Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Honestly, how do you suppose to win against a being who can grab you and pull you to him from all the way across the galaxy. DE Sidious is the closest thing SW has to a true force god.
Very easily, given you're not even portraying him accurately and are making every assumption in his favor (that the teleportation can't be resisted, for instance).
DE Sidious is decidedly not a Force god in comparison to Kun and the Sith that came before him.
Originally posted by IKC
Very easily, given you're not even portraying him accurately and are making every assumption in his favor (that the teleportation can't be resisted, for instance).DE Sidious is decidedly not a Force god in comparison to Kun and the Sith that came before him.
...
I dont really feel like fighting the whole forum over this, you arent going to convince me you are right on this and I probably will never convince you so lets agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Wesker
Meh, they should toss this series out. It was retconned by the prequels anyways, and it's absolutely ridiculous. Lil' Luke Skywalker stops an AT-AT from working with just the Force? Come on now.
Where was it retconned by the prequels ?
And then let's toss the TOTJ series out too. And KotoR of course. People becoming godlike in the matter of weeks / months ? Come on now.
And you did notice that Luke had additional 6 years of training under various force spirits + Joruus "I mind-control the mob" C'Baoth between ROTJ and DE ?
That "I hate everything post ROTJ" attitude is annoying especially when people tend to accept that Nomi Sunrider can pick up a lightsaber and start pwning people that just killed her trained Jedi husband but Luke isn't allowed to develop any skills past ROTJ because he's Luke "Baseball Bat" Skywalker.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Where was it retconned by the prequels ?
And then let's toss the TOTJ series out too. And KotoR of course. People becoming godlike in the matter of weeks / months ? Come on now.And you did notice that Luke had additional 6 years of training under various force spirits + Joruus "I mind-control the mob" C'Baoth between ROTJ and DE ?
That "I hate everything post ROTJ" attitude is annoying especially when people tend to accept that Nomi Sunrider can pick up a lightsaber and start pwning people that just killed her trained Jedi husband but Luke isn't allowed to develop any skills past ROTJ because he's Luke "Baseball Bat" Skywalker.
I agree with this.
Originally posted by IKC
Is this before or after it's merely resisted and Sidious gets annihilated by Kun's beams?
I'd like to see people "resisting" a wormhole being dropped at them that tore entire fleets apart. Bane obviously thought he could annihilate all Jedi on Ruusan with that ability but Kun and Revan just "resist" it ?
Kun and Revan may slaughter Sidious before he conjures that thing up but if he can do that they are pretty much toast.
I'd like to see people "resisting" a wormhole being dropped at them that tore entire fleets apart.
This coming from the man that claims Luke "zOMG, teh furce!111!" Skywalker can just "resist" a visible beam of energy that expands in size as it travels and is shown to rip through flesh and stone with ease?
Ah, consistency. The bane of fanboys.
Bane obviously thought he could annihilate all Jedi on Ruusan with that ability but Kun and Revan just "resist" it ?
False analogy, logical fallacy. Can any of the Jedi on Ruusan hold a candle to Revan and Exar? I highly doubt it.
There's also the inconvenient fact that Bane was miles away.
Kun and Revan may slaughter Sidious before he conjures that thing up but if he can do that they are pretty much toast.
That's why it only took the combined potential of 2.5 people to push it back on Sidious, right?
Please.
Originally posted by IKC
This coming from the man that claims Luke "zOMG, teh furce!111!" Skywalker can just "resist" a visible beam of energy that expands in size as it travels and is shown to rip through flesh and stone with ease?Ah, consistency. The bane of fanboys.
No. It's coming from the man that finished Jedi Academy (dark side ending) and saw Kyle Katarn surviving a blast from Ragnos sceptre. Also nice comparing something that destroyed entire fleets and "consumed space itself" to a blast that ripped through some flesh.
Ah, lack of knowledge about post-ROTJ stuff. The bane of IKC.
False analogy. Can any of the Jedi on Ruusan hold a candle to Revan and Exar? I highly doubt it.There's also the inconvenient fact that Bane was miles away.
Let's see. Can Jedi that lived in a time period which was a 1000 year constant war between the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness hold a candle to Exar and especially Revan ? Yes.
Why is the fact that Bane was miles away inconvenient ? Obviously Sidious was able to use the force storm to "transport" Luke Skywalker to Byss while it destroyed everything else that was near Luke. It's not as if he doesn't have any control about it.
That's why it only took the combined potential of 2.5 people to push it back on Sidious, right?Please.
That's why they didn't push it back on Sidious but instead isolated Sidious using the Light Side so that he did lose control over his storm.
Please. Read the sources.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Where was it retconned by the prequels ?
And then let's toss the TOTJ series out too. And KotoR of course. People becoming godlike in the matter of weeks / months ? Come on now.And you did notice that Luke had additional 6 years of training under various force spirits + Joruus "I mind-control the mob" C'Baoth between ROTJ and DE ?
That "I hate everything post ROTJ" attitude is annoying especially when people tend to accept that Nomi Sunrider can pick up a lightsaber and start pwning people that just killed her trained Jedi husband but Luke isn't allowed to develop any skills past ROTJ because he's Luke "Baseball Bat" Skywalker.
No need to have a bug up your ass, Nai. There is a thread on this in the EU Lit section; DE is in a sense retconned by the prequels because Anakin was supposed to complete the prophecy and kill the Sith. And DE contradicts this idea.
No. It's coming from the man that finished Jedi Academy (dark side ending) and saw Kyle Katarn surviving a blast from Ragnos sceptre. Also nice comparing something that destroyed entire fleets and "consumed space itself" to a blast that ripped through some flesh.
And you saw it wielded by a relative weakling. That and it didn't even appear to have similar properties.
False analogy, logical fallacy.
Ah, lack of knowledge about post-ROTJ stuff. The bane of IKC.
I'll be sure to take a picture of part of my SW library when I get home.
Let's see. Can Jedi that lived in a time period which was a 1000 year constant war between the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness hold a candle to Exar and especially Revan ? Yes.
Perhaps you should do something generally referred to as "proving up."
I read Jedi vs. Sith. The only techniques anywhere close to being impressive were performed by the Sith, and only when their powers were combined.
Why is the fact that Bane was miles away inconvenient ? Obviously Sidious was able to use the force storm to "transport" Luke Skywalker to Byss while it destroyed everything else that was near Luke. It's not as if he doesn't have any control about it.
Because context is important, otherwise you're using a false analogy. In this versus fight, Sidious is not miles away and thus can be interfered with.
That's why they didn't push it back on Sidious but instead isolated Sidious using the Light Side so that he did lose control over his storm.
And it still overpowered him. 2.5 people, only one of whom we could even consider to be "trained."
Great job there, Sidious.
Originally posted by IKC
This coming from the man that claims Luke "zOMG, teh furce!111!" Skywalker can just "resist" a visible beam of energy that expands in size as it travels and is shown to rip through flesh and stone with ease?Ah, consistency. The bane of fanboys.
False analogy, logical fallacy. Can any of the Jedi on Ruusan hold a candle to Revan and Exar? I highly doubt it.
There's also the inconvenient fact that Bane was miles away.
That's why it only took the combined potential of 2.5 people to push it back on Sidious, right?
Please.
Wait, did you just call somebody else a fanboy? Can we say hypocrite? When someone makes a good argument against your hero, they are a fanboy, but when you completely ignore logical arguments and start using personal attacks, youre a man of "reason".. Btw calling him a fanboy doesn't make it so... Sorry...And I'd like to see Kun use his beam on a competent force user. What's that? He's never shown to be able to do that, and you've always ignored that argument? Thought so, "fanboy".
Originally posted by tdtd
Wait, did you just call somebody else a fanboy? Can we say hypocrite? When someone makes a good argument against your hero, they are a fanboy, but when you completely ignore logical arguments and start using personal attacks, youre a man of "reason".. Btw calling him a fanboy doesn't make it so... Sorry...And I'd like to see Kun use his beam on a competent force user. What's that? He's never shown to be able to do that, and you've always ignored that argument? Thought so, "fanboy".
IKC, you're not going to take that are you?
GV, you blinded view on DE Sidious being the most powerful of all is unwanted here. Nai himself gave arguments to why Marka Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful. Even IKC who admittely favours Kun admits Ragnos is the most powerful, if biased people can face it, if logical people can face it, why are you so blinded to believe zomg DE Sid pwnzros all, whilst he is a relative weakling in comparison to the Ancient Sith.
So, DE Sidious performed a much larger scaled form of Force Lightning, you cannot prove whether its unique or not, it is entirely based on description and its effects are no different from Force Lightning, so thus if Force Lightning can be blocked by a lightsaber, nothing says that a powerful force being such as Kun can't block it.
ZOMG DE Sidious can teleport people, fact remains he was indeed a very powerful Sith Lord, but he did so due the fact he wanted to convert Luke to his side, yet in all the Ancient Sith and Nadd/Kun's Sith, they never pursue to recruit one potential Sith, so by that logic you assume Sidious is powerful beacuse he can transport people? Nothing dictates that the Ancient Sith/Nadd/Kun/NJO or DN Luke can't do the same, its out of neccessity that DE Sidious did so.
Enlighten me if you will, in Kun's time, who did he need to "teleport," to convert? When did the Ancient Sith need to "teleport" in order to recruit just one potential Sith. When did Nadd, Luke and so forth require to do so? The answer is that none of them ever needed to do so, hence you cannot assume they can't neither can you say, OMG DE SIDIOUS CAN TELELPORT PPL HE"LL PWNZORS. That is logical fallacy.
Nai, you cannot effectly prove that Kun's Amulet can be blocked, and whilst we are on this argument, IKC neither can you prove that Luke's emerald lightning will not effect Kun, however based on the evidence we are given, Kun's Amulet Blasts are much tangible. Why? Compare:
Emerald Lightning:
- Shown to only have been Used on the Vong
- Does not leave any traces of scarring nor damage
- Consider the Vong, are not of the force, and Luke could have soley devised them to combat the Vong, thus making it an instakill only among the Vong
Amulet Blasts:
- Phyiscal Manifestation of the Force, capable of ripping apart Structures and literally tearing through "Dark Side Empowered" Monsters.
- Shown to be a thick beam, able to tear through solid with ease. Consider it is not as tdtd assumed, blasts from an At At, but a long continous concretrated beam of the force.
Based on what is shown and given, whilst the Blasts are not an instakill, they certainly are shown to work effectively on phyiscal elements of the SW Galaxy. IKC has provided sufficient proof to show it.
Nai you still have to prove how the Amulet Blasts can be blocked by a saber which is thinner than the Blast
tdtd you still have to prove how the At At blasts compare, when its evident that the Amulet Blasts look nothing like the At At blasts. A continous beam is not the same as rapid fire from a gun turret on the At At
Originally posted by IKC
And you saw it wielded by a relative weakling. That and it didn't even appear to have similar properties.
Let's see. The sceptre blasted through a wall, Sadow's amulet blasted through a wall. No...there is obviously no similarity.
False analogy, logical fallacy.
Comes from the guy that compares Kun's amulet blasts to something that destroys entire fleets and "rends the fabric of space itself" and then talks about lack of consistency on my side ? Haha.
Perhaps you should do something generally referred to as "proving up."I read Jedi vs. Sith. The only techniques anywhere close to being impressive were performed by the Sith, and only when their powers were combined.
And canonically Revan and Malak performed force lightning, force push and force choke. That does make them superior to somebody able do destroy entire fleets with his force powers how again ? And by the way...was that you who constantly rated the TOTJ era people above all because they had so much fights against other force users ?
By that logic people who lived in a constant period of battles between Jedi and Sith for 1,000 years should be superior to people who just had the Third Shism (lasting less than a year) and the Great Sith War. What did you say ? "Ah, consistency. The bane of fanboys." ?
Because context is important, otherwise you're using a false analogy. In this versus fight, Sidious is not miles away and thus can be interfered with.
Do you read what I write ? Did you see that:
"Kun and Revan might slaughter Sidious before he conjures that thing (the force storm) up but if he can do that they are pretty much toast."
And it still overpowered him. 2.5 people, only one of whom we could even consider to be "trained."
He still wasn't overpowered. They isolated him using the Light Side thereby making him losing control over the storm. They didn't overpower him and they didn't turn the storm against him. It's not SW according to IKC.
@Janus:
No need to have a bug up your ass, Nai. There is a thread on this in the EU Lit section; DE is in a sense retconned by the prequels because Anakin was supposed to complete the prophecy and kill the Sith. And DE contradicts this idea.
You must be joking. When you want to apply Lucas ideas on the EU the entire freaking EU is contradicted and you can throw it all out of the window. We don't even have to debate since "Luke will become the most powerful ever" and "Anakin was the most powerful being ever" which "most powerful" is "twice as powerful as Yoda / Sidious".
I guess by that logic the Ancient Sith are nonexistant and Luke can defeat everybody.
And what ? Now everything is retconned by "the prophecy" ? Ok...who was the father of Luke and Leia and whos actions and decissions were responsible for their birth and therefore Sidious defeat ? In the end Anakin is still responsible...as long as all the important stuff is done by his descendants.
@Deception:
Can you please tell me who started discussing NJO Luke vs Exar Kun here ? I don't even see Luke in this match so why you came up with "Emerald lightning" vs "Kun's amulet blast" ? Actually it's "Kun's amulet blast" vs this one here:
If you show me where a blast from Kun's amulet "rends the fabric of space itself" while destroying an entire fleet or you give me anything just to suggest that something like this can be resisted I'll stop talking.