Yoda versus Marka Ragnos

Originally posted by tdtd
GL said Mace Windu overpowered Sidious, and only when Sidious initial lightning strike failed, did he start playing weak.. QED.. I don't know what novel you but in my ROTS novel, Windu overpowers him. Sidious may have planned the whole thing but he underestimated Windu and got pwned. ANd you're right, you're not a great debater, and nobody said I was the King either but I've destroyed your so called 'arguments' effectively.

I havent listened to ROTS audio, so I have nothing to go by...

Oh okay in the novel Sidious gets overpowered, even though he smiles when he senses Mace coming...

And do I have to go over the many reasons why Sidious would want to fake the fight?

-Anakins nature is to fight authority and to protect the weak...Sidious used this to his advantage, playing on Anakins mercy to get what he wanted.

-Sidious needed to convert Anakin to the dark side...this was his most important goal...how do you suppose he would do that if he just flat out killed Mace? Anakin would have no choice but to fight or run away, instead Sidious gave Anakin the option to make himself feel like he was doing the right thing, protecting the weak, and so Sidious trapped him in his web. Anakin, after killing Mace, didnt have the option of turning away from his path and coming back to the light and so only had one option...become Vader.

I would respond to your insult, except Ive decided your not worth my time...

oooohhh burnnnn!!!

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I havent listened to ROTS audio, so I have nothing to go by...

Oh okay in the novel Sidious gets overpowered, even though he smiles when he senses Mace coming...

And do I have to go over the many reasons why Sidious would want to fake the fight?

-Anakins nature is to fight authority and to protect the weak...Sidious used this to his advantage, playing on Anakins mercy to get what he wanted.

-Sidious needed to convert Anakin to the dark side...this was his most important goal...how do you suppose he would do that if he just flat out killed Mace? Anakin would have no choice but to fight or run away, instead Sidious gave Anakin the option to make himself feel like he was doing the right thing, protecting the weak, and so Sidious trapped him in his web. Anakin, after killing Mace, didnt have the option of turning away from his path and coming back to the light and so only had one option...become Vader.

I would respond to your insult, except Ive decided your not worth my time...

Your reasons for why Sidious wanted to fake the fight have nothing to do with what actually happened, so keep your opinions out of the argument.. What's that, you have nothing to go by, so you make illogical and inaccurate claims? Wow.. Come back when you have an argument.

Does anyone have the whole commentary on that scene?

It's on the ROTS DVD

Yeah, but I don't have that... Can anyone, like, type out what he says?

It's too long lol, just download the dvd from IRCspy.com

Is that legal?

Are you serious? Or is this the "Downloading movies is illegal" forum?

Depends on where you are, etc. Here in the States they're pretty strict on it, so naturally I am always curious when people say "Just download it".

I'm in Tallahassee.. And it's a forum so I would imagine there are is no law enforcement here.

Hm. In other forums it's in the TOS, but I don't see it here.

haha

Originally posted by tdtd
Your reasons for why Sidious wanted to fake the fight have nothing to do with what actually happened, so keep your opinions out of the argument.. What's that, you have nothing to go by, so you make illogical and inaccurate claims? Wow.. Come back when you have an argument.

My reasons with why Sidious faked the fight have everything to do with what happened, its not my fault if this is too complicated for you.

I have nothing to go by regarding the ROTS commentary because I havent heard it, that is an irrelevent issue in relation to my other points.

Come back when I have an argument? I think Im going to have a heart attack here....you have made no real arguments whatsoever, pretty much all you have said is straight from Janus' mouth.

P.S. You seem to have some kind of grudge against me...I dont care to have enemies here, and if you want to put this squabble behind us Ill happily accept.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
My reasons with why Sidious faked the fight have everything to do with what happened, its not my fault if this is too complicated for you.

I have nothing to go by regarding the ROTS commentary because I havent heard it, that is an irrelevent issue in relation to my other points.

Come back when I have an argument? I think Im going to have a heart attack here....you have made no real arguments whatsoever, pretty much all you have said is straight from Janus' mouth.

P.S. You seem to have some kind of grudge against me...I dont care to have enemies here, and if you want to put this squabble behind us Ill happily accept.

Oy.. Let's try this again... Your reasons are invalid because it goes AGAINST what the ROTS commentary states. You shouldn't even be arguing when you have nothing but speculation to argue with. I have said what from Janus' mouth exactly? Or did you forget I was the first to respond to your unsubstantiated opinions? I have nothng against you, you try to formulate an argument without any evidence, so you use assumptions and speculation, which are both illogical fallacies. You then try to discredit my argument by saying I'm copying somebody else... Good job.

The ROTS commentary, from all that Ive heard, is vague and doesnt really decide anything. It seems your trying to exaggerate it to suit your needs, though by all means bring out the text if it does indeed support your argument like you say.

All Ive said is speculation? Ive made numerous references to ROTS and DE, where are your references other than trying to make the ROTS commentary something its not? Really man you are the KING of speculation if there ever was one.

Yes you started the debate with this:

"Lets see. Yoda who I am going to say, the second strongest Jedi ever, against the most powerful of the most powerful Ragnos, who possessed Titanic physical powers and had a terrifying grasp of the dark side.. Gee, I wonder."

Since that enlightening post, you have done nothing but post bullshit speculation or make immature reiterations of what Janus already said.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The ROTS commentary, from all that Ive heard, is vague and doesnt really decide anything. It seems your trying to exaggerate it to suit your needs, though by all means bring out the text if it does indeed support your argument like you say.

All Ive said is speculation? Ive made numerous references to ROTS and DE, where are your references other than trying to make the ROTS commentary something its not? Really man you are the KING of speculation if there ever was one.

Yes you started the debate with this:

"Lets see. Yoda who I am going to say, the second strongest Jedi ever, against the most powerful of the most powerful Ragnos, who possessed Titanic physical powers and had a terrifying grasp of the dark side.. Gee, I wonder."

Since that enlightening post, you have done nothing but post bullshit speculation or make immature reiterations of what Janus already said.

"From what you heard" isn't a valid response, nor justification. DE is less canon than TOTJ as it came out in the early 90s.. What I said wasn't speculation, Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful.. ANd since you want to discredit my argument, show me where I am copying Janus.. Please..

Originally posted by tdtd
"From what you heard" isn't a valid response, nor justification. DE is less canon than TOTJ as it came out in the early 90s.. What I said wasn't speculation, Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful.. ANd since you want to discredit my argument, show me where I am copying Janus.. Please..

If what I heard is unvalid then show me its unvalid, bring out the ROTS commentary text if you know where it is so we may see how much it supports your position.

DE is a valid source, TOTJ is more valid? Okay whatever....I dont see the relevency because there is no contradiction between the two.

You want an example...

"What Janus said. You need to open up TOTJ and read up on Ragnos. Sidious was nowhere near the level of most of the KOTOR characters, and Yoda wasn't more powerful than a lot of them. Nothing suggests Yoda could take lets say, Exar Kun, who was less powerful than Naga Sadow, who was less powerful than Ragnos. Ragnos is on a level beyond anything Yoda could achieve."

Thats not all ofcourse, pretty much all of your posts are weak extensions of Janus' points. Or bullshit.

Well, if Sidious did throw the saber fight... why didn't Lucas say something about it?

He could have left it to interpretation... that seems good. It would make sense anyways to have him throw the fight to lure Anakin to the dark side. But I don't wanna really comment until I heard the commentary for myself.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
If what I heard is unvalid then show me its unvalid, bring out the ROTS commentary text if you know where it is so we may see how much it supports your position.

DE is a valid source, TOTJ is more valid? Okay whatever....I dont see the relevency because there is no contradiction between the two.

You want an example...

"[B]What Janus said. You need to open up TOTJ and read up on Ragnos. Sidious was nowhere near the level of most of the KOTOR characters, and Yoda wasn't more powerful than a lot of them. Nothing suggests Yoda could take lets say, Exar Kun, who was less powerful than Naga Sadow, who was less powerful than Ragnos. Ragnos is on a level beyond anything Yoda could achieve."

Thats not all ofcourse, pretty much all of your posts are weak extensions of Janus' points. Or bullshit. [/B]

That's why I destroyed your argument before Janus did further damage.. Try reading the entire thread... Thanks