Originally posted by Archangelysses
Just because Maul could spin his blade quicker does not have the same effect.Lukes style was basically Djem So. Therefore the strikes he was swinging were goddamn powerful. Speed is not essential here
(As previously stated a rapier and a claymore are deadly swords and both can kill but blocking the claymore is a lot harder than the rapier)
He broke through Vaders defence, not eluded or evaded the defence as most cases whilst speed is the factor but BROKE through it. Smashed it. I can tell you it is easy to block speed strikes but harder to block power strikes.
I agree with that, but not this:
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Remember Makashi lost to Djem So and Makashi is the ultimate in dueling bladework.
Dooku lost because Anakin
physically grabbed him. He did not break through the Count's defences as Luke did against Vader.
Djem So is the form that best counters Makashi, but it does not necessarily mean victory for the user, particularly when
both fighters use agressive styles.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
taking this into account, also with Vaders new style that mixed Makashi, Soresu and Djem So, then you have a style that was basically unbeatable.
But it
was beaten, you said that yourself, and, to make matters worse, it was beaten by a half-trained boy swinging wildly, not through actual skill.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Maul killed Bondarra and Qui Gon. He had to stun Qui Gon first.
Even had he not stunned Qui-Gon first, Maul would have eventually won, as Ataru's weakness is it's relatively poor defenses.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Lets look at this objectively Obi Wan has the upper hand with Maul until Maul uses Force Push (Watch the Movie, it shows this)
The movie
also shows Maul regain all the ground he initially lost from Obi-Wan's charge, when his saber was cut in two, and he goes back on the offensive.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Anakin beats Tyranus,
As above, Anakin
overpowered Dooku, he did not actually out-duel him. Even at his most furious, none of his blows touched Dooku. Yes, he forced the Count on the defensive, but given the 60 year gap in their ages, is it any wonder Anakin was strong enough to do that? Djem so is a form that relies on strength, Makashi does not.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
then gets an even more unbeatable style after the lava flow beauty and therapuetic skin treatment.
In the novelization of RotS, Mace pointed out that both his and Yoda's styles of fighting were to compensate for weaknesses, and that is the case of Vader's hybrid style. It is something done to compensate for his weaknesses following his maiming. As above, that 'unbeatable style'
was beaten by a half-trained boy.
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Conclusion - Vader only improved as he aged, therefore by the time of ROTJ he was better than when he axed Tyranus, so he would have axed Maul.
I disagree that Vader improved as he aged. He learned to compensate for horrific injuries, but that does not necessarily constitute 'improvement', particularly when you compare RotJ Vader to AotC Anakin. Vader was a shadow of his former self, not an improvement. So because of that, the A, B, C argument simply does not apply.
In RotJ, Vader was a physical wreck compared to his youth. Maul on the otherhand, was the same age as Anakin in RotS, and had spend his entire life being trained as a Sith Warrior. If Luke's strength enabled him to overcome Vader, then Maul, who was much more highly trained, would have no difficulty in doing the same.