "mirrored"
And I already said Phoenix/Jean would win....however Jean without the Phoenix...would lose...
Again...what feat does (Non-Phoenix Jean)Pre-Inferno Jean have that even puts her on par with the other two...
Before the retcon Jean was bonded to the Phoenixes life-force and essence at the end of the Inferno arc...anything after that would count as Jean/Phoenix...after the latest retcon Jean is the Phoenix...so if we take current continuity she automatically loses because all Jeans feats are Jean/Phoenix feats...and if we take Pre-Retcons Jean...then you have to use the Jean(No Phoenix Entity, no Clones) before the Inferno arc...which limits her feats. Everything from her first appearance to the first appearance of the PF is valid...everything after that and up to the cacoon is not...everything after the cacoon to the Inferno arc is...everything after the Inferno arc isn't....no clone feats allowed...and no Phoenix feats allowed...