Originally posted by darthsith19
I bet Luke holds off Kun long enough that Sidious can launch off a Force Storm., and I doubt Kun'd be able to block it.
Yeah. Because Luke's a god of lightsaber combat (in any incarnation, really). Yep. Luke would totally be able to hold off a guy that actually beat centuries-old Jedi Masters when his boss couldn't match the skills of a green muppet on crack or Mace Windu when he was at his peak.
Luke goes down to a casual amulet beam and Palpatine gets decapitated.
That's assuming Kun can and will let out those beams like hotcakes. Luke isn't a God in lightsaber combat, but neither is Kun. But youre assuming that DE Luke is THAT much below Kun in saber combat, and that it would take mere seconds to destroy him and then Palpatine. Tell me, while Kun is fighting one guy? Stand there and do his nails? Seriously now. This is a difficult fight and Kun might win but I'd give it to the duo more times than not.
That's assuming Kun can and will let out those beams like hotcakes.
He can and does, even before learning jack shit about the Dark Side:
uke isn't a God in lightsaber combat, but neither is Kun.
What?
Yeah. Nevermind he was declared by the omniscient narrator to be a "master swordsman" even before he crafted his unique weapon and practiced his new form.
I thought you finally read the comics?
But youre assuming that DE Luke is THAT much below Kun in saber combat
He is. Or are you suddenly putting DE Luke at the lightsaber skills of Mace Windu?
and that it would take mere seconds to destroy him and then Palpatine.
See above scans, and below scans:
I'm confused how a master swordsman makes him a lightsaber God? Mace Windu was also a Master Swordsman, is he a lightsaber God?
Mace Windu just happens to be one of the best wielders of the weapon that we've seen depicted in canon. I think he's certainly up there.
I like how you ignored how Kun got even better after that. Where do you get your blinders, anyway?
And where exactly does Kun unleash his beams at his will besides the one and only time in the Massassi temple?
Red herring, logical fallacy.
Insinuating that he can't do it again would require you to have a premise upon which to base it.
The evidence runs counter to your insinuation - by the time of the Sith War, Kun's gained an immense amount of knowledge and power, even going so far as to create another amulet for his right hand.
Calm down IKC, your repeated use of your blinders joke doesn't change facts. However if you do consider Mace a lightsaber God, I love how you quantify Kun's power by saying "he's even better than that". I didn't know you knew something none of us knew.. Oh wait.. And nobody insinuated that he couldn't do it again, so you can save your logical fallacy lessons for somebody else, because I can assure you saying that he can do it anytime he wants, which you DID say, is quite ridiculous.. Oh yea, and the creation of another amulet.. That's a nice theory but I have a better one. Remember Ulic's amulet? Notice how you don't see it anymore once he becomes the Apprentice? Notice how you see Kun with an extra amulet? Yea that seems a little more logical and certainly dispells the notion that Exar Kun is a God..
Calm down IKC, your repeated use of your blinders joke doesn't change facts. However if you do consider Mace a lightsaber God, I love how you quantify Kun's power by saying "he's even better than that". I didn't know you knew something none of us knew.. Oh wait..
If I'm making a joke (repeatedly? This is the first time I've used it in this thread and I've not been posting much recently) then explain to me why I need to "calm down."
And, reading comprehension much? I said Kun got even better after he was declared a "master swordsman."
Read more carefully next time.
And nobody insinuated that he couldn't do it again, so you can save your logical fallacy lessons for somebody else, because I can assure you saying that he can do it anytime he wants, which you DID say, is quite ridiculous..
Appeal to ridicule is a logical fallacy. I've proved up, you have nothing but insinuation.
Oh yea, and the creation of another amulet.. That's a nice theory but I have a better one. Remember Ulic's amulet? Notice how you don't see it anymore once he becomes the Apprentice? Notice how you see Kun with an extra amulet? Yea that seems a little more logical and certainly dispells the notion that Exar Kun is a God..
Except then you read the comics and see that Ulic's was a literal amulet that hung around his neck and looked nothing like Kun's, whereas the one that Kun built went on his right hand like a gauntlet, exactly as Sadow's went on his left.
So what are you, Lightsnake, thinking that these Sith Lords just find uber amulets sitting on the ground?
Source material > tdtd, once again.
1. You've overused your blinders joke, or insult.
2. Prove that Kun built an amulet
3. Prove Kun can use his blast anytime he wants.
Conclusion: I'm not contradicting the material, you are with your unfounded assumptions. I believe that's also an appeal to ridicule. Unless of course there's a difference between saying he can't use it again(which I didn't), and saying he can use it anytime he wants(which you did).And your comparison of lightsnake to me sounds like a personal attack, yet another logical fallacy.. I can point them out just as well as you can. So answer those 2 questions with proof, thanks.
Conclusion: I'm not contradicting the material,
You're right you aren't contradicting the material, you just aren't providing much reason as to why you made the claim of "that's assuming Kun can and will".
Which is why you should usually provide evidence as to why he might not be able too from the start of the claim. Sometimes it's acceptable, however, in a "close match-up" it's not.
The only thing I know you provided, which wasn't exactly proof or reason to base a theory off of, was about him using the amulet blasts only once.
you are with your unfounded assumptions.
I'm assuming IKC is logical deducting from:
- Kun using his amulet blasts before he learned jack shit about them, and the Darkside.
- He's gotten much more powerful since then, and now has a better grasp over the Darkside, and Ancient Sith teachings.
Hell, after he kills Odan-Urr, the omniscent narrator states "Odan-Urr has gone to the Force, leaving the darkest power in the galaxy to walk away with something that will make him even stronger".
As well, he uses a blast on Aleema. It was only an incapacitating blast, but a blast nonetheless. Not to mention, where did the opportunity arise for Kun to use his amulets? Vodo? No reason. Odan-Urr? No reason.
The only time where it would've been useful was againt all the Jedi in the galaxy, literally "thousands upon thousands", and I highly doubt that no matter how many amulet blasts Kun used, that it wouldn't have stopped them.
I believe that's also an appeal to ridicule.
No, it's not. He hasn't set your argument up to the point of where it seems absurd. IKC was initially debating the point that you said "assuming he can and will". IKC has provided proof he, in-fact, can and will use them.
Unless of course there's a difference between saying he can't use it again(which I didn't), and saying he can use it anytime he wants(which you did).
Except logical deducting, there is proof he can use it again.
And your comparison of lightsnake to me sounds like a personal attack, yet another logical fallacy..
It would be a personal attack if he said you were wrong just based on the fact Lightsnake may argue something like that, however he provided the proof as to why you were wrong.
Td's not me, IKC...there is something I'd like to counter-this isn't a truly, 100 percent literal argument though, more hypothetical...if I say something of DE calling Luke the greatest power of light and some say 'how many other powers of light were there'...couldn't the same be applied to Kun and the other powers of darkness?
While I agree the Sith defintiely created their tools, my speculation is on which Sith made them...if the Lords themselves did it or if there was a special group of alchemists and forgemasters who had the job.
In some fairness, though Kun was a master, it's difficult to simply dismiss others in comparison to him, especially Mace who was described as one of the finest fighters the order had ever produced...and by DE, I doubt Mace could take Luke, given his expressions of skill and ability
Td's not me, IKC...there is something I'd like to counter-this isn't a truly, 100 percent literal argument though, more hypothetical...if I say something of DE calling Luke the greatest power of light and some say 'how many other powers of light were there'...couldn't the same be applied to Kun and the other powers of darkness?
The difference is that you're using that hyperbole ridden line as a keystone in your argument instead of using any logical deduction.
Deduce your answers from what's given, not flash the line likt it's the only that matters.
While I agree the Sith defintiely created their tools, my speculation is on which Sith made them...if the Lords themselves did it or if there was a special group of alchemists and forgemasters who had the job.
So how is this viable in a debate? Did you see forgemasters? Did you see any implication that they didn't make their own tools?
So somehow you can use this as a detractor.
In some fairness, though Kun was a master, it's difficult to simply dismiss others in comparison to him, especially Mace who was described as one of the finest fighters the order had ever produced...and by DE, I doubt Mace could take Luke, given his expressions of skill and ability
I don't doubt it. If I wanted to compare hyperbole to hyperbole, I'd see Clone Wars vs. DE, and there I can see Mace doing feats that would likely keep him right up there.
I think it was Razielim. And the blast Kun used on Aleeema, according to IKC, was a different type of blast. There is no evidence to think that Kun could use it anytime he'd like. In fact that's absurd, because if that was the case then he wouldn't need a lightsaber, and could just go around randomly killing anyone in his path. I'm going to look at the DE comic now because I do believe that line was said, in which case the line about Kun being the darkest force in the galaxy is as insignificant as the line about Luke.
Not to mention I highly doubt that all the Jedi were there. Just because Kun says all the Jedi? How does he know all the Jedi were there? You're telling me every single Jedi is there? Sounds like an exaggeration
In fact that's absurd, because if that was the case then he wouldn't need a lightsaber, and could just go around randomly killing anyone in his path.
Same can be said for:
-Luke.
-Sidious.
-Dooku.
-Traya.
-Just about every powerful Force user.
Why didn't the Emporer use all of his "all known, previously unknown, and forgotten" (or whatever) techniques 24/7? Why choose to face Luke in lightsaber combat? Why doesn't Dooku use Force lightning in every instance? Why didn't Sadow blow up stars at every point?
The point is, he doesn't need to, nor did the situation ever arise for him to use again.
I'm going to look at the DE comic now because I do believe that line was said, in which case the line about Kun being the darkest force in the galaxy is as insignificant as the line about Luke.
The reason I posted that line was to prove Kun had a grasp over the Darkside, and had even became more powerful than when he initially used the amulet. It was more of a "backing up the fact"-esque deal.
Not to mention I highly doubt that all the Jedi were there. Just because Kun says all the Jedi? How does he know all the Jedi were there? You're telling me every single Jedi is there? Sounds like an exaggeration
"Combined force of Jedi Knights", "thousands upon thousands", "all the Jedi". Said by omniscent narrator, and Kun.
Kun would know because he looks up.
I see Kun saying all of the Jedi, but it's a little hard to believe that all of the Jedi in the galaxy were gathered. They could have at least be more specific to avoid thoughts of exaggeration. And since when does Dooku, Sidious, or any Luke before NJO have the grasp of the force that Kun possesses, let alone the amulet that can supposedly destroy anything in it's path. My point is saying that saying Kun cause that amulet whenever he pleases is AS ridiculous as saying Kun can use it once.
