Originally posted by Smasandian
People still using that excuse?What does he have to prove himself that he doesnt falter under pressure. Win 8 Superbowls?
One I think Manning is hands down the best QB in the league.
Two I think Brady is actually the one who struggles with pressure at times. Brady has never really had to deal with being consistently pressured and I because of that I am not sure he can handle it. Yes Brady is very calm and poised in the pocket and hangs in there and makes great throws, but thats cause he knows he has all day. I have seen him make more than his fair show of bad choices or bad throws in games where the defense has really gotten in his face. That game where AJ Feely (with the Dolphins) beat Brady a few years ago was only won because Brady got pressured and made terrible plays. Dont get me wrong I think Brady is the second best QB in the league and think he shows up in big time games and in the clutch, but as far as playing great under actual physical pressure from the defense I think hes got some work to do.
Post is long sorry for that, but I am interested what you guys think...
Looks like Reggie Bush is done for the year with a torn PCL. Lets look at his progression from his rookie year to now..
**RUSHING**
2006 Stats:
Played in all 16 games in which he had 155 carries for 565 yards, giving him a 3.6 average. He had 6 TD's and picked up 27 1st downs, all while only fumbling 2 times.
2007 Stats:
Played in first 12 games before going out for the year. He had 157 carries for 581 yards, giving him a 3.7 average. He had 4 TD's and picked up 32 1st downs, but managed to put the ball on the ground 7 times.
**RECEIVING**
2006 Stats:
Caught passes in all 16 games for a total of 88 catches for 742 yards, giving him a 8.4 average. He had a long of 74 yards, while taking in 2 for TD's and picking up 32 1st downs.
2007 Stats:
Caught passes in all of the 12 games before getting hurt for a total of 73 catches for 417 yards, giving him a 5.7 average. He had a long of 25 yards and took 2 in for TD's whil picking up 24 1st downs.
So in review on the ground in nearly the exact amount of carries as his rookie year he manged only one tenth of a yard more per carry, found the endzone less (without deuce around mind you) and more than tripled his fumbles (averaging just over 1 fumble per game). Meanwhile through the air his average yards per catch declined by 32% while getting close to as many opportunities.
It is also worth noting that Bus touched the ball about 4 more times a game this year on offense and he is now going to finish the year with very very similar touch totals to last year, could this possibly be a durability issue that when carrying more of the load he cant sustain himself over the full 16 games?
Final thoughts.. This is not meant as a bash Reggie post, and I am not in anyway saying Bush is a bust or no good. Just simply something I was looking at and found it interesting that over 12 games his totals (opportunity wise) were almost identical to his totals over 16 games last year and thought it could be an interesting discussion point. (anything besides talking about the Pats is nice at this point)
So the question to all of you is, are these the numbers we should expect out of Bush with only marginal improvements, or given a 3rd or 4th year will he break out into the elite player that he was in college? Does he have the durability to touch the ball even only 20 times a game for a full season (and playoffs) Could he ever be a full time running back touching the ball 25-30 times a game all year. Can he be a consistent rusher and get to the 4.5-5.0 yards per carry range for a season or is his inability to run between the tackles going to prevent that? Can he ever be a guy that a team could lean on to take over and win a game for them and touch the ball maybe 40 times in one game? Is the fumbling issues going to continue to be an issue for him? When you are putting it down at least once a game the defense will love you more than they will fear you.
Overall I think Reggie will be a great utility player in the league. He can do a lot of different things for you and provide some explosiveness, but as far as being an elite RB? He hasnt shown me anything (at the pro level) to make me believe he could ever do it. I simply do not think he can be a guy that can carry a team, a great guy to have on the team and a headache for defenses but the star of the team? I'm just not sure.
Oh and with Bush doing what he has, and Young having a sophmore slop, meanwhile Mario Williams has had a much much improved sophmore campaign (on pace for more tackles, and already has 9 sacks, 2 FF, and 1 TD) perhaps the Texans weren't as crazy as everyone thought?
To Lord Evolution, if your only comment is gonna be that I am a hater, Bush is great, Payton doesnt give him the ball enough then just skip this discussion because we have all heard it from you before. If you wanna try to not be biased and have a real discussion then please join in.
I dont think the Texans are crazy for picking Mario Williams. It's football and unlike baseketball, you dont need to always pick the "best" player in the draft, or what people consider the best player in the draft. Having an dominate defensive player is sometimes more important than an dominate offensive player.
I remember people saying Bush is the sure thing and that is that type of player who only comes every 10 years or so and will light up the league. He hasnt done that, and if I had the choice, I would go for Addai anyday over Bush.
Overall, I think that the Texans are not stupid to pick Mario Williams over Bush. I dont think Bush would of done anything with the Texans.
Also, I dont think Bush is going to be that much of superstar because it seems to me that RB's usually do the most dangerous work when they hit the league and tail off later on.
Funny story though, I was reading Page 2 from ESPN and they are going down for the 0-16 Dolphins record and naming all the other teams in the past who were in the same position and one team was the 90 Cowboys and how they sucked ass. The funny thing was that they screwed themselves over and lost the number 1 pick overall because they used that for a supplement draft and was left with the 17th overall pick. That pick was Emmitt Smith while the other player, which was the most surest thing in college football was Blair Thomas. I thought it was humerous.
I got a funny quote from Bill Simmons, who happens to be an Patriots fan.
"Steelers (+10.5) over PATRIOTS
Adam from Indy writes, "Congrats! You and the rest of New England are rooting for the '04 and '05 Colts: record-breaking offense, iffy defense and no running game. The Colts, on the other hand, have had some tough losses, a great running game, a physical defense and they're completely out of the spotlight. Sound familiar?"
(Um ... yes ... yes, it does ...) "
About Bush, let me start off by saying if he's healthy, and used right, he can be a great weapon, that said, they are saying Bush has had his knee injury since early November, so i'm not sure if its fair to judge him this year, not to mention the whole Saints team has struggled throughout the year, including there O-line, and everyone knows the running game starts at the line. Some of the faults that I've seen of Bush early this year is that he doesnt hit the line hard, he always seems to be trying to juke his way through it, even when he doesnt have to, like he's always trying to get a big play every down, that ain't going to happen in the NFL.
Originally posted by wuTa
About Bush, let me start off by saying if he's healthy, and used right, he can be a great weapon, that said, they are saying Bush has had his knee injury since early November, so i'm not sure if its fair to judge him this year, not to mention the whole Saints team has struggled throughout the year, including there O-line, and everyone knows the running game starts at the line. Some of the faults that I've seen of Bush early this year is that he doesnt hit the line hard, he always seems to be trying to juke his way through it, even when he doesnt have to, like he's always trying to get a big play every down, that ain't going to happen in the NFL.
One of my favourite memories is when Bush played his first NFL game (abit preseason) and he tried to turn back to go for the big play and DeMarcus Ware caught him from behind and tackled him and just looked at him afterwards and in my head, he probalby said, "welcome to the NFL hotshot."
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
What if Manning had been playing for three years and threw 100 TD throws, and Brady played for 1 year and threw 300?
I have no idea why your even talking in this discussion if you say this.
RJ, your somewhat wrong. Manning does have an excellent line and has for the past 5 years and also has Harrison, which I considered just as good as Moss.
I just think Manning is better. He is better thrower, the smartest QB in the league and a tad bit more atheltic than Brady.
One problem I have with Brady pundits is that they always used the excuse that Brady is better because of wins and Superbowl rings while they understood Manning had the better stats.
So now, the first year in Brady's career that he has better stats than Manning (but still hasnt beaten both TD record and % record) pundits in the Brady camp are saying he is better than Manning because of stats. Choose your ****ing decision.
I think Manning is better because when I see both play, I think Manning plays better. I've seen Manning do something that I never seen Brady do.
Originally posted by SmasandianManning is indeed better, I agree. and I am talking about THIS season, Harrison hasnt done shit THIS season.
I have no idea why your even talking in this discussion if you say this.RJ, your somewhat wrong. Manning does have an excellent line and has for the past 5 years and also has Harrison, which I considered just as good as Moss.
I just think Manning is better. He is better thrower, the smartest QB in the league and a tad bit more atheltic than Brady.
One problem I have with Brady pundits is that they always used the excuse that Brady is better because of wins and Superbowl rings while they understood Manning had the better stats.
So now, the first year in Brady's career that he has better stats than Manning (but still hasnt beaten both TD record and % record) pundits in the Brady camp are saying he is better than Manning because of stats. Choose your ****ing decision.
I think Manning is better because when I see both play, I think Manning plays better. I've seen Manning do something that I never seen Brady do.