Wow before I get to say anything good Wesker comes in and sums it up.
Illegal immigrants should have to work to become legal and there should be rules in place to help facilitate that but not take alot of the effort away.
People attempting to become illegal immigrants ie running the border now, should just get shipped back and be looking up at big tall fences here in the future with minimal entrances to keep track and not mad dash to the USA.
Like someone said, it's called illegal for a reason. I don't have any problem with making the laws more harsh. I think it's a good thing. I don't have issues with people who don't speak english. I don't have a problem with people who want to maintain their original or ethnic culture and traditions. But, they need to be paying into the system just like those of us who are here legally or were lucky enough to be born here. Sure, they pay sales tax and buy goods and services too. But we all do that, and we all pay more than is fair or necessary on top of it...and so too should they. But, also as some one said earlier, in addition to tightening the laws governing the illegal immigrants, they should also make the legal process run more smoothly. However, it shouldn't be an easy thing to pick up and move to another country. Especially in this day of global terrorism.
But, in all honesty, I'd trade 1 Andy Milonakis for 12 million illegal immigrants.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I was at that demonstration; just like southern segregation in the '60's, immigration policies are a tool for racism.FistOfThe North and Arachnoidfreak, you guys are Latino, do you think the bill should be passed?
It's really not about whether they are Latino or not, they're illegal immigrants. "Illegal" being the key word there. What I think should be done is that becoming a legal immigrant should be made easier, so they can be more productive parts of society. 12 million people adding to the economy is alot.
Yet if an illegal immigrant doesn't even try to learn the language and become a real citizen, then to hell with them.
Originally posted by Wesker
Really? They need to step on this problem already. If they can't be bothered to become citizens legally (At least attempt the process... and most of them don't even speak English. I learned that from three years in El Paso), why should anyone coddle them and say it's okay? It's illegal immigration. We as a nation have the right to stand up and say "Hey, this is enough." There's 12 million or so of them already over here. How many other first world countries have that many ILLEGAL immigrants? None. This is ridiculous. It isn't about them taking jobs we don't want; it's about the fact that you have millions of people living here who aren't US citizens. Do you think that if 12 million Romanians moved into France or Germany illegally, the latter would just be like "Okay" and let it slide? Nope. I mean, who's going to house all of these people? What if they deliver babies here so they can be citizens? Is that fair? Should they suddenly be granted rights in that case either?I'm not saying we shouldn't have immigration, and I'm not saying this because it's primarily Mexicans coming over either; I'm saying that the enormous amount of undereducated, non-English speaking people pouring into a country that's already made the world landmark in national debt is a recipe for disastor. Obviously Mexico sucks so bad that 12 million of its former inhabitants and their descendants are in this country. Instead of fleeing, they should be back home trying to make things better. This is not a get out of jail free card... You come over here and get a job illegally, live here illegally, and most reap the benefits of being in the US and forms of aid, etc... That's not fair to the rest of us. I'm pretty sure if we sent over enormous groups of undereducated, English speaking individuals who demanded classes be taught in English, signs and driver's tests be in English, that Mexico celebrate the Fourth of July, etc. White History month... Please. That wouldn't fly two seconds in any other nation in the world. Why should we take up a standard that no one else will?
I say let's make the process available for those who do intend to stay here. They should have to know English because it IS the language on the money, and the damn Constitution is written in it, as are all the damn laws in the country. They should maintain consistant residence for their first few years in the country, and they should have to prove that they're getting a job and trying to maintain a home. The rest who fail to reach that level of commitment to becoming Americans can go home in droves.
What he said.
Originally posted by soleran30
12 million illegal aliens plus the illegal employers.....................I prefer the idea we just annex Mexico to the USA and let them live in our newest state.
Why annex another country? It would simply mean more borders that we don't look after? Illegal employers are an issue. However, what happens when the employer is as easily fooled as the government that serves them? This point of view also serves the people who support racism as a motivation for more strict laws and regulations. It isn't just the Mexican nationals that are making it into this country illegally.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Why annex another country? It would simply mean more borders that we don't look after? Illegal employers are an issue. However, what happens when the employer is as easily fooled as the government that serves them? This point of view also serves the people who support racism as a motivation for more strict laws and regulations. It isn't just the Mexican nationals that are making it into this country illegally.
Well mine was a post of slight levity.....................I want mexico for another state like I want a well never mind 😱
Is it a bootheel for racism? Perhaps there are some that will use it as a tool to facilitate that means, however when I look at it from the illegal part it pisses me off.
They cross illegally and get caught they get deported (after they get food and shelter which they already have a hard time getting.) Now if I as a US citizen commit a fellony I am foocked.............make the ones in the US learn English and our culture and bust their ass to live here after 4 or 5 years let them stay if they can do it right.
Originally posted by soleran30
bust their ass to live here after 4 or 5 years let them stay if they can do it right.
yeah, but right is subjective. I'm second generation. That means, for our viewing audience, that my father was the first born here. His parents spoke German-Swiss his whole life. They knew English, but only because they knew it before they came here. But this country wasn't founded ON one race/language/culture. Despite it being "founded" by one "race/language/culture". But they founded this country, maybe with no one else in mind, but they didn't word it that way. And when they did, it has since been found unconstitutional. So, we have only tomorrow to deal with, not yesterday.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
It's really not about whether they are Latino or not, they're illegal immigrants. "Illegal" being the key word there. What I think should be done is that becoming a legal immigrant should be made easier, so they can be more productive parts of society. 12 million people adding to the economy is alot.Yet if an illegal immigrant doesn't even try to learn the language and become a real citizen, then to hell with them.
Yes, immigrants should learn English. If a person decides to become the citizen or resident of another country, than they should learn the language of the land. If I ever decide to move to South Korea, you can bet that I'll be learning Hangul (Korean; I picked up quite a bit when I was in the Army).
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
yeah, but right is subjective. I'm second generation. That means, for our viewing audience, that my father was the first born here. His parents spoke German-Swiss his whole life. They knew English, but only because they knew it before they came here. But this country wasn't founded ON one race/language/culture. Despite it being "founded" by one "race/language/culture". But they founded this country, maybe with no one else in mind, but they didn't word it that way. And when they did, it has since been found unconstitutional. So, we have only tomorrow to deal with, not yesterday.
Yes which is why you being "only" second generation certainly isn't in question about your freedoms or liberty's or citizenship. Which is why I specify illegal immigrants and not citizens that came through Liberty Island symbolically speaking. The situation we deal with today is different then yesterday and we need different answers.
When someone works for something the perceived value tends to be higher because now they place a value on their work and effort. Which is what should be happening for most immigrants to become citizens today. I certainly don't want outlandish fees placed on struggling immigrants however there should be work for "USA" and not just themselves in coming here.
Honestly, I don't think congress is going to do anything. Eitherway there is no right answer. (what i thnk @least) I know the House is more strict on the issue, they want to build a fence along the mexican border, and they want (or have passed) to make it a felony to come in here illegally and/or help an illegal. Now... they say its to protect our conuntries from terrorist.... but didnt the hijikars come through Canada? Why not build a border up there too since we're at it? The senate doesnt know what they want, Guest Worker program is on the table, there are talks of amnesty and making those 11 mill+ legal, proposals to give out more green cards or whatever. I don't think it's right to make those illegal immigrants all of the sudden legal. It's not fair for those who came he the right way, who have wasted alot of time and money. My parents came here illegally and so I do sympathize, but that isn't the answer. Guest worker program I thnk will only bring more people, and i dunno what if those people dont want to go back after times up? Wont they just stay.... and no1 will do anything about it... like having a green card and its expired, its not like the next day some1 is going to be knocking at your door and ready to deport you. One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?
Originally posted by soleran30
Yes which is why you being "only" second generation certainly isn't in question about your freedoms or liberty's or citizenship. Which is why I specify illegal immigrants and not citizens that came through Liberty Island symbolically speaking. The situation we deal with today is different then yesterday and we need different answers.When someone works for something the perceived value tends to be higher because now they place a value on their work and effort. Which is what should be happening for most immigrants to become citizens today. I certainly don't want outlandish fees placed on struggling immigrants however there should be work for "USA" and not just themselves in coming here.
I can't disagree with that. But, it is unreasonable to expect illegal immigrants to work "for the people", when we can't even get our own government to work "for the people". But, I suppose that's another thread.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I can't disagree with that. But, it is unreasonable to expect illegal immigrants to work "for the people", when we can't even get our own government to work "for the people". But, I suppose that's another thread.
Well I didn't mean like work socially for us as in volunteer work.
One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?
as per XxILuvVegetaxX ............
what she said is more in line with my expectations as well.
Originally posted by soleran30
Well I didn't mean like work socially for us as in volunteer work.One the plans, I heard, is for those 11+ mill illegals have to pay $2,000.00, take classes in english, go through a background check, and live here atleast 7 years to gain resedency, now I think that's resonable! What do you guys think?
as per XxILuvVegetaxX ............
what she said is more in line with my expectations as well.
I didn't mean "socially" either. I mean "for the people", as in "of the people, by the people and for the people."