Superboy Prime vs. Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I've read a LOT of comics where I think of far better ways to get over on enemies. Unfortunately your thoughts or mine on that are fairly worthless.

What was shown. Superboy is far stronger than the wills and abilities of 50 GL's. Hal Jordan was taken out fairly easily. 2 Supermen struggled with him even when they were as you say "normal" and he pulled his best feats even before the armor showed up.

Surfer can amp up all day, he'll NEVER physically move planets around the universe at faster than light speeds. So fast that they seemed to materialize in their new orbits.

Even if SS destroyed SBP's armor and fired red sunlight, he'd be dead LONG before it had any real effect on SBP. Face it, he can't or hasn't even transmuted Thanos costume or pulled ANY of the tactics you suggested against the titan even when in a simple battle. SBP is just as merciless as the titan, and far faster/stronger.

SS loses this.

P.S. The phantom zone arrow warps you into the phantom zone. There isn't any if, ands, or but's about it. The guy punched his way out. Don't try to discredit him simply because you didn't like how he was written.

Still immaterial.

Contrary to popular belief (and in the case of DC Comics, popular convention), not all battles must be relegated to slugfests.

Superboy Prime's strength advantage is a moot point.

Surfer has been displayed to transmute elements, so it is an option for him. The reason he never transmutes Thanos's armor is because it would shorten the plot of the comic book. It's the same reason Supes doesn't just punch off all of his villains heads in the first 2 panels.

That's not a problem here on the forums, however.

Surfer can remove Superboy Prime's armor and emit red sunlight while moving, or he can make himself intangible. He's not incapable of multi-tasking.

Superboy Prime's brute strength is of no consequence, this is not a boxing match, it's an all abilities at play death match with no plot.

Surfer has the edge.

Nothing Superboy Prime did in the comics changes that fact.

The only thing Superboy Prime has on Surfer is physical strength, and that's given to Surfer not having time to amp his strength via power cosmic to compensate.

Surfer doesn't have to resort to a physical confrontation to beat Superboy Prime, he has many options. Other than punching Surfer out (if Surfer's dumb enough to trade blows with him), nothing in Superboy Prime's arsenal is anything Surfer can't handle.

Superboy Prime is nothing special. He's just Superman in a battlesuit and only got so much hype because of a lawsuit.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
He punched through the Phantom Zone, didn't he? Pre-Crisis isn't a level of power. It's a publishing period. Saying he's a pre-crisis character is basically saying that he's omnipotent, when he isn't. Didn't they say he's more of a threat than the anti-monitor? Yeah, that really happened. 😬

Nobody said SBP is omnipotent, as a matter of fact, that is what makes him most dangerous. He's absurdly powerful, intelligent and yet highly emotional/unstable.

I however agree that the bigger threat than anti-monitor thing was wrong. SBP went to destroy 1 universe. Anti Monitor destroyed countless universes.

The kid was pretty damn sure he would survive the big bang for some reason and end up the only being in existence.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nobody said SBP is omnipotent, as a matter of fact, that is what makes him most dangerous. He's absurdly powerful, intelligent and yet highly emotional/unstable.

I however agree that the bigger threat than anti-monitor thing was wrong. SBP went to destroy 1 universe. Anti Monitor destroyed countless universes.

The kid was pretty damn sure he would survive the big bang for some reason and end up the only being in existence.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Still immaterial.

Contrary to popular belief (and in the case of DC Comics, popular convention), not all battles must be relegated to slugfests.

Superboy Prime's strength advantage is a moot point.

Surfer has been displayed to transmute elements, so it is an option for him. The reason he never transmutes Thanos's armor is because it would shorten the plot of the comic book. It's the same reason Supes doesn't just punch off all of his villains heads in the first 2 panels.

That's not a problem here on the forums, however.

Surfer can remove Superboy Prime's armor and emit red sunlight while moving, or he can make himself intangible. He's not incapable of multi-tasking.

Superboy Prime's brute strength is of no consequence, this is not a boxing match, it's an all abilities at play death match with [b]no plot.

Surfer has the edge.

Nothing Superboy Prime did in the comics changes that fact.

The only thing Superboy Prime has on Surfer is physical strength, and that's given to Surfer not having time to amp his strength via power cosmic to compensate.

Surfer doesn't have to resort to a physical confrontation to beat Superboy Prime, he has many options. Other than punching Surfer out (if Surfer's dumb enough to trade blows with him), nothing in Superboy Prime's arsenal is anything Surfer can't handle.

Superboy Prime is nothing special. He's just Superman in a battlesuit and only got so much hype because of a lawsuit. [/B]

Immaterial is what you are trying to run here. The Surfer you are trying to portray simply DOES NOT EXIST.

Intangible? Didnt help MM, and the kid punches through immaterial dimensions. That argument is out of the window.

Speed? Won't help SS in this case.

Strength...we both know SS is far outclassed.

Surfers transmutation is of no consequence. (A) It won't work on SBP directly...magic doesnt work on the guy either.

(B) Trying it on the armor will be just as fruitless. It's not consistent with his fighting style...otherwise, why not encase hulk, thor, or thanos in adamantium, amp up to incalcuble strength, and then fly at 300x light speed and knock their heads off before they can form a thought? Simply because it's not in his power level to do so.

He wouldn't get a chance to do it anyway as he would have his hands full and he would be dead/ko'd long before it would even begin to affect him.

It's not a boxing match, you are correct. Unfortunately, it's not a game of tag either. Fighting smart will buy SS more time but once he is hit..it's game over.

Originally posted by S.S
I don't think he was sure he was gonna survive a big bang the guy's just a maniac.

I agree, but the kid seemed to be pretty damn smart and knew his powers well. It's conceivable that he may have.

Unfortunately, it's also inconclusive at this point.

No, I'm sorry, but Superboy Prime isn't that big of a threat, and he's not going to kill Surfer instantly. Surfers' stood up to beings more powerful than Superboy Prime. He stood up to Mrrungo-Mu.

Martian Manhunter doesn't have Surfer's energy and matter manipulation abilities or speed along with his intangibility, so your comparison is of no consequence.

Other than moving planets, all of Superboy Prime's feats are massacreing weaker opposition and inept GLs. 👇

Hype doesn't mean anything to me.

As for Superboy Prime's dimensional tampering, that was a result of location and instrumentation on top of his powers. He couldn't stand in Central Park and punch it back to New Amsterdam. I've read the comic Avalon, thats' not going to work on me.

The Surfer I'm portraying exists on these boards. Here, he's not given plot devices hindering his abilities. I know I don't need to direct you to the forum rules.

Other than strength, Superboy Prime has nothing on Silver Surfer, and his strength advantage is contingent on Surfer not having the time prior to the fight to amp his own physical strength via the power cosmic to compensate, which he's perfectly capable of doing.

I'm not buying it Avalon. I read the comic. That flavor of the month melted.

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, I'm sorry, but Superboy Prime isn't that big of a threat, and he's not going to kill Surfer instantly. Surfers' stood up to beings more powerful than Superboy Prime. He stood up to Mrrungo-Mu.

Martian Manhunter doesn't have Surfer's energy and matter manipulation abilities or speed along with his intangibility, so your comparison is of no consequence.

Other than moving planets, all of Superboy Prime's feats are massacreing weaker opposition and inept GLs. 👇

Hype doesn't mean anything to me.

As for Superboy Prime's dimensional tampering, that was a result of location and instrumentation on top of his powers. He couldn't stand in Central Park and punch it back to New Amsterdam. I've read the comic Avalon, thats' not going to work on me.

The Surfer I'm portraying exists on these boards. Here, he's not given plots devices hindering his abilities. I know I don't need to direct you to the forum rules.

Other than strength, Superboy Prime has nothing on Silver Surfer, and his strength advantage is contingent on Surfer not having the time prior to the fight to amp his own physical strength via the power cosmic to compensate, which he's perfectly capable of doing.

I'm not buying it Avalon. I read the comic. That flavor of the month melted.

And I find it really funny that Silver Surfer couldn't beat Superboy Prime employing the same tactics Superman and Kal L did.

Slag his armor, red sun light, kill.

Surfer's cosmic awareness would tell him exactly what alloy he's dealing with. He's turned bullets to daisies, I think he can turn an inanimate power suit into the same.

Sorry Av, it was good while it lasted, but DC already provided the blueprint on how to defeat Superboy Prime, and Surfer has the tools to pull it off.

Originally posted by illadelph12
No, I'm sorry, but Superboy Prime isn't that big of a threat, and he's not going to kill Surfer instantly. Surfers' stood up to beings more powerful than Superboy Prime. He stood up to Mrrungo-Mu.

Martian Manhunter doesn't have Surfer's energy and matter manipulation abilities or speed along with his intangibility, so your comparison is of no consequence.

Other than moving planets, all of Superboy Prime's feats are massacreing weaker opposition and inept GLs. 👇

Hype doesn't mean anything to me.

As for Superboy Prime's dimensional tampering, that was a result of location and instrumentation on top of his powers. He couldn't stand in Central Park and punch it back to New Amsterdam. I've read the comic Avalon, thats' not going to work on me.

The Surfer I'm portraying exists on these boards. Here, he's not given plots devices hindering his abilities. I know I don't need to direct you to the forum rules.

Other than strength, Superboy Prime has nothing on Silver Surfer, and his strength advantage is contingent on Surfer not having the time prior to the fight to amp his own physical strength via the power cosmic to compensate, which he's perfectly capable of doing.

I'm not buying it Avalon. I read the comic. That flavor of the month melted.

Whether hype matters to you or not is inconsequential. 50 "weak" GL's are still stronger than 1 herald no matter how you try to word it.
If you read the comic, you also know that the GL's were authorized excessive force and still got whooped...and that was with GUY and HAL in the mix...2 guys who alone would give SS a run for his money.

You also know that SBP was in the phantom zone and punched his way out. If you read the comic, please do tell us what "instrumentation" he used on top of his powers to escape the zone. He simply punched his way out. I own the comic. I'm looking at it right now.

For forum rules, I am following them as well as you are. I can point you to them as well. SBP also doesn't have the "plot points hindering"
him either...ie "bad guy must lose."

SS is outclassed.

Originally posted by illadelph12
And I find it really funny that Silver Surfer couldn't beat Superboy Prime employing the same tactics Superman and Kal L did.

Slag his armor, red sun light, kill.

Surfer's cosmic awareness would tell him exactly what alloy he's dealing with. He's turned bullets to daisies, I think he can turn an inanimate power suit into the same.

Sorry Av, it was good while it lasted, but DC already provided the blueprint on how to defeat Superboy Prime, and Surfer has the tools to pull it off.

Every character has tools for defeat. SS is by far not indestructable, and fists are easier to come up with than 2 Supermen (1 precrisis) flying someone through a red sun to a planet filled with kryptonite for SBP.

The other one is about 6 punches of non planet crushing pace at a normal speed for SS.

Which is more realistic? 🙂

I agree it was a good debate. I'm 100% sure in my choice for winner.
And that's without being a "super" fan of either character.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nobody said SBP is omnipotent, as a matter of fact, that is what makes him most dangerous. He's absurdly powerful, intelligent and yet highly emotional/unstable.

I however agree that the bigger threat than anti-monitor thing was wrong. SBP went to destroy 1 universe. Anti Monitor destroyed countless universes.

The kid was pretty damn sure he would survive the big bang for some reason and end up the only being in existence.

Doesn't mean he could do it though. I'm pretty sure he thought he could take a lot of people. I'd put him a tad above the surfer with much more physical strength

Earth-2 supes is far from pre-crisis levels the guy wasn't that impressive.The 50 GL's were obviously jobbing to SB.

Originally posted by Dayscribe
Doesn't mean he could do it though. I'm pretty sure he thought he could take a lot of people. I'd put him a tad above the surfer with much more physical strength

I agree. We have no conclusive evidence that he could survive that kind of blast. He believed he could for some reason, but at this point, I doubt we'll ever get a chance to see that happen.

I'm fine with SBP. He's far from just a "Tad" stronger than SS though.
He's far superior in the physical catagory. The crisis story was cool in my opinion. I only have 1 real complaint...and that was how easily Alex Luthor was killed.

In my opinion, he was the one that was truly jobbed at the end.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I agree. We have no conclusive evidence that he could survive that kind of blast. He believed he could for some reason, but at this point, I doubt we'll ever get a chance to see that happen.

I'm fine with SBP. The crisis story was cool in my opinion. I only have 1 real complaint...and that was how easily Alex Luthor was killed.

In my opinion, he was the one that was trully jobbed at the end.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Every character has tools for defeat. SS is by far not indestructable, and fists are easier to come up with than 2 Supermen (1 precrisis) flying someone through a red sun to a planet filled with kryptonite for SBP.

The other one is about 6 punches of non planet crushing pace at a normal speed for SS.

Which is more realistic? 🙂

I agree it was a good debate. I'm 100% sure in my choice for winner.
And that's without being a "super" fan of either character.

I wasn't talking about the debate being over, I was talking about Superboy Prime's 15 minutes of fame.

Surfer doesn't have to fly Superboy Prime through a red sun, he can emit the energy signature under his own power. And also, that planet they were fighting on wasn't Krypton, it was Mogo the GL.

While I'm somewhat of a Silver Surfer fan, I think it is important to remember that A) he has be knocked out before by forces I think are well within SBP's ability to match and B) I can't remember off the top of my head an instance where he used high-end matter manipulation in a fight against a powerful opponent so there might be a question to whether he is capable of such a feat sans evidence of it (if he has would someone please post it as I would like to add them to my collection 😄)

Back to the point:

Thanos knocking out SS:
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer34as.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer48sz.jpg

Firelord knocking SS out
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_146_19.jpg

Normally I wouldn't think a typical opponent would be either fast enough or strong enough to get in enough powerful hits to ko the Surfer before he was able to make full use of the versatility inherent in his power cosmic, but SBP just might be.

Also assuming, for a moment, that the Surfer cannot transmute SPB's armor (I wonder if the fact that it is derived from the Anti-Monitor's armor would have any effect on its resistance to transmutation) then the only thing so far that we know is capable of destroying it is a trip through a star and I'm not sure if the Surfer has that kind of firepower at his disposal.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I wasn't talking about the debate being over, I was talking about Superboy Prime's 15 minutes of fame.

Surfer doesn't have to fly Superboy Prime through a red sun, he can emit the energy of his under his own power. And also, that planet they were fighting on wasn't Krypton, it was Mogo the GL.

I know it was mogo, but they flew through the remains of krypton, through a red sun and landed on mogo where they had chunks of Knite all over the place.

SS can emit red sunlight, we know, and that's been debated and countered already. Nothing new there.

SS wins easily

People are talking about Speed, and how he broke this and that.

People also forgot that SS can stop time itself

Originally posted by TheKahn
While I'm somewhat of a Silver Surfer fan, I think it is important to remember that A) he has be knocked out before by forces I think are well within SBP's ability to match and B) I can't remember off the top of my head an instance where he used high-end matter manipulation in a fight against a powerful opponent so there might be a question to whether he is capable of such a feat sans evidence of it (if he has would someone please post it as I would like to add them to my collection 😄)

Back to the point:

Thanos knocking out SS:
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer34as.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer48sz.jpg

Firelord knocking SS out
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_146_19.jpg

Normally I wouldn't think a typical opponent would be either fast enough or strong enough to get in enough powerful hits to ko the Surfer before he was able to make full use of the versatility inherent in his power cosmic, but SBP just might be.

Also assuming, for a moment, that the Surfer cannot transmute SPB's armor (I wonder if the fact that it is derived from the Anti-Monitor's armor would have any effect on its resistance to transmutation) then the only thing so far that we know is capable of destroying it is a trip through a star and I'm not sure if the Surfer has that kind of firepower at his disposal.

Thanos no argument there

Firelord if you read that issue SS isn't trying to battle Firelord mute point.

They did have a real fight didn't go well for firelord

Originally posted by kgkg
Thanos no argument there

Firelord if you read that issue SS isn't trying to battle Firelord mute point.

They did have a real fight didn't go well for firelord