The Perpetual Prison Crisis

This is an issue which striked me as something interesting to post.

Im sure many of you are familiar with the overcrowding of prisons that is happening, particularly so in te United States as well as Britain.

Now, overcrowding, as you might imagine would bring many difficulties to the prisoners. A cells which are intended to have one person in it, are now accommodating up to 3 people.

Maximum seurity prisons, I remember reading not so long ago have their inmates locked alone in cells for up to 23 hours a day, with no conversation, no reading material, no choice of a movement, no work and no education available.

This all contributes the the mental illness which occurs in prisons, as well as high suicide rate.

Perhaps the question is ''do we care''. I think we SHOULD care, but here are some questions you could think about.

Is prisoner still considered a human being? If so, why are they denied many basic human rights.

What is the purpose of prison? If the prison is to teach the prisoners a lesson or to reform, then overcrowding and institutional racism do not contribute to any kind of education nor reform for these people.

If it is to punish, then you must agree that the kind of mental torture imposed on these people is beyond sinister.

Baring in mind that prisons are full of people whos offences range is vast - from extremely serious, to a petty drug dealing.

Thoughts?

Yeah, too many people are commiting crimes. Sucks for them.

Lil Bitchiness> I think governments around the world are, for various reasons, overlooking the obvious question: WHY are more people than ever committing crimes? I do not adhere to the belief that the police are better than ever.

Prisons are actually rather new. Imprisoning people as punishment is at the most 300 years old. Up until the 17th century there were detention-cells if you like, but they only stored prisoners until sentence and punishment which was usually physical or a fine. A beating, whipping, branding, cutting off an ear, the tongue… or the head were punishment.
So depriving people of their freedom is fairly new. And then expecting the criminals to reform while being locked is fairly new as well.
Strangely enough I suppose prisons were invented so as to NOT infringe on peoples liberties (their bodies)… I guess that was forgotten in the process.

You're right. Prisons being new was something I should have mentioned, as I actually do believe is rather important.

The Prison System is, a you mentioned very new concept, but for many it is still a question of what the actual purpose of the prison is? What is it trying to achieve?

Its interesting that the quater of world's prison population is imprisoned in America alone, and that a black population of 12-14% in the whole country, make a 52% of the prison population.

What is the prison system like in Denmark? Do you guys have overcrowding problems?

Yeah, I say bring back the beatings and whippings. Here in the US people would say that it was against the constitution because its "cruel and unusual". Question is how can that be when that is what was used when that phrase was written.

Personally, I think we should put them to work. Work them hard from sunup to sundown. Then all they'd care about is their little 3 by six space called a bunk. Who says America needs the illegal immigrants? We've got a huge untapped workforce wasting time lifting weights and playing basketball when they should be paying society for what they took.

Originally posted by docb77
Personally, I think we should put them to work. Work them hard from sunup to sundown. Then all they'd care about is their little 3 by six space called a bunk. Who says America needs the illegal immigrants? We've got a huge untapped workforce wasting time lifting weights and playing basketball when they should be paying society for what they took.

This has been done, as well. Prisoners were made to work - but this put a huge problem on people who waren't prisoners.

When prisoners worked and produced something, its a very cheap labour, which made others out of work, as they demanded a good pay.

Privatisation of prisons is however another argument that we could discuss.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Its interesting that the quater of world's prison population is imprisoned in America alone, and that a black population of 12-14% in the whole country, make a 52% of the prison population.

I wonder why that is?

Institutional racism, prejudice and bigotry?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Institutional racism, prejudice and bigotry?

Maybe, also alot more crime perhaps as a percentage of black population as well.

Originally posted by Soleran
Maybe, also alot more crime perhaps as a percentage of black population as well.

What do you mean?

Just that maybe there are more crimes as a percentage of the black population then not.

Why would you feel its a biggoted, racist and prejudice system? It may very well be but what would make you draw that conclussion aside from the original numbers you posted?

How can 12-15% of your population fill 52% of your prison system? There has to be something wrong there.

Black person is 6 times more likely to get arrested than white person...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This has been done, as well. Prisoners were made to work - but this put a huge problem on people who waren't prisoners.

When prisoners worked and produced something, its a very cheap labour, which made others out of work, as they demanded a good pay.

Privatisation of prisons is however another argument that we could discuss.

Yes, but it was done in a time when most of America wasn't educated. People keep saying there's all these jobs that Americans won't do, that that's why we should let illegal imigrants stay here, that they do these jobs for less money. Well, we could save even more money by using the prison inmates instead. Only people who it seems it would hurt are people that shouldn't be here anyway.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How can 12-15% of your population fill 52% of your prison system? There has to be something wrong there.

Black person is 6 times more likely to get arrested than white person...

First off, the african american population is closer to 30 percent. Still a disparity, but not as large as you make it seem.

As far as likelyhood of arrest goes - there are several possible reasons. One is the one you imply, a biased judicial system. Another is that more crime is commited by blacks. Even if that is the reason there's something wrong, but the solution would be different.

lil bitchiness:How can 12-15% of your population fill 52% of your prison system? There has to be something wrong there.

Black person is 6 times more likely to get arrested than white person...

Or 6 times more likely to commit the crime.

Take San Jose, where I used to live.

40% hispanic
30% black
15-20% white
10-15% asian/indian/other

It's expected with those kind of numbers that more black or hispanic individuals would be arrested/sent to prison, no?

What about other culturally diverse areas, like L.A., New York, Chicago, Atlanta, etc......

I'm not even trying to deny the racial profiling of African Americans by police and government officials, I know it happens, and it's totally wrong.

But I think its a complicated issue too, not just..... black and white. 😛

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How can 12-15% of your population fill 52% of your prison system? There has to be something wrong there.

Black person is 6 times more likely to get arrested than white person...

Have you been to a ghetto in the USA? Have you seen section 8 housing and seen or heard what happens there? Now I am not an expert but I can tell you I have. Drugs dealt on the street in daylight, prostitutes, guns being shot..................

Anyway blame the institiion for part of it hey whatever but people that go to jail 90% of the time commit the crime, so ask the criminals why before we blame the system..........the source.

Lil Bitchiness>"What is the prison system like in Denmark? Do you guys have overcrowding problems?"
Yep. There are being built new prisons. I don't think the Danish Prison system is as harsh as, say, the American, with the exception of isolation - which is being debated as a violation of human rights.

I think, that with the 17th century came the idea of PERSONAL LIBERTIES, the revolutions in France and the overseas colonies saw the end of feudalism, and the beginning of LIBERAL thinking. At the center was the indiviaul and its inviolable rights. Liberty/freedom being one of them. Slavery was abolished so was serfdom.
So IMPRISONMENT was probably invented as a HARSH punishment, namely taking away from an indiviual its freedom.

Since the West is in social/economic crisis the rise in crime in its wake should surprise no one.

In our day and age there is still racism. In western countries the percentage of immigrant/coloured people who're poor is still high compared to the percentage of said groups in many countries. Poverty is linked to crime.
As you say, US blacks are more likely to be suspected of crime and arrested. The same goes here in DK for our Arab immigrants, who just has a harder time getting ajob due to their last names (studies have proven this to be a fact).

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How can 12-15% of your population fill 52% of your prison system? There has to be something wrong there.

Black person is 6 times more likely to get arrested than white person...

It has a good deal to do with the upbringing and the situation as well. A large portion of blacks live in the inner city areas which are low income and very dangerous, and this gets a lot of them into lifestyles they wouldn't have if they were born into middle class neighborhoods in some nice suburban area. And when it comes to sentencing, you might have a white kid picked up for drunk driving who comes to court with family, money, and a nice suit and gets a slap on the wrist, while a black person doing the same crime will come with an inner city disposition and no family support, and generally create a different image before the judge. And even when the judge is also black, this does not favor the accused, since they are assumed to be hoodlums up to no good. It's an unfair generalization, but that's how it -usually- goes down. At least, where I've lived.

Of course, you've got to keep in mind that a large portion of men in the penal system also suffer from mental diseases or even having an extra Y chromosone in their makeup which makes them far more violent.

Originally posted by Soleran
Have you been to a ghetto in the USA? Have you seen section 8 housing and seen or heard what happens there? Now I am not an expert but I can tell you I have. Drugs dealt on the street in daylight, prostitutes, guns being shot..................

Anyway blame the institiion for part of it hey whatever but people that go to jail 90% of the time commit the crime, so ask the criminals why before we blame the system..........the source.

Originally posted by Soleran
Have you been to a ghetto in the USA? Have you seen section 8 housing and seen or heard what happens there? Now I am not an expert but I can tell you I have. Drugs dealt on the street in daylight, prostitutes, guns being shot..................

Anyway blame the institiion for part of it hey whatever but people that go to jail 90% of the time commit the crime, so ask the criminals why before we blame the system..........the source.

I agree.

I can speak from example, me and my family have lived off of welfare and in Section 8 housing for about 2 years. It was horrible. We had to constantly watch our back as well as lock every door you own. Cars as well as your house.

Our neighbors were druggies, dope addicts, and pot smokers. There were practically no white people living there. I would say there about 40% blacks, 45% percent Latino, and about 15% was made out of other minority races. Indian, Filipino(My race), Chinese, and Moroccan. Some of our neighbors were very friendly. Some would constantly ignore us. Out of the 2 years we lived there, My car was broken into by a black tenant. Our house was broken into via the back window of my house was completely removed and we lost about 600 dollars in cash and other valuables to a black tenant. Those were my neighbors. Sure they got caught and went to prison but the majority of people who do commit crimes in the US are blacks IMHO.

We moved away from that place about 3 years ago and are now living in Northern Nevada without financial aid from the government. It's great living here with my 3 kids and being able yo bear arms to protect my family if need be. Those break ins happened when we were out of town. If we were home at the time, things could have certainly got violent real fast.

The only problem I have with jail, is the punishment that is not received by The Jail institution itself. But the punishments received by the other Jail mates. That to me is what makes Jail such an awful and scary place.

When People **** up, they go to jail. It is their decision, no one else's. If they aren't smart enough to realize the penalties and the consequences that Jail has to offer. Than by all means, they deserve to go with god as their witness.

More people going to jail? More people to learn from.