grey fox vs vamp

Started by samishe5 pages

Originally posted by kamikz
I guess, but he didn't toss to many in-game because it would be to hard, so it would be harder now where he would throw them almost everywhere....... I don't know actually, Vamp ridicilousley outclassed Raiden in speed and all the other soldiers as well, he even outclassed Snake which not even Fox did....
Snake punched through Fox armour and made him gasp for air, Vamp almost took Snake's hand in one strike and lifted him with one hand....

I guess it could be considered a fight, but we don't know how it was displayed at all. He was diving in that place a couple of times in gameplay, but at that moment he was standing on the water...I doubt he would stand on the water a couple of more times during the battle.... And as I said, he bowed to Raiden, from what we know he could have shot him when he lifted his head, apparently, Raiden had done this before (When Vamp didn't excpect him to shoot him in the basement with Fortune). And if it haden't been for the water, Raiden would have lost most likley..

Fox does not outclass snake in speed?? He moves faster than human eye reacts. His speed is surely is near or even surpass Vamp's.
And punching through armor and cutting it are different things. I could punch someone through cop's armor and it would hurt. This armor stops bullets but my punch would be effective.
And when Snake fought Fox he was 1)little bit younger(what personally I concider to be advantage) and 2) Fox was his friend. So who knows if he fought Snake with all his full potential.

And i'm sure Hideo Kojima would never allow fight between Raiden and Vamp be like two seconds short.
"Vamp bows and gets shot. The end" 😂 That would be funny.

Originally posted by Stalker 360
vamp wins (speed and invunrebility)
use the search i made this already

...speed?
...invunrebility?

Originally posted by samishe
Fox does not outclass snake in speed?? He moves faster than human eye reacts. His speed is surely is near or even surpass Vamp's.
And punching through armor and cutting it are different things. I could punch someone through cop's armor and it would hurt. This armor stops bullets but my punch would be effective.
And when Snake fought Fox he was 1)little bit younger(what personally I concider to be advantage) and 2) Fox was his friend. So who knows if he fought Snake with all his full potential.

And i'm sure Hideo Kojima would never allow fight between Raiden and Vamp be like two seconds short.
"Vamp bows and gets shot. The end" 😂 That would be funny.

No, he does not... Snake managed every single time to beat Fox when he encountered him. Fox was not his friend, he got drugs which effected his mind and only made him thirst for blood, and even before there duel he said "we will fight to the death". If this means, I will not hurt you as much as I could then that's something new to me....
And if you have played MG 2, Fox and Snake fights eachother to the death, Snake wins. Fox simply wanted a rematch, and lost again.... Even when he used his sword (when he cut of Ocelot's hand) he did not manage to defeat Snake...

I never said he only could cut, my point was that he would punch, and it would be far more effective than Snake's punches....

And it was Fox who betrayed and chose to fight Snake, I'd say Snake was more resistant to fighting than Fox. He even wanted to crush him in MG...

Why not? The player has to play through it of course, but the fight itself doesen't canonically have to be long. I could say the same thing about Vamp in the basment, IF there was a fight there....

Originally posted by kamikz
No, he does not... Snake managed every single time to beat Fox when he encountered him. Fox was not his friend, he got drugs which effected his mind and only made him thirst for blood, and even before there duel he said "we will fight to the death". If this means, I will not hurt you as much as I could then that's something new to me....
And if you have played MG 2, Fox and Snake fights eachother to the death, Snake wins. Fox simply wanted a rematch, and lost again.... Even when he used his sword (when he cut of Ocelot's hand) he did not manage to defeat Snake...

I never said he only could cut, my point was that he would punch, and it would be far more effective than Snake's punches....

And it was Fox who betrayed and chose to fight Snake, I'd say Snake was more resistant to fighting than Fox. He even wanted to crush him in MG...

Why not? The player has to play through it of course, but the fight itself doesen't canonically have to be long. I could say the same thing about Vamp in the basment, IF there was a fight there....

By this logic Raiden outclasses Vamp in speed. Who nows may be he beat him h2h. His punches also effected Vamp in the game.
And in MGS Snake fought Fox only once as far as i remember.

So why should Vamp defeat Fox h2h? What does he have to do that?

As I said, we don't know how the fight went, he could have shot him when he bowed.... And even if this didn't happened, then you're point is crushed as well, then none will outmatch the other in speed... But since we don't know about the fight....

He fought him once in MG and defeated him, even though he had been running through a hellofa large place, fighting unimaginable foes and guards, and taken large damage. Still he kicked his ass. In MGS he defeated him twice, one was a video, second was a gameplay fight and a video....

Because Vamp took him down in H2H combat easily. He just knocked his gun away and grabbed his face and threw him up a wall, lifting him with one hand. His strike almost took Snake's hand, he had to rest afterwards.... Vamp is damn fast and damn strong, and it is still doubted he can die. As he said himself, "I've died once already, I cannot die twice"

Originally posted by kamikz
As I said, we don't know how the fight went, he could have shot him when he bowed.... And even if this didn't happened, then you're point is crushed as well, then none will outmatch the other in speed... But since we don't know about the fight....

He fought him once in MG and defeated him, even though he had been running through a hellofa large place, fighting unimaginable foes and guards, and taken large damage. Still he kicked his ass. In MGS he defeated him twice, one was a video, second was a gameplay fight and a video....

Because Vamp took him down in H2H combat easily. He just knocked his gun away and grabbed his face and threw him up a wall, lifting him with one hand. His strike almost took Snake's hand, he had to rest afterwards.... Vamp is damn fast and damn strong, and it is still doubted he can die. As he said himself, "I've died once already, I cannot die twice"

So how can you judge about their fight during the gameplay?
Snake didn't really fought Fox h2h. Most of the time of the gameplay Fox was freaking out, jumpind and destroying surroundings.

Uh what? I'm not, I'm juding the cut scenes from their fight. Snake was indeed fighting Fox unarmed, didn't you see the cut scene? He totally kicked his ass, Fox was lying on the ground breathing for his life, Snake could have killed him there if he wanted to...

Snake only defeated Fox due to luck or some type of advantage, not because he was the better combatant. I doubt Snake as of MGS2 could even contend with Fox as of MG2. I mean he was the only foxhound agent to ever receive the 'fox' code name and it is hinted throughout the series that Fox was the most powerful in the whole series. Cyborg Fox was even greater and if they had both fought eachother with fair conditions and with luck not being a factor, Fox would completely own Snake.

What? Fox in MGS 2 is far, FAR better than he was before... He was a rookie and still completed a mission Fox did not complete and then he defeated Fox in the other mission. No luck, no advantage, Snake was the better combatent, period. If someone got the advantage it was Fox, Snake had to fight through the whole place, he would have been tired and wounded when he faced him.....

And he defeated him as well in MGS. What do you not understand with the line, "We will fight to the death, no interferance".

By your logic, Raiden was a greater combatant then Vamp because he came out on top against him, and would therefor be able to own Snake as badly as Vamp did.

Damn it, have you read nothing of the above? And Snake defeated Fox 3 times, 3 TIMES. That is not luck by any means...

Originally posted by kamikz
Damn it, have you read nothing of the above? And Snake defeated Fox 3 times, 3 TIMES. That is not luck by any means...

Vamp didn't outclassed Snake in h2h he simply lifted him with his hand, he attacked when Snake didn't see him coming. So Snake didn't really fought him.
Fox lifted Rex foot, so you think lifting Snake with one hand is really a big deal?
And about these 3 times. So first time was in MG, from what i seen it seemed that in the MGS it was the first time when Snake met CyberNinja so may be it wasn't canon in MG? Second time it happened during the cutscene. I haven't ever seen it because there was nothing like that in MGS, only in twin snakes. As you said we can't judge about the fight that happened during the gameplay because anything could've happened then.

I'm judging their speed from the cutscenes and it seems for me that Fox is faster. There was no feat of Vamp that proves that he is even close to Fox in strength.

Actually, Snake was the one who surprised Vamp not vice cersa. Then Vamp was so fast that Snake lost him. Then he attacked, one strike and Snake almost lost his hand. That is far from what Fox ever did. And I'm comparing Vamp's strenght to Snake's, Vamp is so much stronger than Snake and Snake knocked Fox unconscious....
And strenght does not matter if it only lies in how much you can lift, it is how you punch etc. Snake could block Fox moves with ease and not get a scratch, when Vamp touched his arm he almost lost it. After he lifted him up in the air Snake could barley stand up when Vamp left to get the president...

? It is canon, it just wasen't Cyborg, it was Grey Fox before Cyborg. And now you will of course say that cyborg is so much better and I agree, but, that does not change his combat skills and unarmed skills. He still had the same and he has been dead/almost dead for a long time, they shoulden't have improved, only his speed and strenght.

Lol the Twin Snake's is as good material as MGS 1, they are the same only that Twin Snake's got better graphic, moves, cutscenes etc...

Yes it does, and from what I judge in cutscenes then Vamp is faster. We see Fox moving as fast once, and then he is invisible plus he has lost all control over himself. He cannot direct his attacks perfectly and he cannot withstand the pain he is getting, no control at all....

And as we saw in the first cut scene where Fox attacks Snake, he is swinging his sword as hell, you don't swing a sword if you don't want to kill that person. One wrong move and Snake would be dead, but he handeled himself fine, actually, more than fine, he made him run away...

Snake + Raiden were WTF pwned by Vamp at the same time.

Originally posted by kamikz
Actually, Snake was the one who surprised Vamp not vice cersa. Then Vamp was so fast that Snake lost him. Then he attacked, one strike and Snake almost lost his hand. That is far from what Fox ever did. And I'm comparing Vamp's strenght to Snake's, Vamp is so much stronger than Snake and Snake knocked Fox unconscious....
And strenght does not matter if it only lies in how much you can lift, it is how you punch etc. Snake could block Fox moves with ease and not get a scratch, when Vamp touched his arm he almost lost it. After he lifted him up in the air Snake could barley stand up when Vamp left to get the president...

? It is canon, it just wasen't Cyborg, it was Grey Fox before Cyborg. And now you will of course say that cyborg is so much better and I agree, but, that does not change his combat skills and unarmed skills. He still had the same and he has been dead/almost dead for a long time, they shoulden't have improved, only his speed and strenght.

Lol the Twin Snake's is as good material as MGS 1, they are the same only that Twin Snake's got better graphic, moves, cutscenes etc...

Yes it does, and from what I judge in cutscenes then Vamp is faster. We see Fox moving as fast once, and then he is invisible plus he has lost all control over himself. He cannot direct his attacks perfectly and he cannot withstand the pain he is getting, no control at all....

And as we saw in the first cut scene where Fox attacks Snake, he is swinging his sword as hell, you don't swing a sword if you don't want to kill that person. One wrong move and Snake would be dead, but he handeled himself fine, actually, more than fine, he made him run away...

Snake + Raiden were WTF pwned by Vamp at the same time.

If you name any cutscene that prove that Vamp is faster than Fox i'll appreciate it.

Now let's look at it this way. Vamp grabed Snake throat. You can't just not count lifting Rex leg a strength feat. Imagine what presure Fox had to make too hold that kinda weight, now imagine that he grabs Snake's throat with the same strength. It like putting a truck on you throat.

Snake and Raiden were pwned by Vamp, so what? They didn't knew what they were dealing with then. Vamp was pwned by Raiden later. It doesn't matter what happened during the fight. He got pwned anyway.

So in strength Fox beats Vamp anyway.

Didn't you hear? I said Vamp was much stronger than Snake, not Fox. (Although he could be) But Vamp's punches proved much more effective, probably because he almost has claw like fingers and an incredible strenght.
Vamp is shown on several places that he is really, really fast. First scene, Navy Seals are totally gone by his speed. Raiden comes in. Vamp jumps above his head and behind him and just stands there, Raiden is still on his way to look up in the roof.
Vamp reacts so fast he manages to dodge Snake's machine gun fire when he does not even see him. He punches Snake's gun away and Snake almost looses his hand. He grabs him on his FOREHEAD and lifts him over the ground. Raiden shoots but Vamp dodges with minimal effort. He gets a radio call and gets out of there.
Vamp is later shown to run on water and walls, he is so fast that he can actually do that...
Vamp gets into town before Arsenal gear gets there...

There is alot to prove his speed.

One thing is also that Vamp dodges machine gun fire with minimal effort, even several at once. When Fox was fired upon by Rex he actually had a hard time running around dodging everything, he even got hit a couple of times...

Yes Fox could probably crush someones throat, but he didn't manage too. Vamp could have done it as well, although he never actually gripped someones throat...

Did Snake know who Fox was when he first fought him? He still made him run for his money. And as I said, the fight with Raiden is unclear....

And where is you're proof that Fox is so much stronger? Just the feat that he HOLDS Rex foot for some seconds? If Vamp was there he MIGHT as well been able to do the same thing, we just haven't seen him do it. Abscense of proof is not proof of abscense. From what we've seen, Vamp was strong enough to crush Snake's arm with one single punch, but when Fox launched an "in air kick" (both legs) against Snake, Snake parried it but grinded away a couple of meters on his feet. Snake also parried many of Fox's strikes and punched him down...

And I doubt Fox could kill him even if he managed to strike him or hit him, he didn't die when his brain got smashed by two gun bullets and a sniper shot, and humans die when they loose their brains, it's called "braindead".

So to the fight itself, what would happen? Vamp has shown to have incredible moving speed while fighting, Fox hasen't. Vamp flies around the whole room, barley seenable, while Fox almost always fights on equal ground with the opponent. If Vamp launches a couple of freezing stuffs Fox will be unable to move. And when knifes (that tears through Marine armour) comes it might not wound Grey Fox very much, but he could disarm him this way. And how do you figure that bullet proof vests protects much much better against bullets than punches? A guy does not throw a punch as fast as a bullet comes in, and a bullet is having a greater damage. Shooting someone with a bulletproof vest will hurt as hell and sometimes a person cannot breath, what about an income of about 5-6 bullets after eachother? A bullet has alot heavier impact than a punch and someone punching a bullet proof vest ain't going to hurt that person very much.... Bulletproof vests are oftenly made of metal, steel or titanium, and reinforced by ceramic plates, still it only "hopefully" prevents the bullet from reaching the body, and only spreads the energy from the bullet around the vest to decrease the damage. Still it leaves great wounds...
Try wearing a jacket that is big, I have let my friends punch me as hard as they can and I still can't feel 1/10 of what I would normally feel, now put on a vest made of titanium.....
I'd say a knife that comes with such a speed you can't see it would pack a real punch, and if this "punches hurts more than bullets on a bullet proof vest or armour" is true then that knife would hurt a helluvalot more, especially when someone as strong as Vamp tossed it....

Solid Snake versus Cyborg Ninja is PIS. There's no other way to look at it since we have never been told if CN was holding back. I mean if Cyborg Ninja survived getting rammed by Metal Gear's cockpit without even graoning how can Snake's punches cause him pain? The same goes for Vamp getting owned by Raiden. Given Vamp's and Cyborg Ninja's feats they should have never lost to Raiden and Snake.

If memory doesn't fail me Gray Fox in the exoskelleton surpases Vamp's strength by a long shot. I'd like to see Vamp stop Metal Gear Rex's from stomping someone with his strength alone. Since he hasn't the only showing of strength from his part lies in holding a man by his throat? Wow that's impressive...not.

Speedwise Vamp's fast enough to run on water. I give him that. Could he be fast enough to dodge REX's heavy fire? Maybe he could maybe he could not. They are both fast enough to deflect bullets. Nice. It is unclear to me as to who may be faster.

As for the resistance Vamp's got plenty of it, but it still does not compare to Cyborg Ninja's. Vamp's survived getting shot in the forhead by Raiden's S.O.C.O.M, and Cyborg Ninja survived getting hit by REX's heavy artillergy. He also had his left arm sliced off by REX's laser. He endured getting rammed against a wall by REX's cockpit and then getting stomped twice. In my point of view getting rammed by REX's cockpit alone would make a mess out of Vamp's body.

You mentioned the freezing stuff earlier. What makes you so certain it will work on Cyborg Ninja? While I hate using gameplay elements I find myself forced this time. Raiden was able to dodge Vamp's freeze stunt by cartwheeling. Cyborg Ninja is far more acrobatic and faster than Raiden. I really don't see it working on Fox. True Vamp may be immortal. However what will he do when he finds himself losing his head from his body? Fox can dodge REX's heavy artillery, Vamp's knives will do nothing against him in the fight. Vamp will not be able to predict Cyborg Ninja's moves. If Raiden's suit prevented Vamp from telling his moves; what do you think will happen when he tries to read someone wearing an exo-skelleton?

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Solid Snake versus Cyborg Ninja is PIS. There's no other way to look at it since we have never been told if CN was holding back. I mean if Cyborg Ninja survived getting rammed by Metal Gear's cockpit without even graoning how can Snake's punches cause him pain? The same goes for Vamp getting owned by Raiden. Given Vamp's and Cyborg Ninja's feats they should have never lost to Raiden and Snake.

If memory doesn't fail me Gray Fox in the exoskelleton surpases Vamp's strength by a long shot. I'd like to see Vamp stop Metal Gear Rex's from stomping someone with his strength alone. Since he hasn't the only showing of strength from his part lies in holding a man by his throat? Wow that's impressive...not.

Speedwise Vamp's fast enough to run on water. I give him that. Could he be fast enough to dodge REX's heavy fire? Maybe he could maybe he could not. They are both fast enough to deflect bullets. Nice. It is unclear to me as to who may be faster.

As for the resistance Vamp's got plenty of it, but it still does not compare to Cyborg Ninja's. Vamp's survived getting shot in the forhead by Raiden's S.O.C.O.M, and Cyborg Ninja survived getting hit by REX's heavy artillergy. He also had his left arm sliced off by REX's laser. He endured getting rammed against a wall by REX's cockpit and then getting stomped twice. In my point of view getting rammed by REX's cockpit alone would make a mess out of Vamp's body.

You mentioned the freezing stuff earlier. What makes you so certain it will work on Cyborg Ninja? While I hate using gameplay elements I find myself forced this time. Raiden was able to dodge Vamp's freeze stunt by cartwheeling. Cyborg Ninja is far more acrobatic and faster than Raiden. I really don't see it working on Fox. True Vamp may be immortal. However what will he do when he finds himself losing his head from his body? Fox can dodge REX's heavy artillery, Vamp's knives will do nothing against him in the fight. Vamp will not be able to predict Cyborg Ninja's moves. If Raiden's suit prevented Vamp from telling his moves; what do you think will happen when he tries to read someone wearing an exo-skelleton?

His goal by coming to Shadow moses was to fight Snake again. He said he would not get any peace until he fought Snake to the death, and that he did. We saw Fox getting pwned badly. How can someone fake getting hit in a metal suit? By as far as we know, Snake would have broke his legs and hands if he punched like that, but apparently he could.
Fox also hit him with swords and tossed a giant part of the roof against Snake, if Snake had not dodged those he would have been dead for sure. Snake defeated him end of story....

And you make it seem like Fox speed > Everything Snake has. That is not true. You guys have never played Metal Gear 1 and 2 before have you? There Snake defeates a guy named "running man" or something like that. He is the fastest man alive, Snake defeates him without much struggeling. He did it thanks to his skill and his wit. Then he defeated a man who was incredibly strong, THEN he also defeats Big Boss when he has a machine gun and Snake is UNARMED, again thanks to his skill, speed and wit. Big Boss was the best soldier every and Snake was a rookie. He also completed a mission Fox didn't get near completing and he defeated Fox in a battle after getting through a helluva place. Now, for a long time Fox has near dead and revived by a serum and the exo skeleton. So nothing should really have improved on Fox except his speed and his strenght. Apparently, Snake has defeated people who relied on these feats AND Snake has gotten even better and more experienced than when he faced Fox before. I think it is pretty ****ing likley Snake defeated him fair and square....

Really, the only time I've seen Fox match Vamp in speed was when he freaked out thanks to the drugs he got in his suit. That made him go berserk and was not able to control himself. He is not good in this state, only faster and stronger...

It is more likley that Vamp if any, faked against Raiden. There were many times he could have killed him there, and so could many people have done. Raiden was supposed to have survived, it was the S3 systems plan, to make it look like a new Shadow Moses.

Me too, to bad we won't. But he showed incredible strenght by tossing knifes through helmets and killing instantly that way, and almost causing Snake too loose his arm by one punch, then almost rendering him unconscious by grabing his forehead.

Vamp would easily dodge Rex fire. He dodged fire from several machine guns at the same time, without even leaving his position. And these were fired from experienced Navy Seals and marksmen, and from a pretty close distance too. I doubt he would have to budge an inch when dodging Rex canons. As we saw from Fox, he had to run all over the place when he lost his sword....

What? When Fox lost his arm he was no longer being able to fight. He didn't even manage to dodge the slow knee of Metal Gear. He clearly reacted to it (screaming before it comes) but was too wounded. Just that he didn't die speaks nothing for him really...
I doubt Vamp would die easily. How do we know his bones are breakable, if he even has any. He is a vampire, his head got shot twice by a SOCOM and once by a PSG-1. That thing could shoot someone with such an impact that they would fly over 10 meters, and has mm Nato ammo which pierces through armour and is really deadly normally. If that would not crack his skull then what would?

Of course Fox should be able to dodge the freezing stuff, but exactly under what circomstances? Vamp could throw one when they are throwing hits at eachother or seeing where Fox is going to land, it also only has to be close to him...
And Vamp could read Raiden's moves, he did several times in the beginning. He can see how Fox moves by looking at his metal suit, he does not need to see his skin, harder to read muscles but an expert in reading it anyway....

Originally posted by kamikz
Didn't you hear? I said Vamp was much stronger than Snake, not Fox. (Although he could be) But Vamp's punches proved much more effective, probably because he almost has claw like fingers and an incredible strenght.
Vamp is shown on several places that he is really, really fast. First scene, Navy Seals are totally gone by his speed. Raiden comes in. Vamp jumps above his head and behind him and just stands there, Raiden is still on his way to look up in the roof.
Vamp reacts so fast he manages to dodge Snake's machine gun fire when he does not even see him. He punches Snake's gun away and Snake almost looses his hand. He grabs him on his FOREHEAD and lifts him over the ground. Raiden shoots but Vamp dodges with minimal effort. He gets a radio call and gets out of there.
Vamp is later shown to run on water and walls, he is so fast that he can actually do that...
Vamp gets into town before Arsenal gear gets there...

There is alot to prove his speed.

One thing is also that Vamp dodges machine gun fire with minimal effort, even several at once. When Fox was fired upon by Rex he actually had a hard time running around dodging everything, he even got hit a couple of times...

Yes Fox could probably crush someones throat, but he didn't manage too. Vamp could have done it as well, although he never actually gripped someones throat...

Did Snake know who Fox was when he first fought him? He still made him run for his money. And as I said, the fight with Raiden is unclear....

And where is you're proof that Fox is so much stronger? Just the feat that he HOLDS Rex foot for some seconds? If Vamp was there he MIGHT as well been able to do the same thing, we just haven't seen him do it. Abscense of proof is not proof of abscense. From what we've seen, Vamp was strong enough to crush Snake's arm with one single punch, but when Fox launched an "in air kick" (both legs) against Snake, Snake parried it but grinded away a couple of meters on his feet. Snake also parried many of Fox's strikes and punched him down...

And I doubt Fox could kill him even if he managed to strike him or hit him, he didn't die when his brain got smashed by two gun bullets and a sniper shot, and humans die when they loose their brains, it's called "braindead".

So to the fight itself, what would happen? Vamp has shown to have incredible moving speed while fighting, Fox hasen't. Vamp flies around the whole room, barley seenable, while Fox almost always fights on equal ground with the opponent. If Vamp launches a couple of freezing stuffs Fox will be unable to move. And when knifes (that tears through Marine armour) comes it might not wound Grey Fox very much, but he could disarm him this way. And how do you figure that bullet proof vests protects much much better against bullets than punches? A guy does not throw a punch as fast as a bullet comes in, and a bullet is having a greater damage. Shooting someone with a bulletproof vest will hurt as hell and sometimes a person cannot breath, what about an income of about 5-6 bullets after eachother? A bullet has alot heavier impact than a punch and someone punching a bullet proof vest ain't going to hurt that person very much.... Bulletproof vests are oftenly made of metal, steel or titanium, and reinforced by ceramic plates, still it only "hopefully" prevents the bullet from reaching the body, and only spreads the energy from the bullet around the vest to decrease the damage. Still it leaves great wounds...
Try wearing a jacket that is big, I have let my friends punch me as hard as they can and I still can't feel 1/10 of what I would normally feel, now put on a vest made of titanium.....
I'd say a knife that comes with such a speed you can't see it would pack a real punch, and if this "punches hurts more than bullets on a bullet proof vest or armour" is true then that knife would hurt a helluvalot more, especially when someone as strong as Vamp tossed it....

Non of Vamp feats prove that he is faster than Fox. Running on walls and water is not droven by his speed. Dodges machine fire with minimum efforts? Fox does that too but bullets are not that effective on him that's why he don't have to dodge everything.

Just like you said "Abscense of proof is not proof of abscense". You can't concider that Vamp is as strong as Fox only becauser he MIGHT have hold Rex foot. Otacon never was in situation where he had to support such weight, so we should assume that he POSSIBLY could do that? Come on! And crushing arm is not a big deal at all and is nowhere near as impressive as holding Rex's foot. And where the hell did you get that he "almost" crushed his hand. His hand wasn't that damaged after that happened. Vamp could've simply squeezed it hard, hell I can do that.

This is how their fight would be.
Vamp throws his freezing staff at Fox, Fox dodges this attack easilly. Man i don't understand how can't you realise that if Raiden could dodge them Fox could do that with easy.(I know Raiden possibly never had to dodge them but it was possible during the fight so it means that he could).
Besides while fighting on the ground Vamp showed that his fighting speed isn't that great also. When he tries to attack you with knife he runs at you and his strike isn't really that fast.

Again, Vamp would never be able to freeze Fox. In close combat Fox simply cuts his head off. And you still didn't proved that knifes would really damage Fox armor...

Originally posted by samishe
Non of Vamp feats prove that he is faster than Fox. Running on walls and water is not droven by his speed. Dodges machine fire with minimum efforts? Fox does that too but bullets are not that effective on him that's why he don't have to dodge everything.

Just like you said "Abscense of proof is not proof of abscense". You can't concider that Vamp is as strong as Fox only becauser he MIGHT have hold Rex foot. Otacon never was in situation where he had to support such weight, so we should assume that he POSSIBLY could do that? Come on! And crushing arm is not a big deal at all and is nowhere near as impressive as holding Rex's foot. And where the hell did you get that he "almost" crushed his hand. His hand wasn't that damaged after that happened. Vamp could've simply squeezed it hard, hell I can do that.

This is how their fight would be.
Vamp throws his freezing staff at Fox, Fox dodges this attack easilly. Man i don't understand how can't you realise that if Raiden could dodge them Fox could do that with easy.(I know Raiden possibly never had to dodge them but it was possible during the fight so it means that he could).
Besides while fighting on the ground Vamp showed that his fighting speed isn't that great also. When he tries to attack you with knife he runs at you and his strike isn't really that fast.

Again, Vamp would never be able to freeze Fox. In close combat Fox simply cuts his head off. And you still didn't proved that knifes would really damage Fox armor...

I have shown proof, you haven't though. Fox lost his mind and then he was really fast, ok that's it. Also that he has invisibility which would make it even harder for us to see him. Now Fox used his sword to deflect bullets, that is true. But this is only speed in his hands, when he was supposed to dodge Rex bullets he ran around the place like a maniac, never got one moment to stop... Vamp did not move an inch everytime he dodged something...

Oh, so Vamp squeezed his arm in 1/2 second, ok, he is faster than even I thought then. Seriousley, Snake had to sleep after the fight because his arm was bleeding like hell and hurting. When Vamp dropped him on the floor Snake coulden't do anything....

WTF. How come you make it seem like Vamp is going to toss it once, then attack with normal attacks. From what we know, he could toss them when Fox is not prepared, see where Fox is going to land, or simply when Fox is trying to attack him...

When has Vamp fought on equal ground? He jumps around places like a freaking maniac, no one can see him because he is so fast. Fox is invisible, that is why none of them see him....
Again, gameplay. Fox in gameplay is slow as a bastard, he is the easiest boss in the game execluding Ocelot. He totally sucks in gameplay...

Well they woulden't really fly off directly, they could pierce themself to the suit or just knock him really hard. Not much of an attack, but sure something...

You make it seem so easy for Fox. He could not cut Snake that easily, Vamp is not going to be easier. And I doubt he would die of that. ^

And actually, there is no proof Raiden defeated him. From what we saw, Vamp stood in the EXACT same place as he was before the fight. He was also drowning (which does not mean that Raiden won, only that Vamp could no longer fight because he was dragged down underwater). Vamp had also no more gunbullets in his head, only the previous one. Shoulden't there be a mark on him if he got hit again? He could just have been dragged down because the water was really strong....

Originally posted by kamikz
I have shown proof, you haven't though. Fox lost his mind and then he was really fast, ok that's it. Also that he has invisibility which would make it even harder for us to see him. Now Fox used his sword to deflect bullets, that is true. But this is only speed in his hands, when he was supposed to dodge Rex bullets he ran around the place like a maniac, never got one moment to stop... Vamp did not move an inch everytime he dodged something...

Oh, so Vamp squeezed his arm in 1/2 second, ok, he is faster than even I thought then. Seriousley, Snake had to sleep after the fight because his arm was bleeding like hell and hurting. When Vamp dropped him on the floor Snake coulden't do anything....

WTF. How come you make it seem like Vamp is going to toss it once, then attack with normal attacks. From what we know, he could toss them when Fox is not prepared, see where Fox is going to land, or simply when Fox is trying to attack him...

When has Vamp fought on equal ground? He jumps around places like a freaking maniac, no one can see him because he is so fast. Fox is invisible, that is why none of them see him....
Again, gameplay. Fox in gameplay is slow as a bastard, he is the easiest boss in the game execluding Ocelot. He totally sucks in gameplay...

Well they woulden't really fly off directly, they could pierce themself to the suit or just knock him really hard. Not much of an attack, but sure something...

You make it seem so easy for Fox. He could not cut Snake that easily, Vamp is not going to be easier. And I doubt he would die of that. ^

And actually, there is no proof Raiden defeated him. From what we saw, Vamp stood in the EXACT same place as he was before the fight. He was also drowning (which does not mean that Raiden won, only that Vamp could no longer fight because he was dragged down underwater). Vamp had also no more gunbullets in his head, only the previous one. Shoulden't there be a mark on him if he got hit again? He could just have been dragged down because the water was really strong....

So if Fox was running during dodging it means he is slower??

His arm wasn't bleeding, you can't tell that he "almost" smashed his arm. Yes it hurt him so what? It doesn't prove anything, he had to rest. Doesn't prove that he almost lost his arm. How can you really concider that he almost lost it? After that incident he took numerous armed soldiers, fought Fortune and jumped from arsenal gear. He couldn't have done that if his arm was that damaged.

So we should concider that Vamp would be tossing them during the whole fight? Even if so Fox would react easilly.

During the gameplay Vamp sometimes was jumping down. He was trying to cut raiden and this attack was really slow. And he also was a peace of cake int the game.

Come on man. According to you Vamp bowed to Raiden and sank instantly. Vamp hasn't any other bullets because it would be just stupid. Such things are showed only in cutsence, never during the gameplay.
Raiden obviously defeated him in the fair fight and since Vamp is tough it's almost for sure that the fight lasted for sometime. Vamp can stay underwater for long so he'd never sink for no reason...