Originally posted by jollyjim311
How will the wookies get close if the clones are defending a base with turrets and heavy repeaters?
Also, because the Clones are using heavy repeaters, once Wookies got close then the repeaters wouldn't do much good because they are big and heavy. They couldn't move them around very fast like they could with a smaller blaster.
They do have horrible accuracy, and they are heavy to move from side to side. And they have a slow recoil/startup rate. As I see it the wookies are not stupid enough to storm in like kamizaze idiots and get obliterated by enemy fire, plus their rage/frenzy does not happen whenever they choose. Something like having their best friend shot down, or parents killed could make them go crazy.
Seems like most people believe Yoda has a chance of victory here lets move on to Battle #2
That's Janus's call, and he'll make it when he thinks there's been a conclusive argument, which, as far as I can see, hasn't happened yet. Nai's points were pretty good, but what would happen if Mace had his clones destroy the nearby vegetation? The Wookies would eventually find themselves in an open field, and then get torn apart by repeaters. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to do that, but it's a possibility if the clones play it right.
However, Jedi battle meditation is devastatingly effective when used against enemy forces. While obviously skyrocketing the will and confidence of allies, it really does tear the opposing armies' soldiers apart, as is shown by Odan-Urr's conquest of a rival base in - I believe - GAotS.
No, I don't agree. Coupled with my previous answers and the fact that Mace would see a small squad coming in meditation, I think Mace wins. Show me what is wrong with my answer and I will accept what you guys say, but being on the defensive with heavy repeaters, defence turrets, and a general who will see sneak attacks coming in meditation will win Mace the battle.
Originally posted by Faunus
That's Janus's call, and he'll make it when he thinks there's been a conclusive argument, which, as far as I can see, hasn't happened yet. Nai's points were pretty good, but what would happen if Mace had his clones destroy the nearby vegetation? The Wookies would eventually find themselves in an open field, and then get torn apart by repeaters. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to do that, but it's a possibility if the clones play it right.However, Jedi battle meditation is devastatingly effective when used against enemy forces. While obviously skyrocketing the will and confidence of allies, it really does tear the opposing armies' soldiers apart, as is shown by Odan-Urr's conquest of a rival base in - I believe - GAotS.
Lets not depend on What If's. I dont know if it was in this thread or the last one, but Janus stated that nobody will decide what the commander might or will do.
So far all I have seen is how the wookies will win, nobody has even defended mace and his clones. Unless somebody gives an argument in maces favor, I see no reason to continue this fight.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
I decided that no one can place LIMITATIONS on a general's missions unless it's implied in his location or his mentality. If Mace Windu decides to scortch and burn trees around his bunker to set up a kill zone, he can do that.
Well...Is Mace allowed to built up the defence before the battle starts (meaning can he create a kill zone before the battle) ? Otherwise I don't see the Clones destroying huge parts of the forrest while getting attacked by Wookies with Battle Meditation support.
And even if he's allowed to do that: Yoda will simply send the Wookies to dig trenches through the killzone or they'll construct some sorts of mobile cover (e.g. cut down trees and transport them into the kill-zone).
Really, tactically Mace has an advantage. As good at Jungle Warfare the Wookies may be, they are larger targets, they must attack, and the heavy repeater will absolutely mow down troops at close range. The heavy repeater, without substantial armor, is absolutely a devastating weapon. Clone troopers are naturally tactical fighters, I see no reason why they wouldn't split into small regiments, camp key locations and simply mow down the forces with their rapid fire weapons.
Bowcasters usually only shoot one bolt, I believe they have a charge time for multiple bolts, even then it's far from a shotgun effect, which is a large mass of shrapnel.
"Master Yoda went into a battle meditation..."
"and we became his lightsabers."
Sorry. This is not conclusive proof that Yoda knows the battle meditation technique. Why?
1) The narrator seems to be a clonetrooper, not an omniscient third party. Since when did clonetroopers know shit about Force techniques?
2) The rest of his sentence becomes a metaphor, meaning he is not speaking literally. Unless you want to argue that the clonetroopers literally turned into lightsabers, what evidence you have for Yoda knowing the technique is on more-than-shaky ground.
What proof you have is of a fallible third party making a metaphor. Not good enough.
Originally posted by IKC
"and we became his lightsabers."Sorry. This is not conclusive proof that Yoda knows the battle meditation technique. Why?
1) The narrator seems to be a clonetrooper, not an omniscient third party. Since when did clonetroopers know shit about Force techniques?
Obviously you know shit about the comic. The narrator in this case is Quinlan Vos and I guess he knows enough about the force to judge if somebody is using Battle Meditation.
2) The rest of his sentence becomes a metaphor, meaning he is not speaking literally. Unless you want to argue that the clonetroopers literally turned into lightsabers, what evidence you have for Yoda knowing the technique is on more-than-shaky ground.
Again. The narrator is Quinlan Vos and not a Clone Trooper. What weapon does Jedi Knight Vos prefer ? A lightsaber maybe ?
What proof you have is of a fallible third party making a metaphor. Not good enough.
See above. Maybe you should read the source before you start arguing my points.
Except the quote is still from a fallible third party making a metaphor. He did not literally become a lightsaber, Nai, and if his single quote is all the proof you have of Yoda using battle meditation, it doesn't speak well for the possibilities of Yoda knowing the ability.
How is Quinlan Vos a "fallible third party" as he has experienced Oppo Rancicis using the very same ability in the Battle of Saleucami, huh ?
How is the "Master Yoda went into a battle meditation" a metaphor ? Oh...the "we became his lightsabers" is ? Does that affect the first part of the sentence: No. Does Quinlan say that because of the general strong bond between a Jedi and his lightsaber (quote Obi-Wan from AotC: "This weapon is your life !"😉 ? Apparently: Yes.
Can it be that you're again talking out of your ass with your great skills of literature interpretation that enable you to turn a "forced to watch" used as description for persons that just got hit by a freezing spell into "OMG ! Exar Kun did mind-controll the entire Senate, and the Chancellor ! And he made them turn their heads to see what he does. Da narrator says so !" ? Seems like this is the case.