Vader=Smart, Maul=Stupid. In a duel the smarter fighter wins there is the equation. Vader is stronger more skilled and smarter, Maul is a raging psycopath who is extremely fast, weaker, and agile. In a batttle of equal intellegence strength and speed would be dead even, neither is superior however when adding in the smart fighter bit Vader wins.
Many people will say "Oh, how can you say Maul is stupid, how ow how!" and I will answer by giving you three questions. The ship is taking off on Tatooine it's already gone and there is no way to achieve your goal of killing a Queen, what do you do, track them and wait for the oppertune moment using the fact that no one knows you exist to your advantage or blindly attack thus alerting all the jedi in the galaxy that the sith are back. Next point. You are at the Naboo palace your goal is to still kill the Queen. You have all the security cameras in the entire fricken palace working for you and (judging by how fast Maul reacted to the attack on the Palace) you already know an attack is emminent. What do you do, send a vast force to go on the defensive and blast the Queen, while you wait in the shadows until you have an oppertune moment to assassinate the Queen when she is seperated from the jedi. Or do you strike a pose and wait until the jedi open a door so you can have a duel with two people possibly as powerful or moreso than you, while letting your target get away. Final question you killed a jedi master (good job) and the padawan is attacking you, now you are using the force so you are not tired at all. The padawan stupidly charges forward and you attack him. Your opponent is in a rage so he's being sloppy so you take it easy (at least I hope you are a padawan attacking sloppily cuts your weapon in half, you better be taking it easy). He cuts your weapon in half but you still out maneuver him and he falls into a pit but is still in reach. Do you kill him and complete your task or killing the queen. Or do you sit back and play around while your army is loosing outside and a kid in a ship is destroying you're allies command center. I'm hoping that the correct answers to these three questions are obvious.
Now it is possible that Maul could defeat Vader, like in the comic books before Vader you know, got used to wearing an extra 200 pounds werever he goes. But during RotJ Vader was supposed to be a fighting god, though the movies definatly don't show it the mechanics for making the Vader suit were superior to that the created General Grievous. He was supposed to be faster and stronger. However, try having an actor do this while wearing a roughly 75 pound suit before graphics were so advanced where you don't even need a stand in to make something look real and it is really impossible.
What people truly need to learn is that swinging the blades around and looking cool (as they do in the new trilogy) is more often then not stupid leaving your entire body open to a cut while you are attacking odd areas which you have no real chance of hitting. And the jumping and the spinning oh I will be the first to admit that it looks kick ass, and Maul looks truly creepy however in the originals Vader used true Claymore/Broadsword style which kept him completely covered while he toyed with his son since he was never willing to kill him. And judging by Luke's attacks and fighting style there were many, many openings that Vader could have used to rip his son apart in RotJ however he didn't.
My last tally to why Vader would win is simple Maul is easy to read when he is attacking he snears and makes concentrating faces that a good fighter could recognize to their advantage. Try reading a mask...you tell me when that works for you.
Originally posted by Dienekes
Vader=Smart, Maul=Stupid. In a duel the smarter fighter wins there is the equation. Vader is stronger more skilled and smarter, Maul is a raging psycopath who is extremely fast, weaker, and agile. In a batttle of equal intellegence strength and speed would be dead even, neither is superior however when adding in the smart fighter bit Vader wins.
Maul's stupid? Obviously not since he was smart enough to put mining colonies against each other using his mere stealth, instead of facing them head on - thus securing the planet for the Trade Federation. How, pray tell, is Vader going to be using his supposed "brains" when his head is severed from his body?
Anyways, smart fighter? Look at you're below points, they have nothing to do with fighting "smarter", just Maul's mistakes, that weren't even during battle. The only part that's even relevant would be toying with Obi-Wan when he's doing a cliffhanger.
Many people will say "Oh, how can you say Maul is stupid, how ow how!" and I will answer by giving you three questions. The ship is taking off on Tatooine it's already gone and there is no way to achieve your goal of killing a Queen, what do you do, track them and wait for the oppertune moment using the fact that no one knows you exist to your advantage or blindly attack thus alerting all the jedi in the galaxy that the sith are back.
This proves he's stupid? Everyone makes mistakes, I seem to recall Vader making a few mistakes here and there as well. Obviously it didn't do too much damage anyways.
Next point. You are at the Naboo palace your goal is to still kill the Queen. You have all the security cameras in the entire fricken palace working for you and (judging by how fast Maul reacted to the attack on the Palace) you already know an attack is emminent. What do you do, send a vast force to go on the defensive and blast the Queen, while you wait in the shadows until you have an oppertune moment to assassinate the Queen when she is seperated from the jedi. Or do you strike a pose and wait until the jedi open a door so you can have a duel with two people possibly as powerful or moreso than you,
Obviously not as powerful as Maul, seeing as he holds them both of, knocks them around all over the place. Then, when isolated - he kills Qui-Gon, then beats the shit out of Kenobi.
Final question you killed a jedi master (good job) and the padawan is attacking you, now you are using the force so you are not tired at all. The padawan stupidly charges forward and you attack him. Your opponent is in a rage so he's being sloppy so you take it easy (at least I hope you are a padawan attacking sloppily cuts your weapon in half, you better be taking it easy). He cuts your weapon in half but you still out maneuver him and he falls into a pit but is still in reach. Do you kill him and complete your task or killing the queen. Or do you sit back and play around while your army is loosing outside and a kid in a ship is destroying you're allies command center. I'm hoping that the correct answers to these three questions are obvious.
Albeit, I'll admit that was an idiotic mistake, but still -- in a heated duel, why the hell would he go out and leave a Jedi hanging on edge? It's Sith nature to be overconfident, and cocky. And, obviously taking out the Jedi would provide use, as so they don't interfere with affairs later on.
Now it is possible that Maul could defeat Vader, like in the comic books before Vader you know, got used to wearing an extra 200 pounds werever he goes. But during RotJ Vader was supposed to be a fighting god, though the movies definatly don't show it the mechanics for making the Vader suit were superior to that the created General Grievous. He was supposed to be faster and stronger. However, try having an actor do this while wearing a roughly 75 pound suit before graphics were so advanced where you don't even need a stand in to make something look real and it is really impossible.
I know Vader can be agile at times. Crimson Empire points this out, and shows us he's not just a clunky robot. However, I highly doubt he's on the agility level of Maul, both in the movies and EU.
What people truly need to learn is that swinging the blades around and looking cool (as they do in the new trilogy) is more often then not stupid leaving your entire body open to a cut while you are attacking odd areas which you have no real chance of hitting. And the jumping and the spinning oh I will be the first to admit that it looks kick ass, and Maul looks truly creepy however in the originals Vader used true Claymore/Broadsword style which kept him completely covered while he toyed with his son since he was never willing to kill him.
And, I suspect that Luke is on par in saber skills, hell in any skills, with Maul, right? Luke doesn't even know how to attack properly, Maul, however, does.
And judging by Luke's attacks and fighting style there were many, many openings that Vader could have used to rip his son apart in RotJ however he didn't.
See above.
My last tally to why Vader would win is simple Maul is easy to read when he is attacking he snears and makes concentrating faces that a good fighter could recognize to their advantage. Try reading a mask...you tell me when that works for you.
Easy to read? I suppose that's why when he made a face, Qui-Gon fell like he had a lightsaber through his torso. Oh wait, he did.
Better question: what's a "sneer" going to tell? That he's pissed?
Maul doesn't need to see Vader's ugly mug. One could point out that he could easily just listen for Vader's heavy panting, giving away his location if Maul wanted to hide in the shadows, or behind an object for a sneak attack.
Watch Maul fighting every swing he makes he grimaces sneers and then stars directly at where he's going to attack, Obi-Wan doesn't do this, Qui-Gon does on and off, and Anakin does on and off. In a true fight being able to read your opponent is a key ability, neccessary to win. Now it is not all about facial features it is about body positioning and stance. Why Vader was so much a threat when he was in suit is he always had only one stance that could not be read wether he was going offensive or defensive. The actor who plays Maul I give kudos to he is an expert at quarterstaff. However the entire style of quarterstaff has a weakness involving positioning and openings invloving torso movement, I hope people can see that when he fights.
One thing I never understood was the panting. Using the force you should never get tired, and mechanics should keep the breathing at a steady pace, a bit confusing and illogical but I will give this as a weakness of Vader.
An interresting thing I always found about Lucas was his constant changing of mind. At one point right after the first movie came up he stated all he wanted Maul to be was a weak apprentice who makes big mistakes and alerts the Jedi to the Sith. After he realized how much everyone liked Maul (and yes he did make a crappy movie better) his opinion of Maul seemingly changed to one of Well he was good I guess I'd better start making a back up story like I did with Boba Fett (Which if you've every read his notes on Boba Fett you will recognize my chagrim on this character also).
Vader, mistakes however you got me stumped. As Anakin Skywalker I can give you a list full of mistakes. After all he was at least as whiny (and stupid) as Luke was.
God knows Lucas and I disagree with a lot of things, most of them actually. One of these things is the inherant ease Luke learns how to duel with a lightsaber. According to Lucas during RotJ Luke was as good a lightsaber duelist as Mace Windu (load of bull in my opinion, Windu has nice good strokes that do not leave openings, while Luke still hasn't learned not to do a spin when he attacks and raise your lightsaber over your head on a crush blow (however Windu does also do this against Palpatine so maybe he wasn't as good as I thought, though this was again probably Lucas trying to look cool)
Now Maul=idiot we look at his abilities outside of the movies. In one comic he gains a completely knew personality, he stays in the shadows shows almost no anger and uses trickery to get what he wants. Bravo! Not only is this contradictory to Mauls nature but I will admit it makes a good story (yes this is the Mining bit). The other time we see him in comics (I only go by pre-PM comics because one thing Lucas has not changed is that Maul DID NOT BECOME RESSURECTED AND FIGHT VADER) (though that was a kick ass comic). Now during Mauls training Palpatine tells his student to go take down the Black Sun, quietly innfiltrating and making sure that it is unlinkable to the Sith. And Maul goes besserk killing everybody. Hm...let me think quietly innfiltrating/berserk. They seem mutually exclusive to me. And the real kicker is how does he kill all the Black Sun leaders, he makes no plans nothing. He ignites his lightsaber and gets hacking. Let me think someone obviously powerful in the darkside, able to kill many in short order and IS USING A LIGHTSABER. Nope impossible to link to the Sith. And the real kicker is when he should have killed the leader of the black sun he started talking too him and listening to him. He didn't read his opponent and apperently didn't even think "Wait this guy is the Godfather of a criminal organization which gained power through trickery, maybe I shouldn't follow him down this long dark path." And then after obvious talking about death Maul even gets nicked by this guy with a knife/saber thing. Good job Maul.
The final bit of infermation before I'm done spewing things that will most likely be ignore is his lightsaber skill. At the end of Mauls training he fought Palapatine using lightsabers and failed miserably. Vader however was a better lightsaber duelist than Palpatine. You people are smart read the last pararaph again and eventually the meaning will come to you.
I apologize that was a bit rude, but o well (there should be a sarcasm button on the keyboard).
And as a coup de Grace on Mauls stupidity I give you a direct quote from Lucas himself "Also, unlike Tyranus and Vader, Sidious used him more as a tool than as an apprentice; he had no cunning, merely an unfailing devotion to his master."
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, wait...this happened before...with Maul being aided by three dark side prophets. Vader killed him.
This happened before? z0mg HE WON IN A NON-CANON STORY, and he had to stab himself! Bravo Vader, you put your life at stake, having to go to such extreme measures to defeat a single opponent.
Yes, I'm sure if this was to be anything like Resurrection, he'd be able to stab himself so precisely.
I don't think Maul would win, however, I just disagree with Maul being an idiot, and whatever non-canon elements are thrown in (i.e. Resurrection).
Originally posted by Lightsnake
according to Wiki, part 5
"According to wiki", you might as well bring something official. If you haven't even read the material in question, why mention it? Wiki isn't official.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dark_Forces_Saga
Yes, and under "Part 5", I don't see anything about Resurrection in there.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
To quote: References to the prophets of the dark side being on Kalakar when Vader was.Plus, there were insinuations in Insider as well, apparently.
And once more, it's not a contradictory story
It's a "what-if" story, it doesn't have to contradict anything, or it could contradict whatever the hell it wants.
And, what are you quoting? Wikipedia on Resurrection? Because:
There are references to the Prophets of the Dark Side being on Drommund Kalkalar in part 5 of the Dark Forces Saga.
Resurrection was selected as one of Star Wars Insider 83's 20 Most Memorable Moments of the Expanded Universe.