Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Well, if Sidious did throw the saber fight... why didn't Lucas say something about it?He could have left it to interpretation... that seems good. It would make sense anyways to have him throw the fight to lure Anakin to the dark side. But I don't wanna really comment until I heard the commentary for myself.
Yeah, I think George leaves alot of things to interpretation so that fans can endlessly debate about it.
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
If what I heard is unvalid then show me its unvalid, bring out the ROTS commentary text if you know where it is so we may see how much it supports your position.DE is a valid source, TOTJ is more valid? Okay whatever....I dont see the relevency because there is no contradiction between the two.
You want an example...
"[B]What Janus said.
You need to open up TOTJ and read up on Ragnos. Sidious was nowhere near the level of most of the KOTOR characters, and Yoda wasn't more powerful than a lot of them. Nothing suggests Yoda could take lets say, Exar Kun, who was less powerful than Naga Sadow, who was less powerful than Ragnos. Ragnos is on a level beyond anything Yoda could achieve."Thats not all ofcourse, pretty much all of your posts are weak extensions of Janus' points. Or bullshit. [/B]
Yes, TOTJ is more relevant concerning it's OWN criteria. And that is the Ancient Sith.
What DE did was operate under the premise that the ancient Sith were only 2 millenia in age. This was further substantiated when the DE sourcebook said as much, which is the DE companion.
Furthermore, more recent sources have created and propped up the Ancient Sith to obscene levels. As mentioned in KotOR, they would make that era of force users look like children with lightsabers. Narratively, they are godlike force users.
Listen, you want to bring up the rehashed-done-to-death-no-one-can-prove-a-shit argument that Sidious threw that fight, you can, but you won't establish a thing. It's more blind speculation, you're the blind leading the blind.
Lightsnake was owned in his argument, he basically had none. His arguments did not make logical sense, used purely hyperbole, and was even caught lying at one point or another. You can search the thread, but all you'll find is several individuals pointing out just how fallacious his argumens was.
Ragnos' era produced the greatest, the Golden Age of Sith powers. The ancient Sith's very artifacts and remnant knowledge made generations of users become godlike individuals, yet you're going to argue that those individuals completely immersed within the culture and power-hungry society were weaklings? You're going to argue that the narrative canonically saying Ragnos was "the most powerful of the most powerful" is false? Has no relevance? Does not fit?
The guy was greater than Freedon Nadd, who NEVER met him in his life, and yet still was able to toss around force users and create avalanches in his death. The guy was greater than generations of Sith. He was the guy that made Luke's entire Jedi Order piss their pants with the mere threat of his revival by Tavion. Yes, he is superior to Yoda, any bit of inference will tell you that.
So GV, a Sith Lord able to reproduce Sith Illusions so real, they could kill, a Sith Lord that was able to almost defeat the Republic via brute strength and a surpassing command of the Dark Side, a Sith Lord that only lost due to betrayal, and was yet still able to escape by blowing up a star with his own force powers. That is what power Naga Sadow demonstrated, so now, if a Ragnos on his deathbed, prevented someone like Sadow from killing him, then i'd say he is helluva lot stronger than Sadow, consider the word "respect" did not register in Sadow's list of vocabulary, he never hesitated to backstab nor betray, so for him to fear a Sith Lord such as Ragnos is him admiting his weaker.
Now consider the mastery of the force Yoda has demonstrated, name what he could do that would even put him on par with the Ancient Sith. Name something ROTS Sidious could do to put him on par with the Ancient Sith. The term "Marka Ragnos" when you google it, you always find, that he is described to have a tremendous phyiscal strength and a surpassing command in the dark side of the force, this implies power greater than any other.
Might i add, Sidious is the greatest, and not the most powerful Sithlord, he accomplished for the Sith, that no other Dark Lord had done.
Using more of a scientific term here, is the fact that the Ancient Sith were able to their heavy sith swords with great speed, this requires extreme phyiscal power, consider that an average sword is 40-60kg ( Atleast in some places ) back in the medieval ages. Now consider the size and weight of these Sith Swords, and finally know that the Ancient Sith were able to wield them to same ability that a Jedi wields a lightsaber. This speaks great power, for even the most average Sith Lord in the GAOTS. Now, Kressh was able to break these swords with his bare hand, this indeed implies his great phyiscal prowess and consider Sadow was able to stalemate him, he was no less weaker phyiscally. Yet both these Sith feared the hated half blood Marka Ragnos.
In terms of phyiscal strength the Ancients surpass any of the succeeders, and in knowledge and power of the force, they surpass any other known force users.
Might i add, Sidious is the greatest, and not the most powerful Sithlord, he accomplished for the Sith, that no other Dark Lord had done.
Although I agree with you completely, it's really subjective. What Palpatine did was great, no one will deny that, but I sometimes prefer the more warlike Sith Lords who attempted to take the Republic head on with blood on their banner... And they came close... so close... but lost.
Well techincally, they always lost due to some miracle. They couldn't really allow any of the Sith lords prior to Sidious win as that would contradict the movies.
In my opinion, Sadow should have won, Kun should've won. Both these Sith Lords were betrayed and backstabbed thats how they lost. Thats why i find some ends really pathetic