Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Lots of lols in this posts. Thanks.BJ completely embarrassed Nick in the first round of that fight, it wasn't even remotely competitive. BJ out boxed him easily despite the huge size and reach advantage, and was able to take Nick down and get his back in seconds.
BJ outstruck him by about 10 hits in a round of high volume striking that Nick Diaz completely dictated, scored a takedown, got his back and did absolutely nothing with it, and gassed by the end of the round and proceeded to get truly embarassed in the later rounds. The first round was entirely competitive and laid the groundwork for the later rounds that saw Nick Diaz's complete domination.
You also speak of his reach advantage as if it isn't a legitimate attribute he possesses in his arsenal, and BJ Penn performs probably the most effectively in the entire history of MMA when faced with a size and weight disadvantage (at time sbeing able to fight against elite fighters multiple weight classes above him), so it doesn't exactly speak pporly of Nick Diaz that he performed in such a capacity despite the advantage.
Nick's head movement and foot work are terrible. He eats punches (and head butts jabs) while shambling forward like a flat footed zombie. If BJ was in shape he would have dominated Nick for those last two rounds just like he did the first. That is what GSP will do... only more dominantly... and for five rounds.
Nick eats those punches to taunt his opponents and lure them into a striking exchange, and because he has the chin to take it, not because he has poor head movement, of which there are many examples of him demonstrating good evasive ability despite purposefully elaving himself more open.
Likewise with his footwork his style is based around taking the fight immediately and entirely to his opponent, and has no emphasis on elusive or lateral footwork, that doesn't mean he has no footwork or poor footwork but that his style doesn't require elaborate footwork, he still has great forward and backwards motion.
If BJ were in better shape he may have been able to remain competitive for a greater proportion of the fight but even in his physical prime nothing indicates that BJ would be able to keep up with Nick's high volume striking, which nobody has truly been able to demonstrate that they can.
You also have yet to establish that Georges St Pierre is even half the striker that BJ is.
Freddie Roach said BJ was the best boxer in MMA like four or five years ago. He's changed his tune since then, most recently he said Anderson is the best boxer in MMA.
He's actually stated it far more recently, and it was only last month that he proclaimed Anderson Silva to be the best, which is hardly a huge mark against BJ in any event and his prior consideration of BJ's boxing still speaks volumes given that BJ's skills haven't shown any major deterioration and boxing as a whole hasn't seen any massive improvement in MMA in the past few years.
And if you want to take Freddie as gospel he also said that Nick was a terrible boxer
He said that he was a terrible boxer (while at the same time that he had great hands) in the sense that he lacks elaborate footwork but as already described his in-your-face style is something that Nick Diaz can uniquely pull off with his skill set and attributes.
and that GSP is better than him. I'll third that motion if you want to second it.
Where does he say this?
BJ didn't gas because of Nick's pace, Nick didn't do anything except get beat up in round one. He gassed because he is lazy and fat and doesn't train hard enough any more.
While Nick may have been slightly outstruck in round one, he was at the same time entirely dictating the pace and forcing BJ to work, so he may gotten beaten up in the sense that he got outstruck but as far as gameplans go he was winning, building a foundation that would see his complete domination in later rounds.
BJ may not have been in the best shape he's ever been in but he's looked far worse in the past and he's never gassed quite like this, and you can claim that it had nothing to do with Nick's style but the fact of the matter is that he pushed the pace of the first round into a relatively high volume striking contest and he went into overdrive in the second almost immediately, which is where BJ truly gassed.
GSP has gone to the score card in title defenses five times and never shown any sign of gassing.
While not pushing or being forced to operate at a apce anywhere near the one Nick sets in his fights. Nick's usually more active over three rounds than GSP is over all five; GSP has never gone up against someone who sets a pace quite like Diaz.
GSP is a technically striker who relies on speed, timing and his ability to judge distance, something that can't be done with one eye. Nick's had one five round fight with Noons. That's it.
Due to circumstance (fight format or him finishing fights, something Georges could try every now and then), not that he can't, and he's already more than demonstrated that he has the cardio for a GSP 5 rounder; GSP hasn't demonstrated that he would be able to keep up with Diaz for three.
It's real impressive that he can run triathlons ... but so can my 55 year old Doctor, and I doubt he has the stamina to go 5 rounds with GSP either.
Well it's a different kind of stamina, more long time endurance than short time active endurance, but Nick has demonstrated both in abundance; that he can perform at an active rate (far morw active than GSp has ever demonstrated) over 5 rounds isn't in question.
GSP has never gassed, and routinely draws fights out into 5 rounds while keeping an active pace and working.
Nowhere near the pace or workrate that Diaz brings.
If he is in the same shape when he comes back in a year, he won't gas against Diaz.
You have yet to adequately support this claim. Nick Diaz routinely works at a pace that Georges St Pierre hasn't ever proven he can keep up with.
There is nothing Diaz can do to work GSP's cardio in a way we haven't seen before...
This is laughable... George St Pierre hasn;t ever been up against someone with the work rate that Diaz possesses.
but Diaz hasn't been smothered for five rounds with a wrestler putting all their body weight on him while GNP him and passing guard routinely. If anyone gassed in that fight, it would have been Diaz.Also you know that they have an annual swim to Alcatraz every year... and like... middle age men do it. OOOOOOOOOO Nick Diaz you so crazy! 🙄
Pretending like Shields exposed GSP's striking is hilarious. GSP was putting him through a clinic before his eye got all scratched up and he had to resort to trying to land a big overhand right like he thought he was Kosh. GSP is a technically striker who relies on speed, timing and his ability to judge distance, something that can't be done with one eye. Not a great mystery.
The eye poke took place in the second round, and Georges was throwing that overhand almost immediately and barely outstruck him in the first either; a menial striker like Jake Shields. The striking was competitive before and after the blurry vision.