Originally posted by brainchild81
I'd like for somebody to explain why Wolvie supporters complain so much about the Secret Wars PIS when there was absolutely no PIS when it came down to Spidey & Wolvie. They focus on everything else and try to throw out what happend to Wolvie as PIS.
it's just a generalization of rationality for the writer who did that...
it's like this...
if spiderman was able to use what we refer to as PIS to overcome opponents 1-6 (being the rest of the x men) all whom should have given spiderman fits or just completely destroyed him (i.e. proffesor x, there's no logical reason spiderman could have gotten the jump on x unless he's somehow able to turn his brain "off", an ability which I've never seen him display) etc etc....
then there's little reason to assume that the obvious bias which allowed spiderman to jet through subjects 1-6 would suddenly be less bias by the time he got to subject 7 (wolverine)...
it has more to do with the credibility of the writer and the bias that writer had, or the bias that the story needed to have, a credibility which was lost as soon as spiderman got past subjects 1-6.
Also, you know I refrain from arguments revolved around PIS due to their entirely subjective nature, but at the same time whenever wolverine DOES display good feats against spiderman they are generally discarded as PIS by spidey supporters and secret wars is then presented by said supporters as a standard but said supporters don't generally acknowledge the PIS that DID infact take place or the rationality which I've just explained...
all in all, all this really does is demonstrate how utterly futile arguments that rely on PIS really are because what one person likes another may not, which is why we have to take the illogic in comics at face value... I've said it 100 times but IMO:
When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.
as far as my take on the whole secret wars scenario: I would just like to address a few things, wolverine said he didn't wish to hurt spiderman, IF he WAS actually aiming for spiderman with that shot (you already know this brainchild) he was probably aiming for a shot at the obliques... this is obviously going to result in a miss when dealing with spiderman. This was also wolverine's first head to head encounter with the wallcrawler, there's no way of telling how much wolverine was holding back, not fully knowing what he was dealing with. Finally all spiderman succeeded in doing was dodging one blow (which I would expect him to do) and bat logan away, not many people remember that wolverine was right back up two panels later like nothing happened.. I find that this was less of a fight persay and more of a situation in which the x-men were trying to CONTAIN spidey not really hurt the guy, but do to all of spiderman's assets, good luck containing the fellow, hell the FF couldn't even do that.