Originally posted by IKC
I said that, but then I told you why it's probably wrong: The attack he used on Aleema didn't so much as sizzle her, or even singe her dress. This is in contrast to the amulet beams which disintigrated the Wyrm's flesh and the temple stone.There's also the minor point that the attacks appear different (and yes, I know they were penciled by two different artists).
IKC. We see Ulic in rage using a similar amulet against Nomi Sunrider (DLotS #6 when the Jedi wanted to bring Ulic back) and all it does is putting her on her ass for a few seconds.
You can't simply ignore all possibilities of force defence when talking about a force attacked used on a force user. And you really can't compare the Massassi Kun casually hit with that blast to force users like DE Sidious, DN Luke or (to stay in Kun's time period) Nomi Sunrider or Aleema.
That's like saying Luke can rip Kun into shreds because he was able to rip the engines of a spaceship apart (and Kun's skin / bones aren't tougher than durasteel) or toss him around like a ragdoll (unless Kun is somehow harder to move than several black holes). Arguing like this you can turn every debate here into a "who uses the force to kill first" or "who has shown the greater use of force TK and will force choke the opponent to death".
Originally posted by IKC
Except for the fact that we've only seen one type of gauntlet amulet and the fact that the replica has a similar appearance to the original.It's actually an assumption that there are many different types of gauntlet amulets. We don't know that.
Hmm...I always thought that this "second amulet" was an inconsisty in the comics since Exar is shown to carry Sadow's amulet on different hands in different comics...
Originally posted by Borbarad
IKC. We see Ulic in rage using a similar amulet against Nomi Sunrider (DLotS #6 when the Jedi wanted to bring Ulic back) and all it does is putting her on her ass for a few seconds.
Oh, you mean that attack that looked like this:
Yeah. Because that looks alot like a beam shot from a gauntlet on the hand that rips through flesh and stone.
Oh yeah. It sure did knock Nomi down. That's why Cay is pretty much falling back the same way she is, right?
Seeing what we want to see again, Nai?
(That was a repost. Try reading some more).
That's like saying Luke can rip Kun into shreds because he was able to rip the engines of a spaceship apart (and Kun's skin / bones aren't tougher than durasteel) or toss him around like a ragdoll (unless Kun is somehow harder to move than several black holes). Arguing like this you can turn every debate here into a "who uses the force to kill first" or "who has shown the greater use of force TK and will force choke the opponent to death".
False analogy, logical fallacy. We know that Jedi are trained to resist Force telekinesis. We have no idea how amulet beams are blocked or even if they can be blocked.
Hmm...I always thought that this "second amulet" was an inconsisty in the comics since Exar is shown to carry Sadow's amulet on different hands in different comics...
Except you're wrong and arguing that it's a mistake begs for proof.
There's the original right after Kun killed the beast. Note, left hand.
There's the second one he has by the time of TSW. Note, right hand.
There's a scan from the very same scene, but after Kun drops the Chancellor. Note, you can see the one on the left hand!
It isn't artist inconsistency, it's design. He has two. Accept it.
Jedi are trained to resist Force telekinesis huh, but to what point can they resist it and I'm assuming it depends on the mastery of it by any gven force user. Luke's telekinesis was shown at a great level, perhaps complete mastery over it. But I'm sure the Jed are trained to resist the basic telekinesis
Originally posted by IKC
[B]Oh, you mean that attack that looked like this:Yeah. Because that looks alot like a beam shot from a gauntlet on the hand that rips through flesh and stone.
Oh yeah. It sure did knock Nomi down. That's why Cay is pretty much falling back the same way she is, right?
Seeing what we want to see again, Nai?
(That was a repost. Try reading some more).
Is this why Ulic in the picture right before that is saying that Nomi should stop trying to use battle meditation on him and she is sitting on the ground while Cay is back on his feet again in the next picture ? Not even talking about the fact that Ulic was pointing the amulet at Nomi and Cay (as you can see in the picture you posted) labels the amulet "deadly" ?
False analogy, logical fallacy. We know that Jedi are trained to resist Force telekinesis. We have no idea how amulet beams are blocked or even if they can be blocked.
Tell me: Is force lightning = force telikinesis because apparently Yoda blocked it with his bare hands. And we know that force TK can be used against a Jedi by a more powerful force user (see Dooku force choking Obi-Wan).
And yes...we don't know how the blasts work (but this can be said about virtually all force attacks) and if they can be blocked. But still: If they can be blocked a trained force user has a greater chance doing something like this compared to a temple wall or a Sith wyrm.
And don't forget that we don't know if Kun can block force lightning (Sidious) or emerald lightning (Luke) either.
Except you're wrong and arguing that it's a mistake begs for proof.
Ah...forget it. I have looked at his fight against Vodo again and he is wearing amulets on both hands there.
Is this why Ulic in the picture right before that is saying that Nomi should stop trying to use battle meditation on him and she is sitting on the ground while Cay is back on his feet again in the next picture ? Not even talking about the fact that Ulic was pointing the amulet at Nomi and Cay (as you can see in the picture you posted) labels the amulet "deadly" ?
This does not indicate that it was the same attack. Are you telling me that Sith Amulets only have one fuction? Can only exhibit one method? Kun's attack literally came from his anger and was giant beams that got bigger as they got further from his hand. The two attacks don't even look alike.
Tell me: Is force lightning = force telikinesis because apparently Yoda blocked it with his bare hands. And we know that force TK can be used against a Jedi by a more powerful force user (see Dooku force choking Obi-Wan).
And yes...we don't know how the blasts work (but this can be said about virtually all force attacks) and if they can be blocked. But still: If they can be blocked a trained force user has a greater chance doing something like this compared to a temple wall or a Sith wyrm.
And don't forget that we don't know if Kun can block force lightning (Sidious) or emerald lightning (Luke) either.
And we don't know if Emerald lightning works on force users, much less someone like Kun. Yes, a more powerful force user can overpower a lesser user, but you'd have to establish that said invidual is stronger in the force.
Originally posted by Illustrious
This does not indicate that it was the same attack. Are you telling me that Sith Amulets only have one fuction? Can only exhibit one method?
That doesn't really matter imho.
The question is: Did Exar use the amulet against Aleema or didn't he do that ?
a)
If he did then he did so to kill her because that was the only reason he came to the place. Then it did nothing more than knock Aleema down for a minute which indicates that the amulet doesn't have a devastating effect on force users.
b)
If he didn't do that then we never saw him using that amulet against powerful force users. That makes me think about the question why he didn't do that. Possible answers:
1)
He just prefers a good lightsaber fight instead of a wtf-I-pwn you instakill. But in this case the question remains why he did tool Odan instead of fighting him with a lightsaber and didn't use the amulet against Ood Bnar after his transformation.
2)
He was still afraid of the amulets power - but I guess that is very unlikely.
3)
He knew that powerful force users would be able to block the effect of the amulet..
And the last possible explanation you gave yourself:
Kun's attack literally came from his anger and was giant beams that got bigger as they got further from his hand. The two attacks don't even look alike.
The amulet is powered by his anger meaning that the blasts are probably weaker if he isn't really pissed. At the very least I don't see Kun blasting people with his amulet on sight since he just never did that.
And we don't know if Emerald lightning works on force users, much less someone like Kun.
The same way we don't know Kun's amulet works on force users, much less someone like DN Luke or DE Sidious. As I said before: You can't ignore the possibilities of force defence against a attack that is powered by the force by saying "Kun blasted a wall - he can blast a powerful force user too".
Yes, a more powerful force user can overpower a lesser user, but you'd have to establish that said invidual is stronger in the force.
True. The point is you have DE Sidious here who received a power up from the population of an entire planet and DN Luke who is at least the most powerful Jedi we have seen so far.
Apparently DE Sidious had enough power on his own to create a force storm (when Darth Bane in Jedi vs Sith was thinking that the same thing needs the power of all Sith Lords on Ruusan) meaning that he had tons of raw power and Luke has displayed insane amounts of raw power too.
I really don't see Kun and Nadd topping that. Of course I don't want to say that Sidious / Luke would simply force pwn Kun / Nadd - but they won't get force pwned vice versa. And in lightsaber combat this can go either way since we basically don't know anything about Nadd's duelling abilities.
Personally I think that Nadd would defeat Sidious, Luke would defeat Exar (both long fights) then Luke defeats Nadd. Or (changing opponents) Nadd and Sidious get defeated rather fast leaving Luke vs Exar and Luke wins (after a furious fight). At the very least that will be a damn close match...imho...
