Iran joins 'countries with nuclear technology'

Originally posted by sithsaber408
To answer that question, the Bible states

to address the question of US v Iran, is small-minded and idiotic. Too many of the neo-cons in this forum are speaking, when they should be listening. The whole idea that war is good permeates your posts. There is no such thing as a good war. To think otherwise is ridiculous. You're apparently too stupid to figure that out. You have this juvinile notion that the US is unbeatable and absolute. Well, that's just stupid and uninformed. Which is exactly my point. You are feeding others sound bites from FOX news and not taking even a moment to figure this stuff out for yourselves. You're an embarrassment to teh very way of life you think you support.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
to address the question of US v Iran, is small-minded and idiotic. Too many of the neo-cons in this forum are speaking, when they should be listening. The whole idea that war is good permeates your posts. There is no such thing as a good war. To think otherwise is ridiculous. You're apparently too stupid to figure that out. You have this juvinile notion that the US is unbeatable and absolute. Well, that's just stupid and uninformed. Which is exactly my point. You are feeding others sound bites from FOX news and not taking even a moment to figure this stuff out for yourselves. You're an embarrassment to teh very way of life you think you support.

Here, here. Well said.

I was slightly surprised upon returning to the forums to see all these "Go Dubya's" at the end of posts. Just struck me as absurd and childish.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
to address the question of US v Iran, is small-minded and idiotic. Too many of the neo-cons in this forum are speaking, when they should be listening. The whole idea that war is good permeates your posts. There is no such thing as a good war. To think otherwise is ridiculous. You're apparently too stupid to figure that out. You have this juvinile notion that the US is unbeatable and absolute. Well, that's just stupid and uninformed. Which is exactly my point. You are feeding others sound bites from FOX news and not taking even a moment to figure this stuff out for yourselves. You're an embarrassment to teh very way of life you think you support.

I agree, but wouldn't it have saved you precious time and calories to just call him a jingoist?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Here, here. Well said.

I was slightly surprised upon returning to the forums to see all these "Go Dubya's" at the end of posts. Just struck me as absurd and childish.

yet i'm guessing that you think calling people small minded and idiotic is a perfectly acceptable and non childish way of debating?

Originally posted by jaden101
yet i'm guessing that you think calling people small minded and idiotic is a perfectly acceptable and non childish way of debating?

Well, I don't believe I have used idiotic or small minded in this thread. But anyway, being a debater from way back I know that in a competition one should refrain from referring to ones' opponents in a negative way (though there have been times I wish I could say "You sir are an ass!"😉 - but you can say something to the effect of "an argument which is patently absurd, bordering on the idiotic/insane/irrational."

It's all about tact, you see. Using ones God given vocabulary. I think there is a time and place for certain words. I find the whole "Go Dubya" childish when it is used in such an immature way and with no real logic or reason to back it up. That is how I would describe it. Some would call it idiotic, and I can understand why they would say that. Now I imagine you are referring to my approval of Capt_Fantastic's summery. I find it accurate and I agree with the sentiment he is expressing.

Now, is it fair or good to use small minded or idiotic? Here it is directed towards the kind of mindset that is basically - "Annihilate them" "Nuke them" "the whole region should be glassed" "Lets get those bastards" etc etc etc (not all those phrases used here) and in some situations a lack of knowledge of the political situation or the world situation these opinions are being based on. Like saying again and again they have nukes when there is no such proof. Or a phrase about "liberal bleeding hearts."

Now as I said there is a time in a debate for such words. The question of US vs. Iran, and some of the answer given has revealed some small mindedness. Such a phrase can be used in a competitive debate - because world views and opinions can be small minded if they are built upon lack of facts, ignorance to some greater bit of information, deliberately erroneous opinions or arguments that are twisted by the debaters own bias. It need not even be seen as an insult (though it can be used as one.) And Capt_Fantastic supported his reason for using such words in a perfectly reasonable manner, and as such in a way that I would not consider childish.

there is, as you say, a hell of a lot of posts based on "they probably have" arguments...and yes you can level lots of insults at the people who make these posts

but it's far more effective to simply prove them wrong...

Who says you can't do both?

noone...but given that insulting people just makes you look as foolish as them...what would be the point

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Using ones God given vocabulary.

Now as I said there is a time in a debate for such words. The question of US vs. Iran, and some of the answer given has revealed some small mindedness. Such a phrase can be used in a competitive debate - because world views and opinions can be small minded if they are built upon lack of facts, ignorance to some greater bit of information, deliberately erroneous opinions or arguments that are twisted by the debaters own bias. It need not even be seen as an insult (though it can be used as one.) And Capt_Fantastic supported his reason for using such words in a perfectly reasonable manner, and as such in a way that I would not consider childish.

Whats a God given vocabulary?

I agree US vs Iran is troublesome waters indeed. Which is why I can only speak for myself when I say this. Most of my comments were directed at Iran vs Israel which is a VERY LARGE concern. The reality is this political arena you are speaking of is shit, it always has been and will continue to be such. If the USA should get involved (I certainly hope that it doesn't) at least there are many other countries concerned with Iran's possible nuclear threat.

Iran has recently been very boastful of its recent military developments and what they can and are willing to do with them. Iran is a nuclear country and since the US up to the 70's assisted the middle east in nuclear development it is foolish to overlook that fact there very well could be nuclear arms available especially with the disarmarmement of the previous USSR. Another tactic you forget to post is deliberatly bait your enemy into thinking you have less then you really do, this is also a very common practice.

To foolishly think that a country as historically hostile as Iran in that region is being tongue in cheek is blind. Save your political passivity's for the UN.

Originally posted by jaden101
yet i'm guessing that you think calling people small minded and idiotic is a perfectly acceptable and non childish way of debating?

Some times, you have to approach them on their level. In point of fact, it IS small minded and childish to support the start of an invasion and a war without informing yourself and seeking justification. You're not oblivious. I'm addressing certain members who spew soundbites and consider themselves well read on the subject. I'm addressing those members who come into a thread and think that because they're Americans and Bush supporters, they have the right to say that we should just wipe out the entire middle east...because it's our right, like it's some new form of manifest destiny. It's just stupid. It's childish on the level of the playground bully mentality. And more importantly, it's irresponsible.

Originally posted by Soleran
Most of my comments were directed at Iran vs Israel which is a VERY LARGE concern.

Why?

I'm not accusing you of this, but so many people on your side of the aisle are getting their panties in a bunch over Israel. I don't understand the mentality that US is awsome, and everyone else be damned...oh, except for Israel. We have gotten in more shit over Israel in the middle east than I can list! What is this fanatical devotion to Israel that so many people have, politically? They have their own country, now let them take care of it. More importantly, let them take care of it themselves, without acting like they're the 51st American state.

^ because the USA will more then likely make it their business, as well as the UN. Iran is a country led by a fundamentalist govt. as such they are vocal about their intentions and what that includes.

I have a real problem with christianity in politics however the Muslims that are speaking the loudest are also the most radical and in charge of their country, I don't trust that at all do you?

Arachnoidfreak> "Wait, so not wanting to start a world war is being a bleeding heart liberal??"
Appears so, doesn't it?? Why is no one contesting that??

Soleran> "He is deliberatly attmepting to stir emotion by exaggerating and exacerbating for imagery, that's just junk."
You go after the MAN, not his arguments is not exactly proving your side of the story isn't it? Just kinda looks like you don't HAVE any counter-arguments.

Imperial_Samurai> Well said all along. That a nations "shakes its fist" at other nations does NOT mean it will actually go to war. ANY Iranian leader will know, that if the Iranian government launches as much as a stone towards Israel, the rest of the world would strike down, hard, on Iran.
I suspect Iran wants nuclear weapons to AVOID being invaded itself. ANd maybe some of the american neocons around here seems to think, that because GWB said "Iraq is a threat, let's invade", that other countries will act the same way.

jaden101>"yet i'm guessing that you think calling people small minded and idiotic is a perfectly acceptable and non childish way of debating?"
Actually, if you'd bother reading Imperial_Samurais post, you'd notice that he called the ACT of wrting "Go Dubya's" absurd and childish. NOT the actual posters. BIG difference.

The main reason people are getting uppity is because were giving a country who has blatantly declared that it wants to destroy it's enemies (and in a rather brutal fashion at that) access to one of the most powerful and destructive weapons on the planet , for all the faults america , Britain, france, and the rest of the nuke toting countries have they haven't (so far) declared (several times) that they wish to annihilate an entire country.

This is why we shouldn't give the Iranians nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by The Omega

Actually, if you'd bother reading Imperial_Samurais post, you'd notice that he called the ACT of wrting "Go Dubya's" absurd and childish. NOT the actual posters. BIG difference.

thats a get out clause of an excuse if ever i read one...regardless there is very little difference

what's more bizarre is that when you read through the previous pages of post...most of the posts with "go dubya" are so riddled with sarcasm that anyone attacking them seem to be missing the point

Originally posted by jaden101
there is, as you say, a hell of a lot of posts based on "they probably have" arguments...and yes you can level lots of insults at the people who make these posts

but it's far more effective to simply prove them wrong...

Well, as you can see from the beginning of the thread people have tried to do just that - such as basically saying "The article doesn't mention Iran possessing nuclear weapons" "There is very little likelihood of them already having them due to the complexity of the process (3% enriched uranium etc) - perfectly clear logic was used numerous times to prove such posts wrong, but it rarely seems to have stuck.

thats a get out clause of an excuse if ever i read one...regardless there is very little difference

what's more bizarre is that when you read through the previous pages of post...most of the posts with "go dubya" are so riddled with sarcasm that anyone attacking them seem to be missing the point

Are you saying that the posters who use "GO DUBYA" are actually trying to create satire? That they don't actually support the Bush administration at all? That they don't actually mean the posts they make and end with "GO DUBYA", the ones with such opinions as preemptive nuking, anti-gay sentiments (in other threads as such)? I think I, and many other people get the sense they like Bush, like what he has done, and would like him to continue doing it - that is "take the bastards out." If that is the case they can come here and say "It's true, it was sarcastic, we actually don't mean what they are saying" and I would apologise, as I don't mind being wrong, it is a learning process. However I can't see them coming here and saying "We believe gays should marry and Bush shouldn't be going to war at the drop of a hat." Prove me wrong people, prove me wrong.

And I stand by what I said. The "GO DUBYA" slogan is childish. It has no meaning, it is used in an insightful manner, it is like driving a car with a "Go Home Foreigners" bumper sticker through an immigrant neighbourhood. Is it needed? No. It is the equivalent of sticking ones tongue out. Maybe the posters think it's cool, they can. The slogan itself is childish. They could whip up something witty, they could whip up something that actually makes sense or is specific. Just "GO DUBYA" though?

Originally posted by Eis
What do you guys think?

All sides be saied, I'll protect you. Forget these others...

I care about you.

others don't

Originally posted by Soleran
Whats a God given vocabulary?

Don't worry, I meant nothing religious by it. It's a turn of phrase - like "God given rights"or using ones "God given legs"- that kind of thing. Has nothing to do with God, but it is one of those old phrases that has stuck.

Of course, in simple terms, ones vocabulary is all the words a person knows (or that exist in a language) - and making use of ones vocabulary is useful in many fields - such as a the example I was using of the competitive debate. There you want to get your point across in a fashion that keeps it true to its purpose without offending or insulting those your debating with, which, in a such a debate would loose points.However sometimes you have to emphasise your rebuttal to an argument, which means going on the attack - but once again not in an insulting manner, because that doesn't benefit anybody and it isn't nice.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well, as you can see from the beginning of the thread people have tried to do just that - such as basically saying "The article doesn't mention Iran possessing nuclear weapons" "There is very little likelihood of them already having them due to the complexity of the process (3% enriched uranium etc) - perfectly clear logic was used numerous times to prove such posts wrong, but it rarely seems to have stuck.

Are you saying that the posters who use "GO DUBYA" are actually trying to create satire? That they don't actually support the Bush administration at all? That they don't actually mean the posts they make and end with "GO DUBYA", the ones with such opinions as preemptive nuking, anti-gay sentiments (in other threads as such)? I think I, and many other people get the sense they like Bush, like what he has done, and would like him to continue doing it - that is "take the bastards out." If that is the case they can come here and say "It's true, it was sarcastic, we actually don't mean what they are saying" and I would apologise, as I don't mind being wrong, it is a learning process. However I can't see them coming here and saying "We believe gays should marry and Bush shouldn't be going to war at the drop of a hat." Prove me wrong people, prove me wrong.

And I stand by what I said. The "GO DUBYA" slogan is childish. It has no meaning, it is used in an insightful manner, it is like driving a car with a "Go Home Foreigners" bumper sticker through an immigrant neighbourhood. Is it needed? No. It is the equivalent of sticking ones tongue out. Maybe the posters think it's cool, they can. The slogan itself is childish. They could whip up something witty, they could whip up something that actually makes sense or is specific. Just "GO DUBYA" though?

you're making my point...i know and you know the article doesn't say Iran has nukes...it's far easier to just prove the genuine "go dubya" posse by showing them that...there isn't a need to attack the way they make their point but simply the points they try to make

as for the other threads...i dont venture into to threads which hold no interest for me...hence i've never really read the gay marriages threads and others like it...

but when you consider that one of the people who in this thread has used "go dubya" as being PVS...well that says it all

Originally posted by jaden101
you're making my point...i know and you know the article doesn't say Iran has nukes...it's far easier to just prove the genuine "go dubya" posse by showing them that...there isn't a need to attack the way they make their point but simply the points they try to make

but when you consider that one of the people who in this thread has used "go dubya" as being PVS...well that says it all

Oh, I had the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't looking at PVS or myself (I know both of us used it in a sarcastic fasion once each.) My mistake. My oppinion was in referance to its use in the serious manner, and I thought those cases were what you were refering to.