Urizen VS Spectre

Full Power Urizen VS Full Power Spectre

Urizen- from Image, was subdued by Angela and Spawn in his extremely weakened form, however in his prime it took the combined forces of Heaven and Hell to imprison him with many casualties. He is a true immortal, there is no way he can die. He feeds off Spiritual Energy, negates souls, and becomes stronger with time.

Spectre- From DC, Wrath of God, is said to be on the level of The Living Tribunal from Marvel and even above that. It is stated by someone on this forum that he connected with all beings from the entire DC multiverse (If DC truly has a multiverse) and that his power comes from the Presence.

Who would take this, and why ?

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Ohh okay.....

Anyone have any opinions though ?????

LoL

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ohh okay.....

Anyone have any opinions though ?????

LoL

Okay I'll just put my opinion first then:

It was said that it took the combined forces of Heaven and Hell to imprison Urizen. He cannot die.

There Spectre killing him is out of the question.

Now as for Spectre being able to imprison him, where would that be ? And is that even possible?

Spectre is an agent for DC's God, he is one force of Heaven, and he is below Lucifer and Micheal.

In Image all the forces of Heaven n Hell together had to take down Urizen only to imprison him. Urizen feeds off the spiritual energy of ANY BEING around him. Angel or Demon or Mortal or Godling alike.

It's not certain whether or not Image's version of God got involved in the battle, but since ALL THE FORCES together had to stop him, I might assume that God himself had to get involved as well.

Remember, Todd McFarlane got the character Urizen from a writer and painter named William Blake. Urizen is his original mythology is meant to be God himself. Blake beleived that God was a cruel and sadistic being who created a wicked universe, which explains why human beings are so cruel and why animals eat each other.

So one can say Urizen is the evil version of GOD....

One might argue that Spectre's power and jurisdiction is multiversal and claim that this fact has to mean his power is equal to more than Urizen and/or his Image Universe.

Try to understand...Image is composed of one universe. There's no actual multiverse, possible alternate realities, but no campaign of Universes.

There is the Universe, Heaven, and Hell. This is all that Image's mythos is composed of. The God of this Universe is the supreme being and only made one universe.

Therefore when something BIG happens in Image, it's a BIG DEAL...not something that will be forgotten or disregarded like in DC or Marvel.

whose to say that Image's Universe isn't equivalent to DC's or even Marvel's "Multiverse" ?

What if Spawn's Universe was actually a lot huggerrrrrrrrrr than any of Marvel or DC's single universes ?

Shows like Asmodel would be a better match up to Urizen.

Full power Spectre IS the Presence, or be empowered by all of the Presence's powers. It would be above all. The Spectre's greatest version, the one who took on the Great Evil Beast, would also take this match.

darksaint can you tell us what comic spectre took down the great evil beast

{{Shows like Asmodel would be a better match up to Urizen.}}

Oh okay...whose Asmodel though ?

{{{Full power Spectre IS the Presence, or be empowered by all of the Presence's powers. It would be above all. The Spectre's greatest version, the one who took on the Great Evil Beast, would also take this match.}}}}

Hmmmm.....Urizen however at his full power may have been equivelent to image's GOD....I'm not stating this as fact, but as theory since an actual battle with Heaven and Hell against Urizen needed to occur to imprison him. Otherise God could have banished Urizen His/Herself.

But take this match......How? Urizen cannot die. He simply Is, the way the Presence simply IS....a being beyond Death. If you're saying he could imprison, then HOW and WHERE ?

can anyone tell me what comic the great evil beast appeared in?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
{{Shows like Asmodel would be a better match up to Urizen.}}

Oh okay...whose Asmodel though ?

{{{Full power Spectre IS the Presence, or be empowered by all of the Presence's powers. It would be above all. The Spectre's greatest version, the one who took on the Great Evil Beast, would also take this match.}}}}

Hmmmm.....Urizen however at his full power may have been equivelent to image's GOD....I'm not stating this as fact, but as theory since an actual battle with Heaven and Hell against Urizen needed to occur to imprison him. Otherise God could have banished Urizen His/Herself.

But take this match......How? Urizen cannot die. He simply Is, the way the Presence simply IS....a being beyond Death. If you're saying he could imprison, then HOW and WHERE ?

Without God stopping him or limiting him, and at full range of power and understanding, Spectre could probably conquer Heaven and Hell in moments with very little resistance. In fact, when Azmodel was the host, he conquered Hell in a panel or two.

{{{{{Did God actually get involved in it though?

Without God stopping him or limiting him, and at full range of power and understanding, Spectre could probably conquer Heaven and Hell in moments with very little resistance. In fact, when Azmodel was the host, he conquered Hell in a panel or two.}}}}}

It doesn't clarify in that issue with Cogliostro whether or not God got involved himself.

However, the devils in Hell fought against Urizen to contain him, so why would God not back up his Heavenly Forces ?

If God had the power to simply banish Urizen himself, then wouldn't he have avoided that war that could have destroyed the Universe he created ? Remember, Heaven and Hell in Image are extrememly powerful realms, not like the way thier represented in DC or Marvel.

If God got involved in lesser affairs like monitoring the creation of a new Redeemer, and getting held "HOSTAGE" by Spawn, then I'd bet that he was involved in the battle against Urizen.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
{{{{{Did God actually get involved in it though?

Without God stopping him or limiting him, and at full range of power and understanding, Spectre could probably conquer Heaven and Hell in moments with very little resistance. In fact, when Azmodel was the host, he conquered Hell in a panel or two.}}}}}

It doesn't clarify in that issue with Cogliostro whether or not God got involved himself.

However, the devils in Hell fought against Urizen to contain him, so why would God not back up his Heavenly Forces ?

If God had the power to simply banish Urizen himself, then wouldn't he have avoided that war that could have destroyed the Universe he created ? Remember, Heaven and Hell in Image are extrememly powerful realms, not like the way thier represented in DC or Marvel.

If God got involved in lesser affairs like monitoring the creation of a new Redeemer, and getting held "HOSTAGE" by Spawn, then I'd bet that he was involved in the battle against Urizen.

The way you're making it seem in this instance, is that God is faulty in Image, unlike in other stories/comics where everything is done with a purpose by his will.

The logic of "Why WOULDN'T God have gotten involved?" is faulty altogether.

{{God in DC comics works in mysterious ways, and rarely, if ever, gets involved himself.}}

Cool, but a bit cheesy in my opinion. He seems to indifferent and not personal enough. That whole "no one is worthy of my true presence" is too old fashioned for me.

{{{The way you're making it seem in this instance, is that God is faulty in Image, unlike in other stories/comics where everything is done with a purpose by his will.}}}}

He IS. God has numerous flaws in image, he's not even in Heaven right now. He abandoned his post and Heaven is defending itself against a horde or rebel angels while Earth is being torn apart by Armaggedom.

In fact Image Comics is the only one that stays true to the idea of FREE WILL which Marvel and DC don't. Marvel and DC make it like thier superiors made everything happen the way it was, like everything is meant to be, which is romantic, but not necessarily better or realistic than Image's version of cosmic events.

""The logic of "Why WOULDN'T God have gotten involved?" is faulty altogether."""

WHY ? People in real life ask this all the time, why God let horrible things happen. Bro, I feel you're going by this whole "God writes out your life...God has his plan and you cannot fight it "deal, what about Free Will ? what if there is no God? Are we all so bound to this idea of a Supreme Being being in total control of everything, just because our relgions have said this? Lack of imagination I think (not you but for comic writers)

In Image there are numerous forces at work here, not just God or Satan. The Man and Miracles is a total enigma in Spawn, and he is actually compelling Spawn is join forces with him AGAINST BOTH HEAVEN AND HELL...

not to mention Greenworld, the spirit of Earth and possibly the spirit of the UNIVERSE itself which doesn't welcome interference from Heaven or Hell.

DUDE in Image's mythos, Heaven and Hell are both violating the Universe' domain. It's not like DC or Marvel where we all gotta be good little boys and girls and worship God, Image is a lot more rebellious than that, and a lot more creative.

No offense to you or ne1 else, so please dont take it that way, but i get really tired of hearing "Well Spectre works for GOD..END OF STORY..you cant beat that ! POW !" what a lack of imagination of DC's part, and what a cheesy deal.

Like thier cannot be something above "God" that we don't know about? Do we even know he exists? i wanna stay on topic, i am a firm beleiver in numerous possibilities, i dont thnk things can be explained or justified THAT flatly and simply.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
{{God in DC comics works in mysterious ways, and rarely, if ever, gets involved himself.}}

Cool, but a bit cheesy in my opinion. He seems to indifferent and not personal enough. That whole "no one is worthy of my true presence" is too old fashioned for me.

{{{The way you're making it seem in this instance, is that God is faulty in Image, unlike in other stories/comics where everything is done with a purpose by his will.}}}}

He IS. God has numerous flaws in image, he's not even in Heaven right now. He abandoned his post and Heaven is defending itself against a horde or rebel angels while Earth is being torn apart by Armaggedom.

In fact Image Comics is the only one that stays true to the idea of FREE WILL which Marvel and DC don't. Marvel and DC make it like thier superiors made everything happen the way it was, like everything is meant to be, which is romantic, but not necessarily better or realistic than Image's version of cosmic events.

""The logic of "Why WOULDN'T God have gotten involved?" is faulty altogether."""

WHY ? People in real life ask this all the time, why God let horrible things happen. Bro, I feel you're going by this whole "God writes out your life...God has his plan and you cannot fight it "deal, what about Free Will ? what if there is no God? Are we all so bound to this idea of a Supreme Being being in total control of everything, just because our relgions have said this? Lack of imagination I think (not you but for comic writers)

In Image there are numerous forces at work here, not just God or Satan. The Man and Miracles is a total enigma in Spawn, and he is actually compelling Spawn is join forces with him AGAINST BOTH HEAVEN AND HELL...

not to mention Greenworld, the spirit of Earth and possibly the spirit of the UNIVERSE itself which doesn't welcome interference from Heaven or Hell.

DUDE in Image's mythos, Heaven and Hell are both violating the Universe' domain. It's not like DC or Marvel where we all gotta be good little boys and girls and worship God, Image is a lot more rebellious than that, and a lot more creative.

No offense to you or ne1 else, so please dont take it that way, but i get really tired of hearing "Well Spectre works for GOD..END OF STORY..you cant beat that ! POW !" what a lack of imagination of DC's part, and what a cheesy deal.

Like thier cannot be something above "God" that we don't know about? Do we even know he exists? i wanna stay on topic, i am a firm beleiver in numerous possibilities, i dont thnk things can be explained or justified THAT flatly and simply.

Azmodel tried to challenge the Presence, stormed the throne of Heaven, and found what. . .? That it was dumb, because The Presence IS. It is not something that can be challenged or defeated or faulty. It just is.

DC and Marvel are likewise not black and white like you're trying to make them out to be, there is shades of grey as well, but The Presence IS. It's just your lack of understanding.

Free will? We have free will, but it's all by design. And the supreme, being supreme, knows that outcome before you do.
You can worship your comics, and wipe your ass with the finest threads on Earth if you want. You have that choice. Hell in DC, there's people that have made a religion around Superman.

{{{If something was more powerful than, or above God, wouldn't that be God then? You see what I'm saying? God IS in DC, it is the sum of all. It is not a character. }}}}

Not necessarily. God in DC is Yahweh, not Presence. Some DC fan told me that Presence is the force that Yahweh created, but its part of Yahweh the BEING himself. It is a Character, but hey i respect that.

I'm not suggesting DC should change its mythos. I'm just saying I don't buy into it. The philosophy there goes against my own beleifs, but hey its all personal stuff, not something i should go into.

No if something else is beyond God, it doesn't have to be God. Here we go again...this is what im saying. We are all CONDITIONED since children to beleive that there is nothing above God, so ofcourse you could only imagine that God is above anything, and nothing else.

I'm just asking open your imagination. MAYBE there is something beyond that, if it even exists...GOD...its just a word. A word we put on something we think is real, it doesn't make it so though.

{{{{Azmodel tried to challenge the Presence, stormed the throne of Heaven, and found what. . .? That it was dumb, because The Presence IS. It is not something that can be challenged or defeated or faulty. It just is.}}}}}

But again, is the Prescence God ? And even is so, okay cool....I'm not challenging DC's structure, DC can do whatever it WANTS.

All I'm telling you is that Image made its' version of God a fraud and bully, just like DAWN by Linsner had it so. There are different beleifs Juntai, you're going by ONE point of view here.

{{{{DC and Marvel are likewise not black and white like you're trying to make them out to be, there is shades of grey as well, but The Presence IS. It's just your lack of understanding.}}}}

Hey, I'm not trying to make them black or white. I think people on this thread do so when they expect everyone to accept that TOAA or Prescene or whoever is end of story. Even if that's so in the comic books, we as comic book fans and readers don't have to follow the mythology as said.

What lack of understanding ? i understand perfectly, you seem to have a limitted understanding of what's possible. it seems like you blindly accept this one supremecy, which is fine, but you don't open yourself to the possibility that there is more.

{{Free will? We have free will, but it's all by design. }}}

Free will by design is not free will at all.

{{{{And the supreme, being supreme, knows that outcome before you do.}}}}

That's Destiny, not free will. They are different things, and if the supreme being knows what's going to happen, they your life is already written out like a soap opera, and it's not true freedom. It's Destiny which contradicts Free will completely.

_{{{{You can worship your comics, and wipe your ass with the finest threads on Earth if you want. You have that choice. Hell in DC, there's people that have made a religion around Superman.}}}}

Yeah lol and its hilarious. Bro, personally, I don't worship anything. i don't feel we have to, why should we feel that we are inferior to anything, even if we are to stronger forces, we don't have to kiss anything's ass.

I think religion was created simply to justify why horrible things happen.....its not valid to me though. Sorry.

Life and treatment of people is all that matters to me, but i guess thats off subject.

I'm just trying to tell you where im coming from.

Urizen can take down, Hal Jordan Spectre, and Host-less, but the rest can easily defeat him.

The Urizen that was presented in Spawn issues #95-99 ANY Spectre can take that version of him.

We don't know Urizen's full strength, but we do know Spectre's.

We don't know if DC's Heaven and Hell is on par with Image's Heaven and Hell.

Maybe I should have not asked this, there might not be a way to tell.

BUT since you insist Spectre takes this, I'm asking you HOW ????

Spectre cannot KILL URIZEN..nobody could.

How would Spectre at full power defeat Urizen if he was at full power ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Urizen that was presented in Spawn issues #95-99 ANY Spectre can take that version of him.

We don't know Urizen's full strength, but we do know Spectre's.

We don't know if DC's Heaven and Hell is on par with Image's Heaven and Hell.

Maybe I should have not asked this, there might not be a way to tell.

BUT since you insist Spectre takes this, I'm asking you HOW ????

Spectre cannot KILL URIZEN..nobody could.

How would Spectre at full power defeat Urizen if he was at full power ?