Originally posted by Rampant ox
There is no need to insult me. We are talking about the duel in ROTS and I am stating faults that Yoda made in ROTS. Then you randomly say something about Sids in ROTJ. Completely irrelevant and doesnt help the argument at all.
Sidious is an ugly bastard all the time, his face is also irrelevant. What im saying is that Yoda is smaller than Sids and because of this Yodas strategy should incorporate their size. Firing off a massive blast would clearly do more damage to you than your opponent.
Doesn't the ROTS script, which I'd deem a more official source than you, say something along these lines:
203 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE CHAMRER-MAIN ARENA-NIGHT
YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.
The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.
YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.
YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.
YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.
YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.
It's kind of obvious Yoda was gaining the upperhand on Sidious, and the only times Sidious seems to be "overpowering" Yoda is when he's got the terrain to his advantage, otherwise, we see Yoda blocking what Sidious throws at him, and then some.
Yoda was GAINING the upperhand on Sids. Implying that Sids was winning. The terrain advantage was part of the duel and it was a smart move for Sids to take the high ground. He may have lost without it be we dont know that for sure. The overall point I am trying to make is that It was Yoda fleeing at the end-not Sids.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
No, I still dont see how a mistake made by Sids in the OT can effect the outcome of the duel in ROTS. I agree that it was a stalemate but had they kept going Sids would have won because he is the smarter duellist. NOW the argument is over.
Actually, not quite. You just opened up a whole new can of "I don't know what the f*ck I'm saying" to yourself.
Sidious just happens to not be the smarter duelist. He lost the previous fight and nearly died from it and he couldn't defeat an opponent in his second fight. How is he the smarter duelist?
If they stalemated, how is he the smarter duelist?
If he tried to run like a coward and failed, how is he the smarter duelist?
You wouldn't know what would happen if the battle kept going. Don't make such stupid assumptions.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yoda was GAINING the upperhand on Sids. Implying that Sids was winning. The terrain advantage was part of the duel and it was a smart move for Sids to take the high ground. He may have lost without it be we dont know that for sure. The overall point I am trying to make is that It was Yoda fleeing at the end-not Sids.
Of course we do! The second Sidious had the higher ground, he was no longer doomed.
If they were on base level, it's fair to say Yoda would have knocked the living shit out of Sidious.
Yoda fled from a two hundred foot fall.
Sidious fled from being pushed into a chair . . . I mean attempted to leave, but Yoda succeed in stopping him and Sidious failed in stopping Yoda.
They stalemated. This was stated by Lucas. Whatever reason he fled for, it was probably from the mistake fall.
What I'M trying to say is Sidious beat nobody. If anything, Yoda would have put Sidious on the ground given a flat surface.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
No body would knw whats happening if the battle kept going. All im saying that in another fight I would lean towards Sids winning because he wasnt the one running away in ROTS. Can you see where I am coming from now?
I would lean towards Yoda seeing as he was dominating Sidious when they were parallel on a surface.
I would also lean towards Yoda because Sidious tried to run away after Yoda displayed how powerful he was.
Can you see where I am coming from now?
You are making to many assumptions. Yoda might have bet the shit out of Sids on flat ground but we dont know because the fight wasnt on flat ground. I get what you are saying but our argument itself has come to a stalemate. Unless we know what would happen if they continued fighting after Yoda fell we are not going to get anywhere.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
You are making to many assumptions. Yoda might have bet the shit out of Sids on flat ground but we dont know because the fight wasnt on flat ground. I get what you are saying but our argument itself has come to a stalemate. Unless we know what would happen if they continued fighting after Yoda fell we are not going to get anywhere.
Um . . . Did you read the script?
Sidious was losing until he obtained higher ground.
I virtually have more proof of him winning on flat ground than you.
By the way, I didn't assume anything. I've been handing you facts throughout this argument.
But obtaining higher ground is part of the freakin tactics of the duel!!! In a duel there are three main components. Saber skills, force skills and tactics. All of these must come into play to be able to win. If Sids didnt use the terrain to his advantage he would have lost because he wasnt using good tactics. Its like saying it was a stalemate because Sids ignited his saber. Im not doubting Yodas ability to beat Sids in a fight I just think that in a fight Sids has the upperhand.
He would have lost? He didn't win! His tactics proved inaffective because Yoda still managed to dominate him EVEN when Yoda had the lower ground.
Sidious needed the Higher Ground to just to even shit out, dude.
And trying to throw Pods at your opponent for a quick frag ain't no tactics. It's cowardice.
You fight for real or not at all.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Sids was still standing while Yoda ran away with his tail between his legs
Originally posted by PurpleSaber
Yoda didn't run away because he was a coward, or because he was scared. He left because he knew that the clone troopers were coming and because he was 200 ft. below Sids and couldn't get back up there in time. He was being logical.
Maybe. But he shouldnt have ended up that far below anyway. You have to admit that Sids outclassed him there