If contact with the dead is forbidden, why pray to Jesus?

Originally posted by Punker69

Its not medieval thinking. Its Biblical thinking. Ok lets look at it from the standpoint that her grandfather is in hell. Hell is a place of torture. Something that the people in hell are going to want to leave when they please. Where's the punishment in hell if you can wander around as you please. The verse in look is an excellent example of the wide gap that seperates the afterlife, paradise, and earth.

Cut off everything before the comma and you have a question without rational answers.

Originally posted by debbiejo
What I mean by medieval was that when we don't understand something we automatically blame it on Satan or demons. And scripture never says hell is a place or torture. Hell/Sheol only mean death, nothing more.

Dont take my word for it. Like I said. The Bible says to test the spirits to see if they are of God or not. I told the person that the next time they see the spirit they should ask them to profess belief in Jesus Christ. Demons cannot do that. I gurantee you the spirit will do no such thing.

Read the verse in Luke. The rich man told Abraham to have mercy on him and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool his tongue "for I am tormented in this flame"

How much plainer do you need it?

Originally posted by Punker69
Dont take my word for it. Like I said. The Bible says to test the spirits to see if they are of God or not. I told the person that the next time they see the spirit they should ask them to profess belief in Jesus Christ. Demons cannot do that. I gurantee you the spirit will do no such thing.

Read the verse in Luke. The rich man told Abraham to have mercy on him and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool his tongue "for I am tormented in this flame"

How much plainer do you need it?

Originally posted by debbiejo
This is a common Pentecostal view of demons are everywhere unfortunately.

And who's to say it wasn't really her grandfather.

Sorry but that is absolutely preposterous and a fallacy. Don't assume that every Christian church believes that just because you were unfortunately apart of one that did.

It very well could be her grandfather's soul we just don't know.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That was like a parable story, not real.

God gives us parables to illustrate moral truths.They speak directly at critical issues.

Then Jesus said, 'He who has ears to hear, let him hear.' When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, 'The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.' (Mark 4:9-12)

Originally posted by Echuu
It very well could be her grandfather's soul we just don't know.

Go read the Bible and find out for yourself. And yes ALOT of Christians believe the same way I do.

Because Jesus isn't dead. simple as that...

To dispute Punker, demons do believe in Jesus Christ and tremble (somewhere in James). But in his support, if hell was not a place of absolute horror, why would the demons that Jesus cast out rather be sent into the pigs than back to the Abyss. Hell is the absolute abscence of God. Without God there can only be death, pain, and suffering (Jesus says he is the life), and no good can exist in hell. Remember that Satan rules in hell and his pleasure comes from our sufferring.

Originally posted by Punker69
Its not medieval thinking. Its Biblical thinking.

Basically the same thing.

Ok lets look at it from the standpoint that her grandfather is in hell. Hell is a place of torture. Something that the people in hell are going to want to leave when they please. Where's the punishment in hell if you can wander around as you please. The verse in look is an excellent example of the wide gap that seperates the afterlife, paradise, and earth.

Why does her grandfather have to be in hell? Why cant you assume that he's in heaven and wandering around freely?

Because the idea of heaven being a place people can leave wasn't in the book, therefore it must not be true according to any bonafide Christian. Of course, Jesus never shits in the Bible, but I assume he can. Maybe people shouldn't be so literal with the book.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Basically the same thing.

Why does her grandfather have to be in hell? Why cant you assume that he's in heaven and wandering around freely?

Same thing. I wasn't assuming he was in hell just taking that standpoint for my anology. It works the same way if he was in paradise.

Originally posted by Wesker
Because the idea of heaven being a place people can leave wasn't in the book, therefore it must not be true according to any bonafide Christian. Of course, Jesus never shits in the Bible, but I assume he can. Maybe people shouldn't be so literal with the book.

Lazarus couldnt leave heaven to put a dip of water on the rich mans tongue. He called it a "great gulf" that was impassable and seperated them.

Originally posted by The Disagreer
Remember that Satan rules in hell and his pleasure comes from our sufferring.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That is not in scripture. Satan is NOT in hell and no where does it say there's going to be tortures.

Some of these people have never read all of the bible.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That is not in scripture. Satan is NOT in hell and no where does it say there's going to be tortures.

Hell is a holding place until final judgement for sinners. Then Satan, his demons, and hell is going to be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hell is a place of torture. Just like the Lake of Fire. Are you guys even reading the scriptures about the rich man and the begger? The rich man asked Lazarus to dip his finger in water and touch his tongue because "I burn". How much plainer does it need to be?

Originally posted by debbiejo
This is a common Pentecostal view of demons are everywhere unfortunately. And who's to say it wasn't really her grandfather. There are many people who say they've seen people that have passed on. They never did anyone harm or evil.

The prescence of a demon (especially in the form of a family member) may not necessarily be to cause hurt or evil.

It can distract her, lead her astray, and cause her to not believe in the Lord, ..... which I'm guessing, someone may have been trying to share with her in the recent past.

The devil hates that stuff,... she may become a powerfull Christian leader some day, and Satan would love to have her spinning in circles, not sure about heaven/hell/ angels/demons/ ... "is there a God", etc.....

Exactly what he said. I recommend the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis to anyone wishing to understand how Satan influences our lives without seeming purely evil.

Originally posted by Punker69
Your question was [B]stupid .[/B]

Knock that shit off. I don't call your questions stupid so don't you DARE call mine stupid. Are you that 13 year old that got banned for being underage? If so, I wont even bother talking to you. Your age is proof of just how narrow-minded and

It's a fair question.

You said Jesus isn't dead, then he didn't die from your sins.

If he 'rose again' then that to me is what I call 'the living-dead' and therefore is dead.

Then what of people that have been considered medically dead and suddenly return to life. Are these people dead as well.
No. Jesus did die so that we can be forgiven and rose from the dead to provide us freedom from sin for the "The wages of sin is death" (somewhere in Psalms). If Jesus rose from the dead then he defeated sin and we can as well if we live by the Holy Spirit. Sorry for going off topic.

Of course, thats if you believe in heaven and hell etc., I believe I have more of a chance of seeing a night rainbow with elves and gremlins dancing on top of it than there is a heaven/hell.