Originally posted by Wesker
OMG... GV... This match was done before. Yoda has NO chance against a guy that keeps people like Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow in line on his death bed.
And why should Yoda be afraid of Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow???
Its been suggested in many sources(ROTS novel, Dark Empire comics) that Sidious is indeed the strongest sith ever to exist, Lightsnake backed up this point very well, yet Yoda pushed Sidious to his very limit???
Originally posted by tdtd
Great Vengeance, do you understand the concept of a hyperbole? Now if it is specifically stated by the author, it isn't a hyperbole is it? If it is said that "Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful, THE Dark Lord", then it's fact.
Alright if you didnt make it up then where exactly does it say he has "Titanic physical powers" and a "Terrifying grasp of the dark side".
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
And why should Yoda be afraid of Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow???Its been suggested in many sources(ROTS novel, Dark Empire comics) that Sidious is indeed the strongest sith ever to exist, Lightsnake backed up this point very well, yet Yoda pushed Sidious to his very limit???
This is exactly why I used to jump all over you.
First, there is NOTHING suggesting that Sidious is the strongest sith ever to exist. DE was retconned in that aspect when TOTJ came out years later, and the ROTS novelisation mispells Yoda's form!
Second, Yoda did not beat Sidious, and Ludo Kressh or Sadow alone would wipe their asses with him. Hell, both of them can drive their sith blades right through walls with minimal effort. This isn't even counting their force powers.
Third, Ragnos >>>>>>. Sadow AND Kressh.
Originally posted by Wesker
This is exactly why I used to jump all over you.First, there is NOTHING suggesting that Sidious is the strongest sith ever to exist. DE was retconned in that aspect when TOTJ came out years later, and the ROTS novelisation mispells Yoda's form!
Second, Yoda did not beat Sidious, and Ludo Kressh or Sadow alone would wipe their asses with him. Hell, both of them can drive their sith blades right through walls with minimal effort. This isn't even counting their force powers.
Third, Ragnos >>>>>>. Sadow AND Kressh.
First, I just said its suggested numerous times in the ROTS novel and DE. Just because you dont agree with them doesnt mean they are invalid.
Second, I never said Yoda beat Sidious...but you cant deny that Yoda pushed him to his limit. As for the rest, more unsubstantiated opinions.
Third, what relevency does that have concerning Yoda?
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First, I just said its suggested numerous times in the ROTS novel and DE. Just because you dont agree with them doesnt mean they are invalid.Second, I never said Yoda beat Sidious...but you cant deny that Yoda pushed him to his limit. As for the rest, more unsubstantiated opinions.
Third, what relevency does that have concerning Yoda?
First, just because you've found suggestions from canonically incorrect sources doesn't mean I have to entertain them. If I'm a bit exasperated with this, it's because I've argued this before. If you don't realize how good the ancient sith are, you need to go to www.swcomics.com and research. I am not going to educate you on something that you can find online, in under five seconds.
Second, Sidious' ranking as of ROTS is relatively low tier compared to force users from the past, and when he reaches the zenith of his power by about DE, he's maybe on Kun's level. Maybe. But considering Mace Windu put Sidious on his ass, I suppose Mace can pwn Ragnos too? No, he can't. Hell, Luke Skywalker and his entire jedi council were shitting their pants that Ragnos' spirit might come back.
Third, Ragnos is a hell of a lot more powerful than those two forcegods. Yoda stands NO chance.
What Janus said. You need to open up TOTJ and read up on Ragnos. Sidious was nowhere near the level of most of the KOTOR characters, and Yoda wasn't more powerful than a lot of them. Nothing suggests Yoda could take lets say, Exar Kun, who was less powerful than Naga Sadow, who was less powerful than Ragnos. Ragnos is on a level beyond anything Yoda could achieve.
Originally posted by Wesker
First, just because you've found suggestions from canonically incorrect sources doesn't mean I have to entertain them. If I'm a bit exasperated with this, it's because I've argued this before. If you don't realize how good the ancient sith are, you need to go to www.swcomics.com and research. I am not going to educate you on something that you can find online, in under five seconds.Second, Sidious' ranking as of ROTS is relatively low tier compared to force users from the past, and when he reaches the zenith of his power by about DE, he's maybe on Kun's level. Maybe. But considering Mace Windu put Sidious on his ass, I suppose Mace can pwn Ragnos too? No, he can't. Hell, Luke Skywalker and his entire jedi council were shitting their pants that Ragnos' spirit might come back.
Third, Ragnos is a hell of a lot more powerful than those two forcegods. Yoda stands NO chance.
First, I havent been around in a while..but have you ever defeated Lightsnake in an argument concerning this point? I dont think it is likely, if you can give me a link then I'll shut up. 🙄
Second, "Low tier"...again an unsubstantiated opinion. Moving on to Mace, you know I take the stance that Sidious let Mace win...Its not really certain either way unless you can prove Mace actually won. The new jedi council are a bunch of pansys....Luke thought at one point the emperor was undefeatable(DE comics).
Third, the ancient sith arent force gods...
Lets keep this civil Janus, Id like to see why all you people are so certain the ancient sith are invincible.
Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
It realy is dumb to assume Marka Ragnos is the ebst of the best simply because he kept naga Sadow and Ludo in line, for all we kno naga Sadow could ave been the one to have offed him, though subtely. Or, perhaps he kept them from taking oevr by giving the 'jobs under their desks every day.
So sayeth the fool.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First, I havent been around in a while..but have you ever defeated Lightsnake in an argument concerning this point? I dont think it is likely, if you can give me a link then I'll shut up. 🙄Second, "Low tier"...again an unsubstantiated opinion. Moving on to Mace, you know I take the stance that Sidious let Mace win...Its not really certain either way unless you can prove Mace actually won. The new jedi council are a bunch of pansys....Luke thought at one point the emperor was undefeatable(DE comics).
Third, the ancient sith arent force gods...
Lets keep this civil Janus, Id like to see why all you people are so certain the ancient sith are invincible.
Except for the fact that your speculation that Sidious let Mace win is not only incorrect, but is the opposite of what GL has stated in his DVD commentary and what is in the novel, so unless your word is more canon than GL, you're wrong.. So was lightsnake.. Which is why he's not here anymore..
"Low Tier" isn't an unsubstantianted opinion, it is a fact based on logical arguments, and evidence. Oh I forgot, you want us to prove Mace won? You want us to prove what actually happened in the book, on screen, and in the commentary? What a great debater you are. Who cares what Luke thought how does that even translate into this argument? And the ancient sith might or might have not have been force gods, but they were the most powerful of the most powerful, and Ragnos was their top guy, which would make him a force god in my book. Same with DN Luke🙂
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
First, I havent been around in a while..but have you ever defeated Lightsnake in an argument concerning this point? I dont think it is likely, if you can give me a link then I'll shut up. 🙄
Lightsnake got owned argumentally. I might be able to find the link later when I'm at home; I don't recall which thread it was where it all went down. But Sidious was well examined at that point and pinpointed with conclusive evidence and rational arguments.
Second, "Low tier"...again an unsubstantiated opinion. Moving on to Mace, you know I take the stance that Sidious let Mace win...Its not really certain either way unless you can prove Mace actually won. The new jedi council are a bunch of pansys....Luke thought at one point the emperor was undefeatable(DE comics).
Again, most of this was covered. Hell, there's even a testamont to Ragnos's power in my profile quotes (Click and see) complete with scans.
Third, the ancient sith arent force gods...
Yes, they were.
Lets keep this civil Janus, Id like to see why all you people are so certain the ancient sith are invincible.
Just because I think Ragnos can pwn Yoda with his baby finger doesn't mean he's "invincible"; he's just leagues above Yoda in power and ability.
Originally posted by tdtd
Except for the fact that your speculation that Sidious let Mace win is not only incorrect, but is the opposite of what GL has stated in his DVD commentary and what is in the novel, so unless your word is more canon than GL, you're wrong.. So was lightsnake.. Which is why he's not here anymore..
"Low Tier" isn't an unsubstantianted opinion, it is a fact based on logical arguments, and evidence. Oh I forgot, you want us to prove Mace won? You want us to prove what actually happened in the book, on screen, and in the commentary? What a great debater you are. Who cares what Luke thought how does that even translate into this argument? And the ancient sith might or might have not have been force gods, but they were the most powerful of the most powerful, and Ragnos was their top guy, which would make him a force god in my book. Same with DN Luke🙂
So GL said "Mace won this battle fair and square, the end..."??? I was under the impression GL was vague as always. The novel, in reality, pretty much makes it clear Sidious planned the whole thing. He tape recorded their conversations for goodness sake!
What logical arguments and evidence???Are they invisible or something?
Im no great debater true, but neither are you. 😐
Originally posted by Wesker
Lightsnake got owned argumentally. I might be able to find the link later when I'm at home; I don't recall which thread it was where it all went down. But Sidious was well examined at that point and pinpointed with conclusive evidence and rational arguments.Again, most of this was covered. Hell, there's even a testamont to Ragnos's power in my profile quotes (Click and see) complete with scans.
Yes, they were.
Just because I think Ragnos can pwn Yoda with his baby finger doesn't mean he's "invincible"; he's just leagues above Yoda in power and ability.
Okay, so basically all this was covered before? You defeated Lightsnake? Ill be waiting for the link...
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
So GL said "Mace won this battle fair and square, the end..."??? I was under the impression GL was vague as always. The novel, in reality, pretty much makes it clear Sidious planned the whole thing. He tape recorded their conversations for goodness sake!What logical arguments and evidence???Are they invisible or something?
Im no great debater true, but neither are you. 😐
GL said Mace Windu overpowered Sidious, and only when Sidious initial lightning strike failed, did he start playing weak.. QED.. I don't know what novel you but in my ROTS novel, Windu overpowers him. Sidious may have planned the whole thing but he underestimated Windu and got pwned. ANd you're right, you're not a great debater, and nobody said I was the King either but I've destroyed your so called 'arguments' effectively.