The Doctrine of One God

Originally posted by Punker69
"He who hath seen me hath seen the father" John 14:9

"I and my father are one" John 10:30

As for "I and my father are one".......Same meaning. In thought, words, actions, agreement.......

Jesus never called himself god, as in HE IS THEE GOD.

I could also say:
I am the daughter of man (mankind)
I am the daughter of righteousness (Doing what is right)
I am the daughter of god (I am of god)

See what I mean?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, I could also say, that "He who hath seen me hath seen the father".....It's seeing good in others....It doesn't say he's god....Only possibly the attributes.

As for "I and my father are one".......Same meaning. In thought, words, actions, agreement.......

Jesus never called himself god, as in HE IS THEE GOD.

I could also say:
I am the daughter of man (mankind)
I am the daughter of righteousness (Doing what is right)
I am the daughter of god (I am of god)

See what I mean?

Now you interpret the bible..."I and my father are one" sound very much as if he was saying that he and his father are on....and the same....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Now you interpret the bible..."I and my father are one" sound very much as if he was saying that he and his father are on....and the same....

At that time period, it was common to speak in this way, just like "I am of Jacob."..........Just because someone says "I and my father are one"...does not mean necessarily that they are one and the same person, otherwise, why would Jesus say, "Not my will, but Your's" speaking to the Father?....Why would he pray to himself? Also, why would Jesus tell the people who called him good, "Only one is good and that is the Father."???

Originally posted by debbiejo
Jesus never said in his OWN words that he was divine....

At that time period, it was common to speak in this way, just like "I am of Jacob."..........Just because someone says "I and my father are one"...does not mean necessarily that they are one and the same person, otherwise, why would Jesus say, "Not my will, buy Your's" speaking to the Father?....Why would he pray to himself? Also, why would Jesus tell the people who called him good, "Only one is good and that is the Father."???

Well obviously cause the bible is wrong and contradicts itself...isn't that obvious?

The Early Roman Catholic church didn't a very good job at editing the whole Bible for the control of the masses.....Though in early history, the church and state were all connected and much control over you whether you liked it or not. Today, we are free to explore without worry of condemnations and Inquisitions......Many people just don't feel they should explore it, because of the damnation doctrines........

Originally posted by Punker69
"He who hath seen me hath seen the father" John 14:9

"I and my father are one" John 10:30

Which is exactly what i just said.

John said that Jesus claimed he was a god, not Jesus.

I can write a book and claim that you said something you haven't - thats just me speaking on ypour behalf.

Which is what John is doing in the quotes above.

Originally posted by Punker69
Its not how I believe it to be. Its fact. Jesus said he and the father are ONE. How much more plainer does it need to get for you? Aside from that scripture he also said "He who hath seen me hath seen the Father". Which means if you've seen him (Jesus) you've seen God. No interpretation. Thats pretty cut and dry. Im even keeping it on things he said. Study OT prophecy on the coming on the messiah (God) and you'll gain a better understanding.

Also, when after Jesus' resurrection Thomas said that he would not believe Jesus had resurrected until he thrusted his hand into the lord side etc. And then Jesus appeared to Thomas and when Thomas saw he immediatley cried out "My Lord, and My God". Now Thomas was a devout Jew and a strict monotheist knowing there is only ONE God. And as a Jew he knew that the Shamah completely prohibited him from identifying anyone other than Yawah as God. Now if Jesus was not Lord and God then he a responsibility to rebuke Thomas because that would be idolatry and was prohibited under the Law of Moses. But instead of rebuking Thomas he said "because thou hast seen thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and believe".

This proves that God accepted the claims that he was God along with saying himself that he was God. So I shouldn't even have to give you scriptures where Jesus himself said it when he himself knew that what people said of him was true or else he would've rebuked them and set them straight.

No it is how you believe, it is not a fact. The Gospels were written some 60 years later, and they may be incorrect. There are other Gospels the suggest that the one's in the bible are wrong.

😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄 😄

^^ You really should use more smilies, were gonna scare Punker away like the Muslim and USHOMEFREE...........Then what would we ever do???..........We'd have to turn on each other........ 😂 🤨

The Doctrine of what?

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Early Roman Catholic church didn't a very good job at editing the whole Bible for the control of the masses.....Though in early history, the church and state were all connected and much control over you whether you liked it or not. Today, we are free to explore without worry of condemnations and Inquisitions......Many people just don't feel they should explore it, because of the damnation doctrines........

The early church took hellenistic pagan ideas, and merged it with early christian concepts.

True.......They sure did...

It's amazing so easy to find this information out, though most people will never question it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
True.......They sure did...

It's amazing so easy to find this information out, though most people will never question it.

People rarely question anything.

Hmmmm... This thread is interesting. 😎

To Punker, the threadstarter:

Be it known that I am also a Christian like you who believes that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior as proclaimed in the will of God.

He is the Son of God.
He is not the Father Himself.
He is not the One and Only True God.

Yes. The Trinity is absurdity.
Even the Oneness doctrine as well.

For me, there is only ONE TRUE GOD introduced to us by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. And that One True God is the Father ALONE.

Originally posted by Punker69
According to my Bible Jesus is God and is divine.

1. Where does it say in the Bible that our Lord Jesus Christ is God?

🙂

Originally posted by Jury
To Punker, the threadstarter:

Be it known that I am also a Christian like you who believes that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior as proclaimed in the will of God.

He is the Son of God.
He is not the Father Himself.
He is not the One and Only True God.

Yes. The Trinity is absurdity.
Even the Oneness doctrine as well.

For me, there is only ONE TRUE GOD introduced to us by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. And that One True God is the Father ALONE.

He is the father. He said. 'I and my father are ONE" and "He who hath seen me hath seen the Father".

Jesus said in Isaiah 42:8 and "my glory I will not give to another".

I want to engage with you in this discussion. In accordance to your post, I hereby ask this question:

1. Where does it say in the Bible that our Lord Jesus Christ is God?

🙂 [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Punker69
He is the father. He said. 'I and my father are ONE"

I and my Father are one."

This statement is a common one. This is similar to what a song is trying to imply:

Come, young citizens of the world."
We are one. We are one.

This statement doesn't imply, as you might agree also, that these "young citizens" are of one being. They are simply one.

Apostle Paul also used similar statement in I Corinthians 3:6-8, thus:

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters,
but God who gives the increase.
Now he who plants and he who waters are one,
and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
I Corinthians 3:6-8
New King James Version

In this statement, no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being." True, Punker?

What I am trying to say is that, in the statement: I and my Father are one", we should not conclude directly that Lord Jesus and the Father are of "one being". There's nothing in the verse that says Jesus and His Father are one God. There's no evidence to that.

The use of "being one" in that statement has its relevant meaning. Jesus uses the concept of "being one" in other places, and from them one can see that "one purpose" is what is meant.

John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children "one."
John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be "one" as He and God were "one."

It is obvious, then, that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become "one being". The meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as He and God were one in purpose.

Come, young citizens of the world."
We are one. We are one.

... We have one hope,
... We have one dream,
... And with one voice we sing.

Clear. The song is telling us that the "young citizens" are one. One what? One in being? Of course, not. They have one hope, one dream, one voice.

How about Jesus and His Father? Why did Jesus told us that He and His Father are one? One what? The answer is right the preceding verse.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
no-one can snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all;
no-one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30
New International Version

The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that He had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the "sheep," the believers, who came to Him. He said that no one could take them out of His hand and that no one could take them out of His Father’s hand. Then He said that He and the Father were "one". They are one in purpose of taking care of the flock.

🙂

"One in unity" meaning one person. Why the heck are you quoting a song? I dont care what a songwriter had to say about Unity. Thats irrelvant to the word of God. The context of the story is the Jews question whether or not Jesus was in fact GOD. The statment " I and my Father are one" is a statement in relation to the setting and those questions.

This conversation is already getting me confused because I dont know what to say to a person who's debating oneness and isn't either a Trinitarian or Oneness believer. You have to be one. To be neither and believe in the Bible is ludicrious.

Jesus said he and the Father are ONE. You can look at it in different ways all you want but at the end of the day the scripture will still remain. I and my father are ONE. ONE.

Also like I said in the verse I posted. God said he would not share his glory with another. No other will he share it with. If they where two seperate people that would be controdictary to what he said in the OT.

Also Like I said previously about Thomas. He called Jesus his LORD and his God. Not plurality in that statement. If Jesus had a good bone in his body he would've immediately rebuked Thomas for his heresy. He did not, however.

Originally posted by Punker69
"One in unity" meaning one person. Why the heck are you quoting a song? I dont care what a songwriter had to say about Unity. Thats irrelvant to the word of God. The context of the story is the Jews question whether or not Jesus was in fact GOD. The statment " I and my Father are one" is a statement in relation to the setting and those questions.

This conversation is already getting me confused because I dont know what to say to a person who's debating oneness and isn't either a Trinitarian or Oneness believer. You have to be one. To be neither and believe in the Bible is ludicrious.

Jesus said he and the Father are ONE. You can look at it in different ways all you want but at the end of the day the scripture will still remain. I and my father are ONE. ONE.

Also like I said in the verse I posted. God said he would not share his glory with another. No other will he share it with. If they where two seperate people that would be controdictary to what he said in the OT.

Also Like I said previously about Thomas. He called Jesus his LORD and his God. Not plurality in that statement. If Jesus had a good bone in his body he would've immediately rebuked Thomas for his heresy. He did not, however.

Punker, I'm showing you examples on how the statement can be used. You are drawing an irrelevant conclusion out of that statement.

As I said, Jesus' statement "I and my Father are one" doesn't make Him God Himself as how you are trying to imply. There is nothing in the verse saying that Jesus is the Father Himself. It's only your own conclusion.

Yes. Jesus and the Father are one. But not what in the way you think it is. They are not one of being God. They are not one person. The Son is always distinct from the Father. They are not one in number. They are two.

In what way then are they one? I already answered this. And the Bible itself answers this. Just read the preceding verses of John 10:30. I already quoted it in my previous post.

🙂

Let's get through with John 10:30 first before we go on to the other verses you quoted. 🙂

You're interpretations all depend on the doctrines of your church. You've all been indoctrinated!!!!.............Punker is protestant/Pentecostal (?) Not only do they believe in the Trinity, but demons are everywhere influencing us all....And that Jesus is god.....Jury has been indoctrinated in the "We are the True Church".And worshiping Jesus is heresy......

Punker you will die an old man before Jury changes his belief.....