Psylocke vs Jean Grey vs Emma Frost

Cassandra has called Emma a bush league telepath. Jean is only second to xavier in telepathy. She had been taught by the best. She's a skilled TK. I hardly doubt, Emma could get through Jean's forcefield. AND keep in mind that this is the same chica that shielded the ENTIRE New York city from an atomic blast in the age of Apocalypse. You're giving her little credit....so little credit to what she can do. Like I said before, all she needs to do is sever the carbon bonds and Emma is nothing more than house dust.

"Frost's full range of abilities between her diamond state and regular form have also been inconsistent; while some occurances would have some readers believe that due to a genetic flaw Frost cannot access her telepathy in diamond form, later stories have contradicted this. However, recent clarifications in X-Men #190 and Astonishing X-Men have shown that Morrison's initial depiction of her powers was correct: that Frost cannot access her psychic powers in diamond form and vice versa."

I think Jean (no phoenix/pre phoenix) isn't really weak nor she is really super strong as in cosmic strong. I read somwhere that from the very start, professor x already knew about the omega class mutants and he already know that iceman and jean are both omega he just didn't say anything to anyone about the whole thing. And this was before the phoenix. So even if Jean had no connection to the phoenix, she is still omega like iceman. That is if what i've read is accurate.

Originally posted by jffxex1980
Cassandra has called Emma a bush league telepath. Jean is only second to xavier in telepathy. She had been taught by the best. She's a skilled TK. I hardly doubt, Emma could get through Jean's forcefield. AND keep in mind that this is the same chica that shielded the ENTIRE New York city from an atomic blast in the age of Apocalypse. You're giving her little credit....so little credit to what she can do. Like I said before, all she needs to do is sever the carbon bonds and Emma is nothing more than house dust.

"Frost's full range of abilities between her diamond state and regular form have also been inconsistent; while some occurances would have some readers believe that due to a genetic flaw Frost cannot access her telepathy in diamond form, later stories have contradicted this. However, recent clarifications in X-Men #190 and Astonishing X-Men have shown that Morrison's initial depiction of her powers was correct: that Frost cannot access her psychic powers in diamond form and vice versa."

A mere insult...Emma has been described on panel by the narrative as a Psi of the Highest Order...

Firstly...in a battle between teleapaths it always ends up in a Telepathic fight....as it's their quickest for of attack...so it's doubtful Diamond Form, Tk etc will come into play.... in any event....telepathic attacks can by pass TK shields...

Secondly AoA is an alternate reality..and therefore can't be used when debating 616 characters...

Thirdly I don't think you understand what I'm saying...Jean without the Phoenix (Pre-Retcons Jean) has never had TK that worked on a Molecular level....also..as stated above...TP is the fastest attack they have...meaning it'll come down to a TP battle...and finally Pre-Retcon Jean you know the one before the Inferno Arc...was never anything to shout about...again I ask what has she ever done that would place her on par with Psylocke or Emma?

As for the Diamond/Telepathy thing...that's not what I said at all...I said Nova was unable to use her telepathy on Emmas mind when she was in Diamond Form...so go figure...

BTW As for the Diamond/Telepathy access...it's debatable....Emma has used her telepathy and diamond form similtaneously on more then 3 occasions...the character Emma Frost is supposed to be handled by Whedon...and yes she's used them both similtaneously in AXM(she's also used it in Morrisons run)...so as you can see X-Men #190 isn't Emma's official book....so if there is a contradiction Whedons view would be the right one...

Originally posted by psy_blade
I think Jean (no phoenix/pre phoenix) isn't really weak nor she is really super strong as in cosmic strong. I read somwhere that from the very start, professor x already knew about the omega class mutants and he already know that iceman and jean are both omega he just didn't say anything to anyone about the whole thing. And this was before the phoenix. So even if Jean had no connection to the phoenix, she is still omega like iceman. That is if what i've read is accurate.

As of current continuity Jean is the Phoenix...Jeans Omega mutation is the Phoenix Force..so nope Jean as of current continuity has never existed without the Phoenix...and that is why Jean(No Phoenix) automatically loses when we use current continuity...

Now Pre-Retcons Jean has...but she's only existed without it before the Inferno Saga...during this saga...the Phoenix was embedded into Jean....it's life force it's essence etc.... and that Jean was nothing to shout about....

Most of you are talking about jean phoenix and just don't know what jean w/o phoenix's boost are like. Jean grey w/o phoenix isn't even near being in the top ten of telepath's. Her tk was low leveled as well, she was a mediocre mutant and was very unpopular because she wouldn't pass out from trying to use cerebro while on the other hand Emma had no problem using it. Normal Jean has never beat Emma frost and the only person that could was professor x or shadow king. Who were the only telepaths that could get the best of her. Most of you are talking about phoenix's accomplishments as a telepath and telekinetic. So you don't know what your talking about so just learn from those that do and until you learn stop submitting these stupid post.

Jean w/o phoenix would lie in the beta level category because her powers were extremely limited to the point that all telepaths that x-men faced could easily control her.

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Jean w/o phoenix would lie in the beta level category because her powers were extremely limited to the point that all telepaths that x-men faced could easily control her.

A bit harsh there...Jean would still be an Omega mutant...

The point I was trying to make is that

A.) According to current continuity Jeans mutation is the Phoenix..here Omeganess is the Phoenix...the Phoenix has always been Jean Grey...therefore there is no such thing as Jean without the Phoenix...which means Jean has no feats without the Phoenix...therefore Jean Grey(Without the Phoenix ) loses.

and

B.) Now if we take the Jean before the many retcons...Jean and the Phoenix were seperate entities...in her first appearance...she wasn't the Phoenix...so her feats from this day to the first appearance of the PF are valid...the PF then duplicated Jean and placed the REAL Jean in a cacoon...so any feats after this are void....after the caccoon was found...the REAL Jean emerged...and her feats from this point to the Inferno arc are valid...during the Inferno arc...Jean and Madeylne were about to die...but the Phoenix saved Jean by merding it's Memories, Life-Force, Essence and Soul etc into her...therefore any appearances after this would count as Jean/Phoenix appearances...

And that is why Pre-retcons Jean who is so limited in Phoenixless feats would lose...

Jean is a low leveled mutant w/o phoenix I'm just stating it how the comics had it. JEan would be an omega w/o phoenix because she could never reach that point on her own that was the point of making an enity that she use to expand her powers. That was the only way to make her an more popular character. Marvel comics said this themselves, so Jean no phoenix is the first one taken out then psylocke and emma battle but I think emma would prevail in the end. Emma is a powerful mutant with telepathic powers alone plus her secondary mutantation makes her very durable.

This Jean/phoenix/omega is all so confusing. Does this mean Jean is in a class of her own? Like, she's class special-omega or something? Because Iceman is an omega but he cant be phoenix right? And what would've happened to Jean and her omeganess if she didn't drive that space shuttle and have never met the phoenix force?

omega means that that person has unlimited power phoenix has unlimited telekinetic power and telepathic powers, iceman has unlimited hydrokientic powers. Just because someone is an omega doesn't mean they are unbeatable. In my personal opion I feel that Phoenix should have been the only omega since she is trually knowledgeable of her full powers

So it means Jean has unlimited telepathic and telekinetic power? And Iceman has unlimited power to control cold?

Originally posted by psy_blade
This Jean/phoenix/omega is all so confusing. Does this mean Jean is in a class of her own? Like, she's class special-omega or something? Because Iceman is an omega but he cant be phoenix right? And what would've happened to Jean and her omeganess if she didn't drive that space shuttle and have never met the phoenix force?

The Phoenix is her mutation....Iceman could very well become a "Phoenix" of his own someday...that space thing was retconned...and..they never gave a proper explanation for the many retcons....though..

BTW Omega is just potential...unlimited potential in their mutation...this doesn't mean the potential will be realized(i.e. Iceman)....meaning you could have an Omega mutant who is so pathetic that they'd be beaten by Beak..

If Iceman could very well become a "phoenix" of his own someday does this mean has the potential to hold a galaxy in his hands like Jean or something close to that feat? Im sorry im lost.

omega is to have unlimited power of a mutant ability, that is why I said phoenix should be the only omega because she has reached her level of power Iceman and most of the other omegas only have potential

Originally posted by psy_blade
If Iceman could very well become a "phoenix" of his own someday does this mean has the potential to hold a galaxy in his hands like Jean or something close to that feat? Im sorry im lost.

I meant "Phoenix" as in something in the power range of the Phoenix...an ultimate mutation..don't know what his ultimate mutation would be like though...so can't tell you that..what we've been told is that all Omegas possess infinite potential...but that doesn't mean they'll realize it....

Ice man cannot become a phoneix more like a all powerful hydrokinetic/thermokinetic phoenix is something that is unique and wouldn't manefest like the way it did with jean the probelm with the whole omega thing is that marvel contridicts itself because one minute they say that to be an omega means to be all powerful like phoenix the next mutants only have to master powers.

Originally posted by ddsmrt
Ice man cannot become a phoneix more like a all powerful hydrokinetic/thermokinetic phoenix is something that is unique and wouldn't manefest like the way it did with jean the probelm with the whole omega thing is that marvel contridicts itself because one minute they say that to be an omega means to be all powerful like phoenix the next mutants only have to master powers.

I never said he would become a Phoenix..."Phoenix" is different from Phoenix 😕 ...I meant "Phoenix" as in the same power-range as the Jean/Phoenix....meh....the term Omega is senseless...and Omega PLUS is even worse...

and I thought I was long winded [not you Exodus.]

a telepaths power increases with use/practice. Miss Grey's been honing, fielding, exploring & perfecting her tp from day 1. Through rigorous excercise she has earnt an alpha/omega ranking

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
A bit harsh there...Jean would still be an Omega mutant...

The point I was trying to make is that

A.) According to current continuity Jeans mutation is the Phoenix..here Omeganess is the Phoenix...the Phoenix has always been Jean Grey...therefore there is no such thing as Jean without the Phoenix...which means Jean has no feats without the Phoenix...therefore Jean Grey(Without the Phoenix ) loses.

and

B.) Now if we take the Jean before the many retcons...Jean and the Phoenix were seperate entities...in her first appearance...she wasn't the Phoenix...so her feats from this day to the first appearance of the PF are valid...the PF then duplicated Jean and placed the REAL Jean in a cacoon...so any feats after this are void....after the caccoon was found...the REAL Jean emerged...and her feats from this point to the Inferno arc are valid...during the Inferno arc...Jean and Madeylne were about to die...but the Phoenix saved Jean by merding it's Memories, Life-Force, Essence and Soul etc into her...therefore any appearances after this would count as Jean/Phoenix appearances...

And that is why Pre-retcons Jean who is so limited in Phoenixless feats would lose...

Not true at all. Jeans omeganess as you put it is not down to the Phoenix. Her omega potential is what makes her a suitable vessel for the Phoenix. The potential itself, the power level isnt Phoenix. It just allows for it.

Jean when not manifesting the Phoenix is stated to be the second most powerful telepath on the planet. Emma Frost even acknowledges that Jean is greater than her.

Jean is also listed as one of the most powerful telekinetics on the planet.

Before Jean became the Phoenix again in New X-men she was shown to be the superior telepath in the silent issue of New X-men when she lead Emma through a psychic exploration of Xaviers mind.

In battle with a telekinetic Emma cant risk NOT being in diamond form and in her diamond form she by canon has no telepathy.

There are many articles onlime by the writers about Emma not being able to use it in her diamond form. The ONE instance where she has been shown to do so was an error. In all of her other appearances since her secondary mutation, appearances even after that ONE incident its established that she has no telepathy in that form.

Limited to her diamond form its an easy matter for Jean to break her down at a molecular level. She did after all restructure Emma at such a level previously nearly a year before she became the Phoenix in issue 150 of New X-men.