ufc/pride

Wtf happened last night?

Overeem got way too cocky last night. He was winning, but couldn't muster up any respect for his opponent and he paid the price. Don't fight with your hands that low. You aren't Anderson Silva.

Rashad look pissed after he lost. He should have pressed more takedowns even though Noguiera stuffed most of them. Even the best wrestlers don't always land their takedowns right away.

Edgar vs Aldo was awesome.

Fitch vs Maia.....wow. Is it alright if I start a shitstorm?

......ahem...... MW > WW. Come at me foos.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Fitch vs Maia.....wow. Is it alright if I start a shitstorm?

......ahem...... MW > WW. Come at me foos.

Counter Point: Nate Marquardtt.

Yeah I was blown away with how Maia handled Fitch, he beat him at his own game and made it look easy.

It'll be interesting to see if he can do that to the top wrestlers (Fitch imo is merely a decent wrestler, he makes up for it with persistence, great cardio, and truly amazing BJJ), i.e. GSP, Koscheck, Ellenberger etc. They keep saying that part of his success is that he's re;latively much strionbger at WW but I think he's also much more explosive and has really improved his takedowns.

Anyone think he could be a threat to GSP? Or if he deserves a title shot?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Wtf happened last night?

Overeem got way too cocky last night. He was winning, but couldn't muster up any respect for his opponent and he paid the price. Don't fight with your hands that low. You aren't Anderson Silva.

Rashad look pissed after he lost. He should have pressed more takedowns even though Noguiera stuffed most of them. Even the best wrestlers don't always land their takedowns right away.

Edgar vs Aldo was awesome.

Fitch vs Maia.....wow. Is it alright if I start a shitstorm?

......ahem...... MW > WW. Come at me foos.

Well to be fair if you took weight out of the equation I think Maia would have a much easier time at MW.

Originally posted by SebastianisI
I think everyone can agree that rounds 1 and 2 were definitely Aldo's, and that round 4 was definitely Edgar's. People seem to disagree on 3 and 5, but imo there's no doubt that Edgar took both rounds.

Nothing major happened or landed in those two rounds, you could argue that Aldo's attacks are the harder ones, but then I would counter with Frankie Edgar having a much higher tolerance for taking hits (and the fact that throughout the fight the one that slowed down the most was Aldo).

So imo you have to look at two thing:

1. the numbers, in which case Edgar outstruck him in both total and significant strikes in both rounds.

2. The judging criteria of octagon control and aggression, in which case Frankie Edgar was CLEARLY dictating the pace, acting as the aggressor, and taking the centre of the octagon for the most part.

So imo Frankie definitely won those two rounds, no question about it imo, if the judges knew how to do their job properly they would have given them to him.

That said Aldo defintiely impressed me a lot, I didn't realise he would have such success at defending the takedown, and he looked really good in the first two rounds in the striking exchanges. He had a really good fight strategy as well, go strong in the first 2 ronds but not compeltely blow his wad, slow down considerable in rounds 3-4, and save some energy for the fifth round. But through just sheer toughness, heart and conditioning, I feel Frankie took the best Aldo could give him, and did end up winning, whether you look at either the ten must scoring sytstem, or the state they were in by the end of the fight (where Jose had slowed down considerably and Frankie maintained nearly the same pace he had at the beginning of the fight).

Also I've been reading some of the threads at Sherdog and it really annoys me how people will claim that Frankie isn't dangerous and is just a point fighter etc for two reasons:

1. One, this IS a sport, and there's nothing wrong with playing the game effectively.

2. If you took one major element of the sport out of the equation, the rounds and the time limit, then Frankie Edgar would be P4P one of the most dangerous fighters in MMA, if not the most dangerous, simply for how good his chin and cardio is. If Frankie and Jose Aldo fought with no time limit (a restriction of the sport), the likelihood is that Jose Aldo would not be able to finish Edgar at any point, and would in fact tire to the point of becoming easily finishable.

Edit - Also to be fair to Joe Rogan he was very complimentary to Jose Aldo in the first couple of rounds, I just think that he noticed that Jose Aldo did start to slow over in the later rounds and the momentum was slowly shifting to Edgar.

I see what you're saying, but Edgar wasn't hurting Aldo at all with anything he landed. He did land some combos but they just didn't have any power behind them. Aldo countered with hard jabs, and you could see the effect of them on Frankie's face.

The numbers have been proven wrong many times before. From my understanding, anything other than a jab is considered a significant strike (according to the way they score things), and many of Aldo's shots were stiff jabs. There were many times when Edgar would come in to land a combo and take a hard jab right down the middle, but Joe usually didn't say anything.

The judging criteria is "effective aggression", Edgar was pushing the pace but he wound up getting countered by hard shots a lot and landed very few good shots.

If you look at the state they were in at the end of the fight, Edgar had swelling on his face and a busted nose and was bleeding. He was nearly finished by leg kicks in the second (a couple more of those and he would have probably been done).

Jose did slow down but Joe either didn't notice the shots Aldo was countering Edgar with in the later rounds, or just ignored it. He has shown bias while commentating for other fights. He is also much better are calling fights when they're more grappling heavy than striking.

Also, you have a Sherdog account? I go there a lot to talk about MMA, my user name on there is also "insomniatric", you may have seen some of my posts.

Originally posted by Insomniatric
I see what you're saying, but Edgar wasn't hurting Aldo at all with anything he landed. He did land some combos but they just didn't have any power behind them. Aldo countered with hard jabs, and you could see the effect of them on Frankie's face.

To be fair I think Frankie is just one of those guys who bruises/cuts/bleeds easily. I think aside from the leg kicks Jose's attacks were only a little more powerful, true he was landing some stiff jabs but Frankie landed a lot of kicks. And no matter how powerful your strikes are over a 5 round period the volume of strikes to start to add up, and at the very least had the impact of tiring and slowing Jose down, whereas what Jose did to Frankie had far less an impact as far as how it effected his ability to fight and perform.

The numbers have been proven wrong many times before. From my understanding, anything other than a jab is considered a significant strike (according to the way they score things), and many of Aldo's shots were stiff jabs. There were many times when Edgar would come in to land a combo and take a hard jab right down the middle, but Joe usually didn't say anything.

Hmm not sure exactly how they do it but I'm thinking the stiff jabs that jose was landing were definitely counted, if you look at the numbers they had to be I think as he didn't land much else in some rounds.

The judging criteria is "effective aggression", Edgar was pushing the pace but he wound up getting countered by hard shots a lot and landed very few good shots.

Ah I thought it was just aggression, with how effective it was being considered in the other criteria, with effective grappling, stirking, and octagon control. I think the reason it's considered is because being the aggressor can place you at a disadvantage compared to the person playing it safe, so they decide to reward the person taking the initiative. Could be wrong though.

If you look at the state they were in at the end of the fight, Edgar had swelling on his face and a busted nose and was bleeding. He was nearly finished by leg kicks in the second (a couple more of those and he would have probably been done).

Edgar looked visually worse, but he's shown that he can continue to perform and function in far worse a shape. Jose on the other hand was clearly performing a lot worse compared to how he was at the beginning of the fight, and in the past we've seen him nearly get finished by the end of the fight for the same reason. So imo Frankie was closer to finishing Aldo then the other way around, not that either were close to finishing eachother though.

You think so? Nah man as bad as they are they didn't really slow Frankie down much at all, and the more he threw the closer he was to getting taken down, part of why they were such a great weapon is because he wasn't throign it veyr often so it was harder to predict when they were coming.

They did nearly knock Frankie off balance a few times but imo if Aldo tried to swarm him he would have been in danger of getting taken down, and I think part of his success with defending the TD was always being on the move and countering Edgar's attacks for the most part.

Also people go on about Aldo's leg kicks, and as great as they are, not just for their power but how quickly he throws them, and also speaking P4p, but imo Bendo's kicks are probably more powerful, not only is he in the higher weightclass (and he's an absolutely massive LW, could probably make WW pretty easily), just compare the size of Bendo's legs to Aldo, and he landed a lot mroe of them on edgar than Aldo did, with similar impact (buckled Edgar a few times, probably worse than Aldo's did). Still didn't come close to finishing him. And the problem is that Edgar's such a great grappler that it's not really wise to try and grapple with him in those situations, and swarming him with strikes poses the same risks.

Jose did slow down but Joe either didn't notice the shots Aldo was countering Edgar with in the later rounds, or just ignored it. He has shown bias while commentating for other fights. He is also much better are calling fights when they're more grappling heavy than striking.

Also, you have a Sherdog account? I go there a lot to talk about MMA, my user name on there is also "insomniatric", you may have seen some of my posts.

Nah I actually just go there to view threads to keep up with MMA news and see the fan response to the fights and stuff, I'll probably get round to it at some point but it's such a big forum it seems like it'd be hard to have a lot of meaningful discussions and I feel a lot of my posts would probably just get lost in the mass of posters over there.

Weirdly enough now that you mention it I might have come aross your name and avy over there though lol. Do you use the same avy? I lurk there quite a lot, if you made any big threads chances are I probably came across it at some point.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Counter Point: Nate Marquardtt.

Originally posted by SebastianisI
Well to be fair if you took weight out of the equation I think Maia would have a much easier time at MW.

Well, except for Weidman. Iirc, he admitted to weighing 213 that fight.

Gives a whole new meaning to Weidman, amirite? Get it? "Wide-man?"

Originally posted by StyleTime
You weren't actually supposed to come at me. uhuh

lol

I don't know. The people who beat him don't weigh much more.

Much more then Maia or Maia's opponents at WW? What I meant is that he is relatively much stronger at WW than MW, or at least that's what Joe Rogan keeps on saying. Though it could definitely be that hes stopped trying to be a striker, and has worked on his takedowns.

But seriously, how easily he took Fitch's back was kind of mind boggling. He made Fitch look like someone who had never trained in BJJ before, as far as the positional stuff goes. Props to Fitch for being able to defend the submissions though, but to see him dominated like that was kinda surreal.

It's weird, Alistair getting beaten and KO'd like that by Big Foot is probably a much bigger deal, but I had a way bigger reaction to the Fitch and Rashad fights. And it really sucks about Rashad, there were talks about him dropping down and facing Anderson if he were to win. After seeing that I almost think he would have no chance. Anyone think he may have been injured going into the fight? I Knew Nog would have the advantage striking but I had no idea he would be able to prevent the takedowns, I mean Ryan Bader and Phil Davis had no problems taking him down and keeping him there.

BTW UFC started posting their official rankings:

http://www.ufc.ca/rankings

Glad that Frankie Edgar takes the highest ranked non-champ position on the P4P, but can't say I agree with Henderson being at 10. I wouldn't even mind having Renan Barao in there as interim champ, but I would def place Machida and JDS at least above him.

To be honest I think Henderson has gotten lucky in recent fights and also with who he's been matched up against, I think if you look at his skillset he's not no 1 contender material.

Can't wait for the rematch between Aldo and Edgar which should happen at some point, Edgar always comes back strong for the rematches.

Originally posted by SebastianisI
Much more then Maia or Maia's opponents at WW? What I meant is that he is relatively much stronger at WW than MW, or at least that's what Joe Rogan keeps on saying. Though it could definitely be that hes stopped trying to be a striker, and has worked on his takedowns.

But seriously, how easily he took Fitch's back was kind of mind boggling. He made Fitch look like someone who had never trained in BJJ before, as far as the positional stuff goes. Props to Fitch for being able to defend the submissions though, but to see him dominated like that was kinda surreal.

It's weird, Alistair getting beaten and KO'd like that by Big Foot is probably a much bigger deal, but I had a way bigger reaction to the Fitch and Rashad fights. And it really sucks about Rashad, there were talks about him dropping down and facing Anderson if he were to win. After seeing that I almost think he would have no chance. Anyone think he may have been injured going into the fight? I Knew Nog would have the advantage striking but I had no idea he would be able to prevent the takedowns, I mean Ryan Bader and Phil Davis had no problems taking him down and keeping him there.

Yeah, Fitch says he trains with JJ blackbelts on his back. I've also noticed it's just really difficult to submit top 10 fighters in general. I can't wait for Maia's rematch with Dong Hyung Kim at some point.

I feel like Rashad doesn't press the takedowns enough sometimes. His idea of "mixing it up" is similar to Bisping's. Strike and toss in a double leg every now and then. I think Rashad could win that fight, but he needs to be relentless with the wrestling. Similar to Cain.

As for Overeem, I still feel like it was arrogance that cost him that fight.

Originally posted by StyleTime
As for Overeem, I still feel like it was arrogance that cost him that fight.

No, it was getting punched in the face by a giant.

You're good people batdude, you know that?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Much more than Maia.

Yeah, Fitch says he trains with JJ blackbelts on his back. I've also noticed it's just really difficult to submit top 10 fighters in general. I can't wait for Maia's rematch with Dong Hyung Kim at some point.

Yeah I guess so, or at least I'd say top fighters who also have good BJJ game. I have the feeling there are actually a lot of great fighters out there, probably the wrestler/striker type, and usually the younger guys, that probably have massive holes in their BJJ game but it just never gets exposed. People like Jon Jones.

I feel like Rashad doesn't press the takedowns enough sometimes. His idea of "mixing it up" is similar to Bisping's. Strike and toss in a double leg every now and then. I think Rashad could win that fight, but he needs to be relentless with the wrestling. Similar to Cain.

Yeah I guess so though I thought Rashad would have learnt from the Machida fight, to not stand with a guy with very impressive striking creds. I guess he didn't think Nog was much of a threat standing.

You know, I usually like to think of the wrestler.strikers as the top fighters, but the truth is gameplanning is just as important and there truly is a massive difference between the Cains and GSPs, who can stand with great strikers, but will also take you down and keep you down at a moments notice, and be persistent with it if required, when compared to people like Benson Henderson, who is a great wrestler but will have more of a mixing up strategy (which is why I think Pettis probably beats him again in the rematch).

As for Overeem, I still feel like it was arrogance that cost him that fight.

Agreed. A lot of people are acting like Overeem was exposed or something. If anything, the first two rounds showed just how much better Overeem is than the likes of Bigfoot. If anything, what it did show, like the werdum fight, was that he's really not all that dangerous (he was dominating those rounds but did little damage), and he does have questionable chin (questionable as far as it isnt on the level where he can take shots from heavyweights, like people like Nelson, Hunt, JDS and Carwin).

Originally posted by StyleTime
You're good people batdude, you know that?

ha-som

Originally posted by StyleTime
You're good people batdude, you know that?

Somebody's mad he wasn't called good people.

batdude thinks he's people.

Originally posted by Mindset
batdude thinks he's people.

No, I'm a person.

Originally posted by batdude123
ha-som

Originally posted by batdude123
No, I'm a person.

No.

Originally posted by Mindset

No.

Like you, I don't take "no" for an answer.