Originally posted by Grimm22
Or maybe its just you overrating him 😆
he has many years of experience doing so.
he has also lead the x-men in which he gave up the power becuase he did not wish to elad any more.
it is not that wolverin eis not a amazing leader it is that he chioces not to lead.
also alpha flight wanted wolverine to come back and lead there team becuase of his leader ship skills.
Originally posted by capt it upwolverine is a good second class leader, but nobody leads the cap....and cap KO's spidey and DD with one punch each.
nope it not that at all. wolverine has repeatedly been asked to elad teams over the years. scot has ask wolverine many times over the years to lead one of the teams.
also wolverien over the years had lead special ops team, army squadrens ect.he has many years of experience doing so.
he has also lead the x-men in which he gave up the power becuase he did not wish to elad any more.it is not that wolverin eis not a amazing leader it is that he chioces not to lead.
also alpha flight wanted wolverine to come back and lead there team becuase of his leader ship skills.
Leadership skills don't stop a punch in the face. Army training and ninja skills are flacid in the face of super-human agility. A few good shots from Spidey and Cap should be out. Wolverine would last longer, but the end result would be the same.
Depending on the writer, and whose comic it is, all of these guys have held their own and/or beaten the others at some point. Spider-Man, while easily the best in this fight, is not exempt from this rule and has taken his share of losses from all sorts of opponents (occasionally street level-ish). But we're looking at what should happen in a no-PIS environment. And in that environment, Spidey/DD win every time.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Leadership skills don't stop a punch in the face. Army training and ninja skills are flacid in the face of super-human agility. A few good shots from Spidey and Cap should be out. Wolverine would last longer, but the end result would be the same.Depending on the writer, and whose comic it is, all of these guys have held their own and/or beaten the others at some point. Spider-Man, while easily the best in this fight, is not exempt from this rule and has taken his share of losses from all sorts of opponents (occasionally street level-ish). But we're looking at what should happen in a no-PIS environment. And in that environment, Spidey/DD win every time.
Originally posted by DigiMark007dude....cap tangles with class100 guys just like wolverine, and ummm, cap isnt as easy to hit as your trying to make it seem.
Leadership skills don't stop a punch in the face. Army training and ninja skills are flacid in the face of super-human agility. A few good shots from Spidey and Cap should be out. Wolverine would last longer, but the end result would be the same.Depending on the writer, and whose comic it is, all of these guys have held their own and/or beaten the others at some point. Spider-Man, while easily the best in this fight, is not exempt from this rule and has taken his share of losses from all sorts of opponents (occasionally street level-ish). But we're looking at what should happen in a no-PIS environment. And in that environment, Spidey/DD win every time.
Originally posted by capt it up
not true at all sicne wolverine is also listed as superhuman agility and reflexes. in a non PIS enviorment in my oppion logan would take it more tiems then spiderman.
spiderman can take down wolverine but it would tkae many many hits while wolvdrind only needs realy on hit to win.
I'm not talking about "listed" abilities though. I'm talking about how fast they are in the comics....for real. And anyone can see that Spidey doesn't really get hit unless he wants to, or if there's some extenuating circumstance (i.e. "Had to save that girl...couldn't dodge the blow in time" or "Oh no, he's attacking while I'm in mid-air and my spider-sense just warned me he was there...can't twist out of the way in time"😉. Or if they have some sort of spread fire (Logan doesn't).
I'd use Secret Wars as a wonderful example on neutral turf (meaning, it's not either of their "home" comics). He's making fun of Logan's attempts to hit him while he swats him away like a fly and simultaneously dodges about 5 other X-Men.
Yeah...that's the Spidey I'm talking about. And a class 15 punch will mess Logan up. Yeah, he heals. But not instantaneously, and a few of those and he'd be pretty messed up. And I feel very safe saying Peter would get at least a few dozen hits in before Logan ever grazed Parker's skin.
Let's not mention webbing-from-a-distance. He can cut through some of it with his claws, but after a while it would just be caked on his body, thus slowing him down. Eventually, after a few punches and lots of webs, he could web Logan's arms and legs to a wall (or the ground) and suffocate him by webbing his mouth shut. And this could all be done without ever coming within 10 feet of him.
....
I realize you're a big Wolverine fan capt, and I don't think you're unreasonable in defending him. To the contrary, a lot of times you know your stuff and people just write it off as fanboy-ism. I know it isn't that, but Logan's simply outclassed here.
I also respect Cap and Wolverine, and think they're sweet for a number of reasons. And Cap's fighting skills and shield make him a hard guy to take out by anyone. But that will just make it a decent fight...it won't really change the outcome.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm not talking about "listed" abilities though. I'm talking about how fast they are in the comics....for real. And anyone can see that Spidey doesn't really get hit unless he wants to, or if there's some extenuating circumstance (i.e. "Had to save that girl...couldn't dodge the blow in time" or "Oh no, he's attacking while I'm in mid-air and my spider-sense just warned me he was there...can't twist out of the way in time"😉. Or if they have some sort of spread fire (Logan doesn't).I'd use Secret Wars as a wonderful example on neutral turf (meaning, it's not either of their "home" comics). He's making fun of Logan's attempts to hit him while he swats him away like a fly and simultaneously dodges about 5 other X-Men.
Yeah...that's the Spidey I'm talking about. And a class 15 punch will mess Logan up. Yeah, he heals. But not instantaneously, and a few of those and he'd be pretty messed up. And I feel very safe saying Peter would get at least a few dozen hits in before Logan ever grazed Parker's skin.
Let's not mention webbing-from-a-distance. He can cut through some of it with his claws, but after a while it would just be caked on his body, thus slowing him down. Eventually, after a few punches and lots of webs, he could web Logan's arms and legs to a wall (or the ground) and suffocate him by webbing his mouth shut. And this could all be done without ever coming within 10 feet of him.
....
I realize you're a big Wolverine fan capt, and I don't think you're unreasonable in defending him. To the contrary, a lot of times you know your stuff and people just write it off as fanboy-ism. I know it isn't that, but Logan's simply outclassed here.
I also respect Cap and Wolverine, and think they're sweet for a number of reasons. And Cap's fighting skills and shield make him a hard guy to take out by anyone. But that will just make it a decent fight...it won't really change the outcome.
😄 What he said ^ ✅ 👆 ........Spidey and DD win, but it would be one hell of a fight!!!!!!!
Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, this is clear underestimation of Spidey.You guys realize that there was a popular Spider-Man vs. Cap/DD/Wolverine (at the same time) thread, and while the majority went with the team, it was about 60/40.
Spidey's not street level...he can lift more than these three guys combined (by a lot), and is much faster than any of them. Knocks Wolverine down, webs him to the ground...webs in mouth = suffocation. Cap realizes he's overwhelmed and lasts about a minute.
That's it. Logan might last a while against them due to his healing. But DD/Spidey take this 9/10...I'd say 10, but if you get a PIS-happy writer, you never know.
To tell you the honest truth, Digi, I agree 100% with you. But sometimes I feel the need to answer in a way that won't make Wolverine fanboys foam at the mouth. But yea, Spidey alone really can take this.
Ah, I remember that Spider-Man vs. Cap/DD/Wolverine thread well. Good times.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm not talking about "listed" abilities though. I'm talking about how fast they are in the comics....for real. And anyone can see that Spidey doesn't really get hit unless he wants to, or if there's some extenuating circumstance (i.e. "Had to save that girl...couldn't dodge the blow in time" or "Oh no, he's attacking while I'm in mid-air and my spider-sense just warned me he was there...can't twist out of the way in time"😉. Or if they have some sort of spread fire (Logan doesn't).I'd use Secret Wars as a wonderful example on neutral turf (meaning, it's not either of their "home" comics). He's making fun of Logan's attempts to hit him while he swats him away like a fly and simultaneously dodges about 5 other X-Men.
Yeah...that's the Spidey I'm talking about. And a class 15 punch will mess Logan up. Yeah, he heals. But not instantaneously, and a few of those and he'd be pretty messed up. And I feel very safe saying Peter would get at least a few dozen hits in before Logan ever grazed Parker's skin.
Let's not mention webbing-from-a-distance. He can cut through some of it with his claws, but after a while it would just be caked on his body, thus slowing him down. Eventually, after a few punches and lots of webs, he could web Logan's arms and legs to a wall (or the ground) and suffocate him by webbing his mouth shut. And this could all be done without ever coming within 10 feet of him.
....
I realize you're a big Wolverine fan capt, and I don't think you're unreasonable in defending him. To the contrary, a lot of times you know your stuff and people just write it off as fanboy-ism. I know it isn't that, but Logan's simply outclassed here.
I also respect Cap and Wolverine, and think they're sweet for a number of reasons. And Cap's fighting skills and shield make him a hard guy to take out by anyone. But that will just make it a decent fight...it won't really change the outcome.
Great post, by the way.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm not talking about "listed" abilities though. I'm talking about how fast they are in the comics....for real. And anyone can see that Spidey doesn't really get hit unless he wants to, or if there's some extenuating circumstance (i.e. "Had to save that girl...couldn't dodge the blow in time" or "Oh no, he's attacking while I'm in mid-air and my spider-sense just warned me he was there...can't twist out of the way in time"😉. Or if they have some sort of spread fire (Logan doesn't).
Originally posted by DigiMark007Neutral?
I'd use Secret Wars as a wonderful example on neutral turf (meaning, it's not either of their "home" comics). He's making fun of Logan's attempts to hit him while he swats him away like a fly and simultaneously dodges about 5 other X-Men.
the funny thing is the times the have gotten into it since with the execption of that punisher nonsense all took place in spiderman titles or by spiderman writers at the time.. interesting is it not?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yeah...that's the Spidey I'm talking about. And a class 15 punch will mess Logan up.
Originally posted by DigiMark007close enough.. remember how his jellied organs healed before hulk's next punch? guess not..
Yeah, he heals. But not instantaneously,
Originally posted by DigiMark007
and a few of those and he'd be pretty messed up. And I feel very safe saying Peter would get at least a few dozen hits in before Logan ever grazed Parker's skin.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Let's not mention webbing-from-a-distance. He can cut through some of it with his claws, but after a while it would just be caked on his body, thus slowing him down.
after a while? and what's happening in this scenario? is wolverine just letting spiderman cake the webbing on while he stands there helpless?
I seem to recall wolverine putting pressure on spiderman every time the guy tries to use webbing in a fight.. sure wolverine may not be able to cut through webbing indefinitely but spiderman doesn't have an indefinite amount of time to web him either..
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Eventually, after a few punches and lots of webs, he could web Logan's arms and legs to a wall (or the ground) and suffocate him by webbing his mouth shut. And this could all be done without ever coming within 10 feet of him.
he can punch him without being within 10 feet of logan? 🤨
wow spiderman must have got some CARAZAY upgrades with that new iron spidey suit.. 😕
Originally posted by jinzinnice....now tell them how cap is gonna whoop em good too!
like when captain america wholloped him? 😕
if he's twisting in the air and can't overcompensate while he's fighting or gets tricked by his opponent into getting hit he's still getting hit.. 🤨
there's no point in trying to pass that off as otherwise... I'm not saying that the excuses you mentioned don't happen a lot but you're making it sound like spiderman is untouchable unless something else prohibits his movement or something.. that's clearly not the case.Neutral?
I won't neglect that it happened but there was more pro spidey PIS in there than in ANY of their fights since then.. me and creshosck have gone over these points many times but I can hit them up again if you missed out...the funny thing is the times the have gotten into it since with the execption of that punisher nonsense all took place in spiderman titles or by spiderman writers at the time.. interesting is it not?
no it won't.. hell class 100 punches aren't guaranteed to "mess logan up"... yet that's going to change for spiderman? I don't think so...
close enough.. remember how his jellied organs healed before hulk's next punch? guess not..
oh well
also good thing spiderman doesn't land punches instantaniously either..I wouln't, considering the fact that the only time parkers been able to consistantly avoid logan striking back at him was in a fight where logan LET spiderman hit him... the fact is spiderman isn't going to be getting any number of punches in on logan without getting diced... to land a dozen unanswered blows he'd have to do what he did in their graveyard fight and use hit and run tactics. otherwise he gets scewered real quick...
after a while? and what's happening in this scenario? is wolverine just letting spiderman cake the webbing on while he stands there helpless?
I seem to recall wolverine putting pressure on spiderman every time the guy tries to use webbing in a fight.. sure wolverine may not be able to cut through webbing indefinitely but spiderman doesn't have an indefinite amount of time to web him either..
he can punch him without being within 10 feet of logan? 🤨
wow spiderman must have got some CARAZAY upgrades with that new iron spidey suit.. 😕
i said it before I'll say it again...
captain america will KICK YOUR ****ING ASS! 😠
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Nice post up there jin. It was easier when I was just debating capt and Kam. 😉
Anyway, the whole 10-feet thing was just for the webbing, not the punches. But it'll make Logan easier to punch. The entire webbing tactic is Spidey's biggest trump card, and if he just did that for a while, it would make Logan too slow to do much. And no, he doesn't have unlimited webbing, but he has enough to mess up Wolverine. He's webbed up an entire side of a skyscraper, encased the Blob (yes the Blob) in a ball of webbing....both easily beyond a feat of webbing up Logan.
And speaking of that fight, Parker could have easily let Blob suffocate (and he mentions it) but sticks a rolled-up newspaper in his mouth so he can breath through it. If we're talking max potential and bloodlust and whatnot, a similar tactic is not out of the question for Logan.
And apparently we have different opinions of Spidey's abilities. I've seen so many instances of him dodging way more stuff than Logan would present in a fight that I'm convinced if you stuck Peter in a fight and said "Don't get hit" he wouldn't unless the opponent was beyond Logan's speed.
I realize this is death to bring up, but the end of the Firelord fight is a great example. The fight was filled with PIS, and I'm not arguing for Spidey being that great, but the end when they're just locked in hand-to-hand and FL can't touch him is one of the few parts that doesn't contain massive PIS.
So yeah, dozens of hits. For a guy that laughs at multiple machine gun fire and all sorts of energy projection (Electro comes to mind as a good example) this isn't out of the question.
Originally posted by capt it up
nope it not that at all. wolverine has repeatedly been asked to elad teams over the years. scot has ask wolverine many times over the years to lead one of the teams.
also wolverien over the years had lead special ops team, army squadrens ect.he has many years of experience doing so.
he has also lead the x-men in which he gave up the power becuase he did not wish to elad any more.it is not that wolverin eis not a amazing leader it is that he chioces not to lead.
also alpha flight wanted wolverine to come back and lead there team becuase of his leader ship skills.
The only thing is that Wolverine's main priority is attack first ask questions later.
I mean I just cant see him as a leader with that kind of tactic. That and the fact that he prefers to work alone.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Good post. I said stuff like this earlier, but people try to make it seem like webbing'd never work.There's really no logical reason why someone slower than Spidey should be able to hit him unless he's distracted. Spidey's dumbed down alot for story purposes.
Nice post up there jin. It was easier when I was just debating capt and Kam. 😉Anyway, the whole 10-feet thing was just for the webbing, not the punches. But it'll make Logan easier to punch. The entire webbing tactic is Spidey's biggest trump card, and if he just did that for a while, it would make Logan too slow to do much. And no, he doesn't have unlimited webbing, but he has enough to mess up Wolverine. He's webbed up an entire side of a skyscraper, encased the Blob (yes the Blob) in a ball of webbing....both easily beyond a feat of webbing up Logan.
And speaking of that fight, Parker could have easily let Blob suffocate (and he mentions it) but sticks a rolled-up newspaper in his mouth so he can breath through it. If we're talking max potential and bloodlust and whatnot, a similar tactic is not out of the question for Logan.
And apparently we have different opinions of Spidey's abilities. I've seen so many instances of him dodging way more stuff than Logan would present in a fight that I'm convinced if you stuck Peter in a fight and said "Don't get hit" he wouldn't unless the opponent was beyond Logan's speed.
I realize this is death to bring up, but the end of the Firelord fight is a great example. The fight was filled with PIS, and I'm not arguing for Spidey being that great, but the end when they're just locked in hand-to-hand and FL can't touch him is one of the few parts that doesn't contain massive PIS.
So yeah, dozens of hits. For a guy that laughs at multiple machine gun fire and all sorts of energy projection (Electro comes to mind as a good example) this isn't out of the question.
DD is a top class fighter with a toned down early warning system. He can hang (nonPIS) w/anybody here but Spidey. He knows how to hit where it hurts. Anybody got scans of Cap VS DD fights?
Originally posted by DigiMark007shaddup dork
Nice post up there jin. It was easier when I was just debating capt and Kam. 😉Anyway, the whole 10-feet thing was just for the webbing, not the punches. But it'll make Logan easier to punch. The entire webbing tactic is Spidey's biggest trump card, and if he just did that for a while, it would make Logan too slow to do much. And no, he doesn't have unlimited webbing, but he has enough to mess up Wolverine. He's webbed up an entire side of a skyscraper, encased the Blob (yes the Blob) in a ball of webbing....both easily beyond a feat of webbing up Logan.
And speaking of that fight, Parker could have easily let Blob suffocate (and he mentions it) but sticks a rolled-up newspaper in his mouth so he can breath through it. If we're talking max potential and bloodlust and whatnot, a similar tactic is not out of the question for Logan.
And apparently we have different opinions of Spidey's abilities. I've seen so many instances of him dodging way more stuff than Logan would present in a fight that I'm convinced if you stuck Peter in a fight and said "Don't get hit" he wouldn't unless the opponent was beyond Logan's speed.
I realize this is death to bring up, but the end of the Firelord fight is a great example. The fight was filled with PIS, and I'm not arguing for Spidey being that great, but the end when they're just locked in hand-to-hand and FL can't touch him is one of the few parts that doesn't contain massive PIS.
So yeah, dozens of hits. For a guy that laughs at multiple machine gun fire and all sorts of energy projection (Electro comes to mind as a good example) this isn't out of the question.
