Mace Windu versus Count Dooku

Originally posted by hord06
Dooku is nothing special when it comes to force power.

Yeah, I'm sure. He only dropped a ceiling on Obi-Wan and Anakin in LoE and put up a good show for Yoda in AOTC. In that last second of the battle, he was holding blades with Yoda and reached out without any effort and tore down something the size of a bus on top of Anakin and Obi-Wan.

He may know a few dark side powers that Mace doesn't, but his raw force power is lower then Mace's in my opinion.

And this isn't "SW according to hord's opinion". Provide an argument, please.

I mean Yoda was able to hand absorb Dooku's lightning with considerable ease and his telekinesis was far superior in AOTC.

Actually, Yoda had to work to absorb just a little bit of Dooku's lightning. Dooku was barely cranking out any amps, and he effectively put Anakin out of the match for a good five minutes. And Yoda had to close his eyes and struggle with using the Force, when Dooku casually reached out and tore the cavern ceiling apart. Come on now. Stop being ridiculous.

Mace is shown to possess huge amounts of raw force power. He displays this several times against Grievous and countless times in Shatterpoint.

Really? I know he's exceptional, but nowhere does he overcome a Sith Lord with just the force, nor does he handle offensive force powers with ease. Look at Mace versus Sidious... He was reeling from that lightning, while Yoda could handle it without budging full brunt. So there's no instance of Mace > Dooku in force powers. If anything, it's the other way around.

You took the words right out of my mouth. In fact I couldnt have said it better myself!!!

This has ben done several times. Mace wins. In The Making of Revenge of the Sith Lucas says only Mace and Yoda can compete with the Emperor in a duel, and Anakin could have if he hadn't gotten all beat up. No mention that Dooku can compete with Sidious. In Dark Rendezvous it says of all the Jedi in the order only Yoda and Mace could beat Dooku. And in Onsession they fight and Dooku decides to flee. Now, one could argue that he didn't want to rick his life, but we don't see Mace running away. Cause he was winning. Same as in AOTC when Dooku ran away, and in Dark Rendezvous when he ran away. Cause he was losing.

Yes, the Databank does say Dooku has bested Mace before, but that was even before TPM. By ROTS Mace is stronger. So I guess thois depends on when the fight takes place. ???

DS, are you blind or something? All those instances are talking about JEDI. Dooku was no longer a JEDI. Damn.

In AOTC the Count had good reason to retreat. He had the plans for the death star for god sake. And of course Yoda was winning because Dooku had just fought two jedi before hand - one of them being "the chosen one". And just because it says in Dark Rendezvous that Mace could beat Dooku doesnt mean Mace is better. Its like saying Anakin has beaten Dooku which means he is the superior fighter.

Originally posted by darthsith19
This has ben done several times. Mace wins. In The Making of Revenge of the Sith Lucas says only Mace and Yoda can compete with the Emperor in a duel, and Anakin could have if he hadn't gotten all beat up. No mention that Dooku can compete with Sidious. In Dark Rendezvous it says of all the Jedi in the order only Yoda and [B]Mace could beat Dooku. And in Onsession they fight and Dooku decides to flee. Now, one could argue that he didn't want to rick his life, but we don't see Mace running away. Cause he was winning. Same as in AOTC when Dooku ran away, and in Dark Rendezvous when he ran away. Cause he was losing.

Yes, the Databank does say Dooku has bested Mace before, but that was even before TPM. By ROTS Mace is stronger. So I guess thois depends on when the fight takes place. ??? [/B]

Dooku was on par with Mace during Obsession and no side had the winning edge. The Bodyguard droids began to drag Mace to the edge of the cliff. Dooku did not order this. Mace had difficulties escaping the droids so Dooku fled. Nowhere in that novel does it indicate Dooku was losing that battle. They were on par. Get over it.

Before TPM? Where does it say that? I didn't see that anywhere, actually.

Hell, since you assumed that, I could assume that Mace fought Dooku WHILE he was a Sith Lord and got overpowered.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
In AOTC the Count had good reason to retreat. He had the plans for the death star for god sake. And of course Yoda was winning because Dooku had just fought two jedi before hand - one of them being "the chosen one". And just because it says in Dark Rendezvous that Mace could beat Dooku doesnt mean Mace is better. Its like saying Anakin has beaten Dooku which means he is the superior fighter.

So you say that he would have faired better if he haden't fought Anakin and Obi-Wan before? Please, he was barley tired at all. I could go say that if Obi-Wan and Anakin didn't fight in that arena for a helluvalong time they would have faired better against the Count, but that's not true so I don't.

Apparently Dooku was in no hurry to get away since he toyed with both Anakin and Kenobi. And since everybody is assuming that Dooku could have used much more powerful lightning than he did (two hands) that is another sign that he wasen't in such hurry. Sure, he was, but he was still loosing to Yoda, and so was he in Dark Rendezvous.

And the choosen one means shit.

I agree on the last part though...

DS, are you blind or something? All those instances are talking about JEDI. Dooku was no longer a JEDI. Damn.

And just because it says in Dark Rendezvous that Mace could beat Dooku doesnt mean Mace is better.

Dooku was on par with Mace during Obsession and no side had the winning edge.

The Bodyguard droids began to drag Mace to the edge of the cliff. Dooku did not order this.

Before TPM? Where does it say that? I didn't see that anywhere, actually.

Hell, since you assumed that, I could assume that Mace fought Dooku WHILE he was a Sith Lord and got overpowered.

Dooku's problem in Dark Rendesvouz was more intimidation of his old master than lack of skill. Initially, Dooku was winning. But fear crept into his mind and undermined the fight.

Originally posted by darthsith19
When was it talking only on jedi? When is said right in the damn novel that Mace could beat Dooku?

No. it means he'd win in this thread, though.

Dooku ran away. Now, we can assume he ran because he thought he might possibly lose. But the fact that he said he wanted to pwn some Jedi and then like five frames later decided he was in to much of a hurry to wait for Asajj showes that he was scared. Of what? Mace, is the only logical answer.

Yes, he did. That's why he said "They will ensure my escape." or something like that.

Cause they fought in EU. Janus or Faunus or somebody told me the book they fought in took place before TPM.

He said he wanted to "Pwn some Jedi"? Quote him, please.

I don't see Dooku running around a Castle pwning Jedi. That sounds stupid.

No, they grabbed Mace and put him by the Cliff. Mace was unable to escape from the two droids and Dooku just walked away from it. Yeah, he's going to pull the droids off and continue the fight.

Originally posted by Antediluvian
He said he wanted to "Pwn some Jedi"? Quote him, please.

Well...he said that they should leave all the Jedi they encounter to him just before Mace shows up.

No, they grabbed Mace and put him by the Cliff. Mace was unable to escape from the two droids and Dooku just walked away from it. Yeah, he's going to pull the droids off and continue the fight.

Actually Mace force pushed the droids back while fighting Dooku then Dooku says that Mace "of course won't kill him...not today" (at which day then ?) and then the droids grab Mace from behind and you have Dooku suggesting that they "will keep [Mace] occupied while [Dooku] makes his depature".

Really. Mace and Dooku are pretty close to each other in terms of raw force power, force control and lightsaber ability but I don't see why Dooku should allow his droids to interrupt the fight - when he just told them that they should leave all Jedi to him right before Mace shows up - if he didn't think that Mace would be able to defeat him. This is also the only explanation for Dooku's own comment that Windu won't kill him today.

Why should we assume that Mace can't take Dooku if Dooku himself as it seems suggests that Mace might be able to do that ?

No. it means he'd win in this thread, though.

Nope. It means only he and Yoda could *stand a chance* against Dooku.

Standing a chance =/= Winning in this thread.

And yes, Mace does stand a chance. No one will deny that...

Originally posted by Borbarad
Well...he said that they should leave all the Jedi they encounter to him just before Mace shows up.

Actually Mace force pushed the droids back while fighting Dooku then Dooku says that Mace "of course won't kill him...not today" (at which day then ?) and then the droids grab Mace from behind and you have Dooku suggesting that they "will keep [Mace] occupied while [Dooku] makes his depature".

Really. Mace and Dooku are pretty close to each other in terms of raw force power, force control and lightsaber ability but I don't see why Dooku should allow his droids to interrupt the fight - when he just told them that they should leave all Jedi to him right before Mace shows up - if he didn't think that Mace would be able to defeat him. This is also the only explanation for Dooku's own comment that Windu won't kill him today.

Why should we assume that Mace can't take Dooku if Dooku himself as it seems suggests that Mace might be able to do that ?

Ah, I see. Didn't know much about the book. Haven't wasted the time yet to read it.

It's possible Dooku didn't want to kill Mace at all, since his motives are surprisingly obscure.

Dooku's problem in Dark Rendesvouz was more intimidation of his old master than lack of skill. Initially, Dooku was winning. But fear crept into his mind and undermined the fight.

He said he wanted to "Pwn some Jedi"? Quote him, please.

No, they grabbed Mace and put him by the Cliff. Mace was unable to escape from the two droids and Dooku just walked away from it. Yeah, he's going to pull the droids off and continue the fight.

Nope. It means only he and Yoda could *stand a chance* against Dooku.

Damn, that was pointless, Borbarad already said everything I just did and probably did it better, too. oh well.

The book didn't say Mace'd stand a chance against Dooku, it said he could beat Dooku. Of course Dooku could possibly win against anybody if he fought them enough times.

No? It specifically said "stand a chance".

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]The book didn't say Mace'd stand a chance against Dooku, it said he could beat Dooku. Of course Dooku could possibly win against anybody if he fought them enough times.

No? It specifically said "stand a chance". [/B]

My bad, your right. Here's what it said:

Amongst the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.

Hmm... so the book says they're equal. I thought it said Mace could beat him. My bad. So they're equal on neutral ground, but if they fought on Vjun Dooku'd win. But, still judging from Obsession, Mace'd win on neutral ground, but it could go either way.

Then Dooku runs away as fast as he can, telling a Magnaguard to shoot Commander Asajj, since she'll never make it to the shuttle in time when she can't have been more than 30 seconds away, showing what a hurry Dooku was in.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Then Dooku runs away as fast as he can, telling a Magnaguard to shoot Commander Asajj, since she'll never make it to the shuttle in time when she can't have been more than 30 seconds away, showing what a hurry Dooku was in.

From the looks of that battle they were on par at best except for Dooku's final blow to Mace before they dragged him away, which looked to be in his offensive favor.

Dooku and him were on par, that's why Dooku didn't want to duel him.

If they're on par, there is a 50/50 chance Dooku will lose or Dooku will win. Dooku knew this so he fled the scene.

Indeed, or perhaps even if Dooku was fairly superior, he knew there was a chance he could die or lose, thus he chose not to take that risk.