i was under the impression that the gauntlet being creating everything was retconned. anyone know for sure? if not, i'm not at all sure how it would fit in current cosmology. 🙁
as far as the ale, like i said it has had many interpretations. starlin saw it as a living creature, capable of casually destroying entire dimensions and with power to destroy the universe. in emperor joker, darkseid alludes to the fact that joker stumbled on the equation which implies the equation may be somehow related to the 5d imps and their ability to control reality. there are others, but what's clear is that it really is open to interpretations of writers. if it granted imp-like control of the universe, as well as the full power of command or mental usurpation, 'seid would certainly be a very real threat to thanos.
about your question regarding darkseid -- in rock of ages, it was alluded that in a future timeline ds DID gain the equation and easily conquered earth and new genesis with it, but not much more was said i don't think.
it's an interesting match up. i've always found the ale fascinating, not least because kirby left it as such a mystery (sort of like dickens' "edwin drood"!) it would be cool if someone did a definitive version of it though. 🙁
{ALE beat a multiversal thread IG cant do that}
Okay Mider, what multiversal threat was this?
Secondly, how do you know IG cannot destroy more than one universe within the Marvel Multiverse. In Thanos Quest, the Infitini Gems derived from the remains of an Omnipotent being who was the embodyment of all realities. This being chose to end itself because it was lonely: Everything that ever existed or anything new it created was only a fraction of itself, therefore it had no other. It was a completely infinite being, and its end gave birth to all the realities that exist. Thanos explains this to the Runner before he took his Space Gem.
You're telling me that the power that came from this being cannot match the ALE?
i dont think thats true that he is infinite the gems are not all powerful they have controll over ONE universe if that being is so infinite then its powers would be multiversal which there not as already stated, JLA/Avengers already proved that while it may not be canon to one company it might be to the other and thus should not be thrown out as bull.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I don't buy the Universal VS Multiversal debate in this case because who says the IG can only affect one universe?
The IG was shown in the canon JLA/Avengers crossover to only be able to work in Marvel. Regardless as per forum rules that fact doesnt matter as they would be fighting in a area where both of their powers work as normal.
As for the range of the IG, the scale of its power, it is very much universal as stated on panel and as confirmed at Marvunapp, the site made up by the writers of the handbooks. The IG gives the power to manipulate the facets of an actuality, a universe, nothing more.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Read THANOS QUEST...that infinite being that Thanos was talking about was said to have been responsbile for the creation of all realities. If you're telling me that's BS, then you're telling me that Thanos was either uneducated in his description (Even though he obtained this knowledge from Mistress Death's Infiniti Well) or that he's just full of S*** which i refuse to beleive.
For a start, not once in Thanos Quest did it say that the Infinity Being was responsible for the creation of all realities. What was actually stated was that there was a time when it was the only being alive in all realities, (thus telling you that it wasnt responsible for the creation all realities) and after it chose to end its life out of loneliness its body created 616. That was the universal origin Jim Starlin put forward in the early 90's, however before this origin and since this origin was presented, the Phoenix Force was put forward as the spark that births realities. The Phoenix Force is stated to be the Big Bang which birthed 616, it is how it was reborn into reality after the M'kraan crystal destroyed the previous multiverse (as depicted in the canon X-men Adventures #12, which you can find referenced in last years Phoenix Force and Galactus bios). So basically it appears the Infinity Being origin was retconned and it reverted to the Phoenix Force. On top of that the latest Handbook says that apparently both the Power Primordial (which the Elders of the Universe use) and the Infinity Gems all draw power from the Big Bang, which we've been told is the Phoenix.
Just to further confirm current continuity, here are some scans from the latest issue of Uncanny x-men, released yesterday:
The Phoenix Force manifests as the Big Bang as stated in its bio, it is the life force of reality and as creation in Marvel is a closed system, that in turn means that any and all energy that exists in Marvel creation, derives from the Phoenix Force. The IG as stated in the Champions bio derives energy from the Big Bang, the IG is therefore in some fashion powered by the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by S.S
Who's this "first fallen" guy?
He's the opposite of Phoenix. He wants to end the creation cycle that the Phoenix perpetuates. That could mean the universe would never come to an end or possibly never be reborn. Hes only just been introduced this issue.
I take it youre a Nintendo fan? What do you think about the Wii? I cant wait to get Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy, Red Steel and Zelda. Theyre the titles im gonna buy when it launches in the U.K.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He's the opposite of Phoenix. He wants to end the creation cycle that the Phoenix perpetuates. That could mean the universe would never come to an end or possibly never be reborn. Hes only just been introduced this issue.I take it youre a Nintendo fan? What do you think about the Wii? I cant wait to get Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy, Red Steel and Zelda. Theyre the titles im gonna buy when it launches in the U.K.
Originally posted by S.S
Nintendo's the shit..........😎 have you seen the new Smash bros video?
Solid snake from MGS is in it now....... 😆
Yeah i know, i woke up early this morning to watch the E3 trailers. That was so funny. Hes gonna be able to use that cardboard box in the game lol.
Youre up early. Isnt it like 6.30 am over in the U.S?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yeah i know, i woke up early this morning to watch the E3 trailers. That was so funny. Hes gonna be able to use that cardboard box in the game lol.Youre up early. Isnt it like 6.30 am over in the U.S?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The IG was shown in the canon JLA/Avengers crossover to only be able to work in Marvel. Regardless as per forum rules that fact doesnt matter as they would be fighting in a area where both of their powers work as normal.As for the range of the IG, the scale of its power, it is very much universal as stated on panel and as confirmed at Marvunapp, the site made up by the writers of the handbooks. The IG gives the power to manipulate the facets of an actuality, a universe, nothing more.
For a start, not once in Thanos Quest did it say that the Infinity Being was responsible for the creation of all realities. What was actually stated was that there was a time when it was the only being alive in all realities, (thus telling you that it wasnt responsible for the creation all realities) and after it chose to end its life out of loneliness its body created 616. That was the universal origin Jim Starlin put forward in the early 90's, however before this origin and since this origin was presented, the Phoenix Force was put forward as the spark that births realities. The Phoenix Force is stated to be the Big Bang which birthed 616, it is how it was reborn into reality after the M'kraan crystal destroyed the previous multiverse (as depicted in the canon X-men Adventures #12, which you can find referenced in last years Phoenix Force and Galactus bios). So basically it appears the Infinity Being origin was retconned and it reverted to the Phoenix Force. On top of that the latest Handbook says that apparently both the Power Primordial (which the Elders of the Universe use) and the Infinity Gems all draw power from the Big Bang, which we've been told is the Phoenix.
😆
that's sort of what i thought . . . i just really didn't feel like digging through books to find thanos quest.
one more misconception clearled up, courtesy of your friendly neighbourhood jlakmc.
😉
Then it HAd to be a retcon situation.
In Thanos Quest Thanos stated "This being was All that was and all that was was it" "Thie being was Infitini and forever" "No one would fault you if you were to call it God, what other name would fit?"
Okay...that part gave me the impression that the power of the IG being was above anything anywhere in any universe within Marvel continuum
But...now that im re reading it...Thanos also says "From its ashes rose all that is currently REALITY, in all its many forms"..I guess Reality meaning Universe, as in singular, not plural universes.
Okay, first of all i didn't need clearance on the fact that it only worked in Marvel, I already stated that when I said it doesn't work in DC. The ALE wouldn't work in Marvel either, however.
But, I was under the impression that it could work beyond the Marvel 616 Universe. Does that mean that there are OTHER Infitini Gems in other marvel universes, or are the only 6 (or 7) gems existant in ONE Marvel universe, and if so, why just the 616 ?
So If Thanos would have moved from his universe with the IG to another alternate reality, his power would have been null and void ?
Hmm..i dont thnk so. Have you read issues of Silver Surfer that were supposed to happen during the Infitini Gauntlet? You'll find that the events in those issues totally contradict the original IG series...i figured those were alternate realities where Thanos was able to do much more than he did in the IG saga.
I figured those were other universes where Thanos extended his reach.
Do you guys remember (For those of you who did read Thanos Quest) when Thanos travelled to the Nexus of Reality. His trek brought him through "strange myriad dimensions" "Inconcievable realities" as Thanos said, all to find the In-Betweener and his soul gem, and Thanos survived every adjustment to each reality he travelled into.
The Nexus was said to have been the melding place of Chaos and Order, the falcrum of existance. Why would Thanos travel all the way here to find ONE of the Infitini Gems, if it was powerless here.
What I'm saying is from my knowledge, I beleive there is only one set of Infitini Gems in the Marvel Multiverse, and if that's the case, it's power has to be able to reach and affect all that is beyond the 616 Universe.
If its been retconned otherwise, than I guess all of this was for nothing, but if it was retconned then what a rip off. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pheonix and the Pheonix Force idea, but at one time I think the IG was meant to be the ULTAMATE weapon Marvel had, until the new writers came up with HOTU and had to downsize the IG, otherwise the HOTU wouldn't have been a big deal.
Ne ways, I need to know more about the Anti Life Equation, even though you guys stated theres not a lot known about it. I trust that it is Multiversal like you guys said but what can you do with it ? Just because its multiversal doesn't make it better necessarily....Chaos and Order were supposed to be multiveral entities since thier realm exists in the center of all realities, yet even they were easily toppled by Thanos w IG.
What can you do with ALE? Anything you want? If it's an extensice reality controling weapon, and its influence is farther than the Infiniti Gems, then I'll admit that Darksied probably will take it.
But give me some info, cuz right now im not totally convinced.
Thanks : P
If I were to read the Heart of the universe story, then yeah I would probably think Thanos boasts were tiring, but in the Infitini Gauntlet saga, he gazed into the Infitini Well which expands your mind to infinite levels, therefore your comprehension cannot be limitted while discovery within the Infitini Well.
I beleive Thanos and the IG to be victim to retcon plain and simple. I think Marvel came up with HOTU because they wanted to come up with something "cooler" and more dangerous than the IG. Therefore downsize Infitini Gauntlet, so that HOTU can actually make a difference.
Anyways, what is all known about what you can do with ALE ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then it HAd to be a retcon situation.In Thanos Quest Thanos stated "This being was All that was and all that was was it" "Thie being was Infitini and forever" "No one would fault you if you were to call it God, what other name would fit?"
Okay...that part gave me the impression that the power of the IG being was above anything anywhere in any universe within Marvel continuum
But...now that im re reading it...Thanos also says "From its ashes rose all that is currently REALITY, in all its many forms"..I guess Reality meaning Universe, as in singular, not plural universes.
Glad thats all cleared up for u LU. 😉
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay, first of all i didn't need clearance on the fact that it only worked in Marvel, I already stated that when I said it doesn't work in DC. The ALE wouldn't work in Marvel either, however.
Which is irrelevant given forum rules.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But, I was under the impression that it could work beyond the Marvel 616 Universe. Does that mean that there are OTHER Infitini Gems in other marvel universes, or are the only 6 (or 7) gems existant in ONE Marvel universe, and if so, why just the 616 ?
I never said that the Gauntlet couldnt function in any reality other than 616. That was a misinterpretation on your part.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So If Thanos would have moved from his universe with the IG to another alternate reality, his power would have been null and void ?Hmm..i dont thnk so. Have you read issues of Silver Surfer that were supposed to happen during the Infitini Gauntlet? You'll find that the events in those issues totally contradict the original IG series...i figured those were alternate realities where Thanos was able to do much more than he did in the IG saga.
I figured those were other universes where Thanos extended his reach.
Do you guys remember (For those of you who did read Thanos Quest) when Thanos travelled to the Nexus of Reality. His trek brought him through "strange myriad dimensions" "Inconcievable realities" as Thanos said, all to find the In-Betweener and his soul gem, and Thanos survived every adjustment to each reality he travelled into.
The Nexus was said to have been the melding place of Chaos and Order, the falcrum of existance. Why would Thanos travel all the way here to find ONE of the Infitini Gems, if it was powerless here.
Misinterpretation. 😉
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What I'm saying is from my knowledge, I beleive there is only one set of Infitini Gems in the Marvel Multiverse, and if that's the case, it's power has to be able to reach and affect all that is beyond the 616 Universe.
Theres no reason why the IG shouldnt be able to affect another universe within Marvel, however it couldnt do so whilst simultaneously effecting 616, the Gauntlet as stated only has universal scale power. It can give a wielder virtually total control over a single reality at a time. I think all the confusion has arisen over the claim that the IG can only affect one universe. You interpreted that as meaning it could only function in 616, whereas what could have been meant (and what is true) is that it has universal power so it cant provide mastery over more than one reality at a time
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If its been retconned otherwise, than I guess all of this was for nothing, but if it was retconned then what a rip off. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pheonix and the Pheonix Force idea, but at one time I think the IG was meant to be the ULTAMATE weapon Marvel had, until the new writers came up with HOTU and had to downsize the IG, otherwise the HOTU wouldn't have been a big deal.
Fair enough, thats your opinion. However if you think about it, given the multiversal feats of the Phoenix, (something beyond the IGs power to accomplish) even back then in the 90's it wasnt the ultimate power, despite how it was presented. Phoenix was conveniently left out of the Infinity Sagas.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ne ways, I need to know more about the Anti Life Equation, even though you guys stated theres not a lot known about it. I trust that it is Multiversal like you guys said but what can you do with it ? Just because its multiversal doesn't make it better necessarily....Chaos and Order were supposed to be multiveral entities since thier realm exists in the center of all realities, yet even they were easily toppled by Thanos w IG.
Nope. Re-read Thanos Quest and you will see it states that there realm is the nexus of this reality. It is not plural for a reason. The nexus of all realities is the M'kraan crystal. As stated on panel there is a Chaos and Order in every universe, they are not multiversal beings.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If I were to read the Heart of the universe story, then yeah I would probably think Thanos boasts were tiring, but in the Infitini Gauntlet saga, he gazed into the Infitini Well which expands your mind to infinite levels, therefore your comprehension cannot be limitted while discovery within the Infitini Well.
The Infinity Well is a tool that can be used to supply infinite knowledge, how Thanos with his finite senses and understanding interprets that knowledge is totally different.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I beleive Thanos and the IG to be victim to retcon plain and simple. I think Marvel came up with HOTU because they wanted to come up with something "cooler" and more dangerous than the IG. Therefore downsize Infitini Gauntlet, so that HOTU can actually make a difference.Anyways, what is all known about what you can do with ALE ?
Youre correct, the IG was the victim of a retcon however youre wrong in saying it was Marvel: The End that brought that about. On many occassions, in titles such as Excalibur, F4 and X-titles the Phoenix Force was reassigned responsibility for creating marvel creation, the role it was stated to have prior to the Infinity Sagas anyway.
GS, I heard someone state a while back that there's infinity gauntlet created in each universe, but I didn't recall reading that in any of the books I read that dealt with it or Thanos, can you confirm or deny this for me and if so, where/when it was stated?
If that's true, it is indeed likely that it each Gauntlet was created specifically for it's own universe.
