Originally posted by vitaldragon
this is toughSpidey can take Cap.
But I don't know if DD can take WolverineSurely it would be a good match
I think Cap stands a fighting chance vs Spidey. Spidey certainly wouldn't win 10/10. He may get between 5 & 7/10. Wolverine sreds DD,(LOL) and Cap and Wolverine would be a tough match for Spidey, though he could possibly pull it off(I personally think Spidey would be too much for wolverine; one punch to the gut makes him puke his organs up).
Originally posted by Jade Lightningand i am a legend, but for being myself, and saying what i want....
Good posts, Kam; I thought you were supposed to be a legend around here... all the posts I've seen from you yet are pointing to the contrary: let me guess what your response to this is... "shuddup?"
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nice post up there jin. It was easier when I was just debating capt and Kam. 😉
sorry man, Ihad no interest in debating this fight as I though dd and spidey could take it, but... you awoke the beast..
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Anyway, the whole 10-feet thing was just for the webbing, not the punches. But it'll make Logan easier to punch. The entire webbing tactic is Spidey's biggest trump card, and if he just did that for a while, it would make Logan too slow to do much.
hopefully.... again taskmaster with ONE sword was able to cut through spideys webbing and totally and completely negate it's battlefield effectiveness.. a faster, more endurable wolverine with two arms to cut with and six blades would easily be able to reporduce the same feat...
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And no, he doesn't have unlimited webbing, but he has enough to mess up Wolverine. .
you missed the point.. I wasn't getting at the fact that he doesn't have an unlimitede amount of webbing.. what I'm getting at is the fact that spiderman wouldn't have an indefinite time to use all his webbing... In the graveyard fight he knew that if he had given wolverine even a second he was going to be killed.. so webbing wasn't much of an option as it would take time and probably wouldn't do much to stop logan's momentum in the first place.. your scenario gives spiderman the benefit of the doubt that he'll have that time.. I think that's a bit bias..
Originally posted by DigiMark007maybe...
He's webbed up an entire side of a skyscraper, encased the Blob (yes the Blob) in a ball of webbing....both easily beyond a feat of webbing up Logan.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And speaking of that fight, Parker could have easily let Blob suffocate (and he mentions it) but sticks a rolled-up newspaper in his mouth so he can breath through it. If we're talking max potential and bloodlust and whatnot, a similar tactic is not out of the question for Logan.
Originally posted by DigiMark007I agree.. if spiderman's main focus and only focus is to dodge I don't think logan could hit him until spidey began to fatigue.. but in order to attack spiderman would leave himself open to a counter.. just like real fighting.. there in lies the problem.
And apparently we have different opinions of Spidey's abilities. I've seen so many instances of him dodging way more stuff than Logan would present in a fight that I'm convinced if you stuck Peter in a fight and said "Don't get hit" he wouldn't unless the opponent was beyond Logan's speed.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I realize this is death to bring up, but the end of the Firelord fight is a great example. The fight was filled with PIS, and I'm not arguing for Spidey being that great, but the end when they're just locked in hand-to-hand and FL can't touch him is one of the few parts that doesn't contain massive PIS.
Originally posted by DigiMark007dozens of unanswered hits kinda is... and again.. don't know if you saw mk spidey 3 but spiderman wasn't dodging much of what electro was dishing out.. I'm not so sure I'd be using that as an example.. 😕
So yeah, dozens of hits. For a guy that laughs at multiple machine gun fire and all sorts of energy projection (Electro comes to mind as a good example) this isn't out of the question.
Originally posted by King KAM😆
BULLSHIT!
Step 1: Spidey balls fists up and moves in on Cap. Says "What's up now Cap?!?! I'ma f**k you up man. Throw dat sheild @ me and watch what the f**k happen!!!
Step 2: Cap won't throw it because he's quite sure he'll miss & he knows can't take too many Spidey punches w/out the shield. He tries to talk Spidey out of it. "Stand down Soldier"
Spidey says "Ain't gon happen Cap'n"
3: Spidey grabs shield and moves it out of the way enough for him to get a good punch in. Cap falls on the ground like this guy that got snuck
4: Spidey says "Who else want some?!?! Beat him down beat you down!!!"
Originally posted by jinzin
like when captain america wholloped him? 😕
if he's twisting in the air and can't overcompensate while he's fighting or gets tricked by his opponent into getting hit he's still getting hit.. 🤨
there's no point in trying to pass that off as otherwise... I'm not saying that the excuses you mentioned don't happen a lot but you're making it sound like spiderman is untouchable unless something else prohibits his movement or something.. that's clearly not the case.Neutral?
I won't neglect that it happened but there was more pro spidey PIS in there than in ANY of their fights since then.. me and creshosck have gone over these points many times but I can hit them up again if you missed out...the funny thing is the times the have gotten into it since with the execption of that punisher nonsense all took place in spiderman titles or by spiderman writers at the time.. interesting is it not?
aww dam it jinzin u beat me too it again.
no it won't.. hell class 100 punches aren't guaranteed to "mess logan up"... yet that's going to change for spiderman? I don't think so...
close enough.. remember how his jellied organs healed before hulk's next punch? guess not..
oh well
also good thing spiderman doesn't land punches instantaniously either..I wouldn't, considering the fact that the only time parkers been able to consistantly avoid logan striking back at him was in a fight where logan LET spiderman hit him... the fact is spiderman isn't going to be getting any number of punches in on logan without getting diced... to land a dozen unanswered blows he'd have to do what he did in their graveyard fight and use hit and run tactics. otherwise he gets scewered real quick...
after a while? and what's happening in this scenario? is wolverine just letting spiderman cake the webbing on while he stands there helpless?
I seem to recall wolverine putting pressure on spiderman every time the guy tries to use webbing in a fight.. sure wolverine may not be able to cut through webbing indefinitely but spiderman doesn't have an indefinite amount of time to web him either..
he can punch him without being within 10 feet of logan? 🤨
wow spiderman must have got some CARAZAY upgrades with that new iron spidey suit.. 😕
Originally posted by Jade LightningWow really??? Ive never seen these images, or thought of that scenario.....
Well as for the Spidey vs. the overrated Cap by King Kam, there's a pic in the Spidey respect thread with spiderman taking him out of the fight with just his webs in seconds... and he's fighting him in Civil War by the looks of it.
shaddup
* Spidey can defeat Cap, while DD fights Logan... DD may not defeat Logan but DD is more than enough to keep him at bay... as Spidey defeats Cap, they can double-team on Logan... webs, billy-club, radar sense, spider-sense, nerve attacks and spidey punches & kicks, Logan will be utterly defeated and outclassed...
This debate shoulda happened a while ago jin. I don't know how we avoided each other this long. 😉
hopefully.... again taskmaster with ONE sword was able to cut through spideys webbing and totally and completely negate it's battlefield effectiveness.. a faster, more endurable wolverine with two arms to cut with and six blades would easily be able to reporduce the same feat...
Ah, but how much was Spidey using his webs? Rogue had a hard time breaking out of them. She would have eventually, but she was temporarily immobilized.
Take this for example:
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38238lt.gif
Try to tell me that wouldn't completely stop Logan. And if he claws his way out, he'll still have so much stuck to him that he'll be a sitting duck for quite some time.
you missed the point.. I wasn't getting at the fact that he doesn't have an unlimitede amount of webbing.. what I'm getting at is the fact that spiderman wouldn't have an indefinite time to use all his webbing... In the graveyard fight he knew that if he had given wolverine even a second he was going to be killed.. so webbing wasn't much of an option as it would take time and probably wouldn't do much to stop logan's momentum in the first place.. your scenario gives spiderman the benefit of the doubt that he'll have that time.. I think that's a bit bias..
Yes, I'm bias. Let's get that out of the way. But that doesn't mean I'm not right. 😛
Anyway, if Parker can find the time to web the Hulk, he can find the time to web Logan.
if spiderman's main focus and only focus is to dodge I don't think logan could hit him until spidey began to fatigue.. but in order to attack spiderman would leave himself open to a counter.. just like real fighting.. there in lies the problem.
Peter has fought for hours on end. Fatigue isn't going to be an issue in this fight.
dozens of unanswered hits kinda is... and again.. don't know if you saw mk spidey 3 but spiderman wasn't dodging much of what electro was dishing out.. I'm not so sure I'd be using that as an example.. 😕
Fair enough. But when Electro messed up Spidey it was a massive explosion that hurt them both (I think that might've been mk 1 though). In any case, it was long distance and more of a spread than h2h fighting. Probably a bad example to use (though he has dodged Electro just fine plenty of times).
....
I had to focus on the webbing tactic, mainly because you and I will never see eye-to-eye on how likely it is for Spidey to dodge AND remain on the offensive while fighting Logan. I understand that we're not going to find much common ground there, and the truth is probably somewhere in between our opinions.
I still hold to my stance that Parker could beat him without spinning a single web (not 10/10 or anything, but a majority at least). And while killing him might be tough, a knockout or some sort of incapacitation is certainly possible. In any case, it would be a long fight...because if Parker doesn't go for the web tactic, he'll dodge Logan for a long time and Logan would take a ton of damage before even thinking about going down.
...not sure if that was a compromise on my part, but I'm at least trying to take off my blinders to see both sides a bit.
*Wolverine still loses the majority though 😛 *
Originally posted by DigiMark007
This debate shoulda happened a while ago jin. I don't know how we avoided each other this long. 😉
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Ah, but how much was Spidey using his webs? Rogue had a hard time breaking out of them. She would have eventually, but she was temporarily immobilized.
he tried using his webs a couple of times...
when he tried to web up taskmaster, he shot his webbing outwards in an attempt to literally wrap him in a net.. taskmaster compensated just handily...
neglecting the PIS that was horribly abound in the incident involving rogue, I'm just going to say this... rogue's a bad example for a couple of reasons... first is the obvious, she doesn't have claws, second is the fact that webs are resistant to brute strength due to their relative elasticity... comparing rogue getting webbed up to wolverine isn't a slipper that fits my friend.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Take this for example:
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38238lt.gifTry to tell me that wouldn't completely stop Logan. And if he claws his way out, he'll still have so much stuck to him that he'll be a sitting duck for quite some time.
okay... it wouldn't...
why?
well first off spiderman is hitting hulk from behind, spiderman's already got an abundance of webbing on hulk before hulk is even concious enough to react...
now granted this is an impressive feat for spidey considering the compressed timeframe it occurs in, it's also extremely irregular.. but going by irregularly fast feats logan was able to dice off giests entire SKIN TIGHT bionic suit without so much as scratching him and he did this so fast that giest wasn't even able to react to it...
thus.. spidey's speed feat with webbs
vs. wolverine's with claws and we have ourselves another stalemate...
if spidey were to start webbing logan up from behind or wihout logan knowing for a moment somehow then yeah I see no reason to debate logan getting out since we would probably see him in a fasion similar to MTU.1... but that's giving spiderman the benefit of the doubt all over again.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, I'm bias. Let's get that out of the way. But that doesn't mean I'm not right. 😛
Originally posted by DigiMark007
anyway, if Parker can find the time to web the Hulk, he can find the time to web Logan.
Originally posted by DigiMark007sure it will, you're once again missing the point... just because he can fight for hours on end doesn't mean he can fight at peak efficiency for hours on end.. it's like running.. spiderman can't sprint as long as wolverine can cause wolverine's healing factor would more effectively supress lactic acids from building up for longer periods of time.. therefore hed sprint longer than spiderman can, same applies here... while spiderman starts out faster he's not going to stay that way with wolverine putting on pressure since he'll be expending energy faster while wolverine maintains.. and considering the fact that wolverine doesn't have ranged capabilities he's very likely to be putting the pressure on spiderman.. fatigue does have an effect in this battle..
Peter has fought for hours on end. Fatigue isn't going to be an issue in this fight.
Originally posted by DigiMark007actually electro had been zapping the crap out of spiderman throughout the duration of that fight.... all I'm saying is you're using dodging electro's blasts as a standard or something.. but the webhead's been hit by them once or twice for every time he dodges them.
Fair enough. But when Electro messed up Spidey it was a massive explosion that hurt them both (I think that might've been mk 1 though). In any case, it was long distance and more of a spread than h2h fighting. Probably a bad example to use (though he has dodged Electro just fine plenty of times).
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I still hold to my stance that Parker could beat him without spinning a single web (not 10/10 or anything, but a majority at least).
irmm.. I don't see how.. his punches have already proven to be as good a useless against wolverine...
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And while killing him might be tough, a knockout or some sort of incapacitation is certainly possible.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
In any case, it would be a long fight...because if Parker doesn't go for the web tactic, he'll dodge Logan for a long time and Logan would take a ton of damage before even thinking about going down
Originally posted by DigiMark007comprimise? doesn't sound much like one but it's probably as good as we're gonna get so I guess we're just left to the ol' "agree to disagree" bit.
...not sure if that was a compromise on my part, but I'm at least trying to take off my blinders to see both sides a bit.*Wolverine still loses the majority though 😛 *
now granted this is an impressive feat for spidey considering the compressed timeframe it occurs in, it's also extremely irregular.. but going by irregularly fast feats logan was able to dice off giests entire SKIN TIGHT bionic suit without so much as scratching him and he did this so fast that giest wasn't even able to react to it...
I wouldn't call it irregular...Spidey's just not usually fighting opponents where he feels the need to do this. And while Hulk wasn't directly focused on Parker at the time, he was aware enough in the fight that I think it's reasonable to assume Parker could find a similar amount of time if he needed it while fighting Wolverine...especially if there's anywhere he can temporarily jump to where Wolverine can't get him.
A bunch of webbing is one thing, but one punch to knock him to the ground or against a wall, followed by webbing his arms to the floor/wall, and Wolverine wouldn't have any leverage to cut them. I see that as much more likely (and also doesn't involve the "dozens" of punches that we'll never completely agree on).
just because he can fight for hours on end doesn't mean he can fight at peak efficiency for hours on end.. it's like running.. spiderman can't sprint as long as wolverine can cause wolverine's healing factor would more effectively supress lactic acids from building up for longer periods of time..
I'll concede that to a point....but I just can't see this fight (especially with the other 2 involved) lasting long enough for it to make a difference.
comprimise? doesn't sound much like one but it's probably as good as we're gonna get so I guess we're just left to the ol' "agree to disagree" bit.
Fair enough. Though, for what its worth, you've done a good job convincing me it would at least be a lot closer fight than I originally thought.
Originally posted by brainchild81
I'd like for somebody to explain why Wolvie supporters complain so much about the Secret Wars PIS when there was absolutely no PIS when it came down to Spidey & Wolvie. They focus on everything else and try to throw out what happend to Wolvie as PIS.
Mainly because there's other showings that also don't have PIS where Logan fares much better. Read jin's comments earlier...he does a decent job of summarizing them.
And I'm in your camp, and think Spidey's in another league (HKH...lol). But Wolverine supporters have a bit more to go off of that the Secret Wars ownage.
