Originally posted by juggernaut66666
it is stated in hand book that immortal hercules has infinite stamina so he can't be KO'D
Immortal Hercules is an absolute beast ... he takes this. He is the only one (when he is ticked off) who can match Warrior Madness or uninhibited (King) Thor in sheer physical power. Plus he is a more skilled fighter.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Faster, sure, but not stronger and certainly not more durable. Higher base level maybe, but it wouldn't take long(probably a few seconds) for Hulk to reach his level.
bull... hulk has problems with characters like namor, thor, and herc on pure strength levels... doomsday EASILY overpowered superman in strength levels alone.. and superman lifts things in the quintillions.. he pulls freaking planets...
dd worked him and the rest of the leagues collective ass no problem whatsoever.. hulk isn't on DD's level in brute strength... and it's take him A WHILE to get worked up enough to get there...
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
This is applicable to only Hunter Prey Doomsday, as the current version has yet to evolve past Superman punches. 🙂
you're reffering to DD rex...
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Continuity wise, they are the same characters , what are you talking about ? 🙂
cause it's not doomsday if you're talking about DD rex which you are...
doomsday OBVIOUSLY evolved past superman's punches.. this was apparent in every damn showing he had... UNTIL dd rex showed up...
again.. it's like comparing thing to spikey thing, or savage hulk to joe fixit and trying to pass off that they are the same characters.. they're the same body perhaps.. but completely different in terms of powersets....
if this thread said DD rex then you'd be right.. but it doesn't....
Originally posted by Validus
Exactly what I'm saying. The only proof of it being Rex is the way he was drawn in IC #7 though it's worth noting he looked like classic DD in the Villains United Special. He showed none of the intelligence which was the main characteristic of Doomsday Rex.Point stands. S shield > Doomsday
and both the look and characteristic are BOTH signs of dd rex clones... there's no way of telling that it was dd since evidence suggests it was rex instead, or worse, a clone...
there seems to be some serious misconceptions about herc here wether full god or not,marve's herc has never shown to be stronger than normal thor or savage hulk he certainly is in their ballpark and they are virtual equals in strength but that is it and i have read every herc v thor and herc v hulk fight published since the early sixties.He is a great warrior and matches thor and hulk in strength department but that is it and doomsday will take him out.
"even dos dd evolved as noted by supes"
You mean Superman in H/P noticing that DD evolved from the previous encounter that was DOS.
If you want to pit the DOS version against Herc, then his chances arent really high. That fight proved DD was getting weared down. Byrne Superman won against him and he wasent stronger than the top tier this side of Marvel.
And considering how low the speed demostrated was, that wouldnt even be that much of an advantage.
The rest, except Rex pretty much dominate.
no oly, in h/p dd was evolving. he evolved a spike to stab supes when he was flying. didn't he adapt his ears for something as well? he was constantly evolving in dos and h/p. even though supes seemed to have been weaker then, he was still top of the dc foodchain. herc would stand a chance against dos, but no way herc does what dos did to the jla. he would have a chance, but not a good one imo.
there is a bit of an overestimation of herc's strength i think. he and thor are almost exactly equal. i give herc the very slightest of advantage, but not enough to make a difference. the difference between thor and herc lies in skill h2h where herc is a slight superior.
and your point is well taken about rex, val. i'd forgotten how easily he'd handled manhunter. still, gogwars had no such inhibition and i still think it's impossible to say whether it was only his intelligence that evolved or whether he was stronger as well. clearly he was much stronger than during dos. stronger than h/p? it seemed like it to moi, but there's really no proof one way or the other.
dd is was and remains a fascinating character to me.
😉
"no oly, in h/p dd was evolving. he evolved a spike to stab supes when he was flying. didn't he adapt his ears for something as well? he was constantly evolving in dos and h/p. even though supes seemed to have been weaker then, he was still top of the dc foodchain"
Nah, i know he evolved past some attacks in H/P, while the match was happening. Namely the sonic attack wich he protected of. But during DOS there is no evidence he evolved of anything -during- the fight. In fact the broken spike bone only showed up, healed again in HP. Not before.
- - -
"herc would stand a chance against dos, but no way herc does what dos did to the jla. he would have a chance, but not a good one imo. "
Physically speaking, Superman -alone- did what that JLa couldnt. And what Byrne Superman has on its record that makes him better than the top tier at Marvel? Certainly not strength, IMO.
Physically speaking i can well see Herc doing the same Superman did. Especialy when no member was stronger than he is. Keep in mind they had only Superman and a MM that at at the time couldnt displayed -his- powers but of another, iirc.
- - -
"there is a bit of an overestimation of herc's strength i think. he and thor are almost exactly equal. i give herc the very slightest of advantage, but not enough to make a difference. the difference between thor and herc lies in skill h2h where herc is a slight superior."
Thats where his strenght is. No overastimation here. Byrne Superman wasent in the same league. He wasent that below either mind you, but i wouldnt get him in exact equal terms with Hulk and Thor physically either. And that Doomsday end being in a way defeated, considering he died first and Kal only later.
- - -
"clearly he was much stronger than during dos. stronger than h/p? it seemed like it to moi, but there's really no proof one way or the other."
For me the HP version and Wars remain the most powerful considering what he did there.
HP was the real beast. Superman couldnt do a thing and needed to resort a last deception trick in order to even get out of it alive. A shame the character has been losing points since Jurgens left the helm. And many.
- - -
And for some who wants enlightment due to the internet myth about how Herc was beaten during the Hulk against Bi- Coast Avengers match. I give you some scans:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5938/avengersih322b9ce4pd.jpg
Look how Hulk slapped everyone around. He must have knocked out a bunch of people there, right?
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8660/avengersih322c0am8wa.jpg
Ops. Talked too soon.
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersih322d5oz0jo.jpg
What is this? He couldnt kill Samson? (ok, hold the jokes).
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5818/avengersih322e2vk7yg.jpg
Despair at the amazing back hand! Herc must have feard for his life there. No? Oh, just how much a sport the match is. Ouf!
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4972/avengersih322f7yf6st.jpg
The second best move Hulk did against the Olympian. He must be out cold!
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2724/herc11fe.jpg
Not really. Note how Herc is so afraid of losing to Hulk that he quickly lets She Hulk and Iron Man have its fun. "Bah, let them finish the job"
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3333/avengersih322j4xw3ac.jpg
Everything seems lost now, doesnt it?
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3838/herc23zh.jpg
"here i come to save the day"
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4673/avengersih322m9na6oy.jpg
And leading the charge.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9333/avengersih322n4cq2nj.jpg
Hulk is ready for nap time.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9949/herc30en.jpg
I wonder what Betty gave to Herc, in order for him not to kill her husband.
Im done for now. Anyone wants to post the whole thing, please do so.
he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing. can't recall if anything else evolved in that fight. herc has a chance v dos, depending on how you interpret his speed which has always been open to interpretation. if he is as fast as the heroes made him out to be, he would beat herc. if he fghts a hulk-like fight without speed, herc could win a few.
"he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing"
He evolved that level in HP. After DoS.
What i recall was Superman commenting on how DD -wasent- decreasing strenght even after practically figthing after that long a time. He wasent wearing down until a certain time in the story.
Futhermore what i took as you saying was him evolving as becoming imune during the fight against some attacks. In DOS unlike HP that didnt happened.
And as final note, you also have the statement towards the end, saying DD was getting weaken/wored down.
About speed, i dont think theres much to interpretation here, What Booster claimed was -suposse- to be impressive but was overlooked and proven not to be right in the whole story. And frankly not even in just a way but many.
P.S (i forgot another leaguer who did good as well: Maxima).
Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight.
But yeah a lot of it had to do with him not getting weaker as Supes energy stores were draining away. And him becoming immune to attacks.
And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds.
The deal at the end with the crowd watching was obviously for effect, and had no basis on the rest of the comic. It's just a representation of the world being there and watching "the day a Superman died.".
Originally posted by Juntai
Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight.But yeah a lot of it had to do with him not getting weaker as Supes energy stores were draining away. And him becoming immune to attacks.
And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds.
The deal at the end with the crowd watching was obviously for effect, and had no basis on the rest of the comic. It's just a representation of the world being there and watching "the day a Superman died.".
pretty much exactly what i wanted to say. 😉
jlakmc rox! 😄
"Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight."
Can be. Altho the struggling part i see anyone do as long he has the strenght level to back it up.
- - -
"And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds."
Sure, when they -are- moving at ligh speeds. Problem is, Gardner wasent moving at high speeds at all. Booster cooment rings even wrongly when you note how he doesnt have superspeed even. Any guy faster than him is going to be labelled faster than the Flash?
The whole issue is supported in the whole story. The reports following them as they fight. Lois Lane does the whole report. Jimmy takes shots of the fight. We see people watching TV and how the fight goes.
Camus soldiers at the end while slower wer on theyr track and could see where they wer heading.
Too much details show how that comment is the one suposse to be not taken seriously. Meant only to say "Yes, for a big monster he sure is fast".
Superman itself saying he has to match his speed in the end doesnt make it faster for me. They wer both showed not to be faster than the eye could follow.
Originally posted by leonidas
he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing. can't recall if anything else evolved in that fight. herc has a chance v dos, depending on how you interpret his speed which has always been open to interpretation. if he is as fast as the heroes made him out to be, he would beat herc. if he fghts a hulk-like fight without speed, herc could win a few.
❌
consistantly tags superman, tied up ww in her lasso faster than she could react.. took out flash while flash was coming up from behind...
Originally posted by jinzin
and both the look and characteristic are BOTH signs of dd rex clones... there's no way of telling that it was dd since evidence suggests it was rex instead, or worse, a clone...
What characteristics are you talking about? He showed up, beat some C list heroes and got KO'd by two Krytponians. I'm not seeing any Rex characteristics. Wasn't Rex casually dropped by one Superman?
Originally posted by jinzin
❌consistantly tags superman, tied up ww in her lasso faster than she could react.. took out flash while flash was coming up from behind...
i agree. earlier i said dos would win because of his speed. but several contest that speed. if he did fight a hulk-style, then herc has a chance. if he uses the speed he was creditted with, he'll beat herc everytime. 😉
Originally posted by Validus
Like I said before, he didn't look that way in the VU Special which just supports the artists interpretation theory.What characteristics are you talking about? He showed up, beat some C list heroes and got KO'd by two Krytponians. I'm not seeing any Rex characteristics. Wasn't Rex casually dropped by one Superman?
low end durability, lower end strength, and speed.... and he looks exactly like DD rex...
dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking...
the only times that's changed are when rex was the example.. and hey look.. there he is.. looks just like rex.. hmm interesting...
There was nothing low end in there. He punched Superman(E-1), broke a claw (which he did in DOS), got a knee to face from Superman (E-2) and put down by the dual Thorbuster. The 4 panels there is better than his showing in Superman #175.
-"dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking..."
Except even Rex made J'onn Jonzz his (w)itch easier than he did in DOS. And is Villains United not canon or something?
Originally posted by Validus
There was nothing low end in there. He punched Superman(E-1), broke a claw (which he did in DOS), got a knee to face from Superman (E-2) and put down by the dual Thorbuster. The 4 panels there is better than his showing in Superman #175.
no it's not... in supes 175 he at least had the upperhand on supes for a bit...and took supes primary puches with little to no effect at all.....
Originally posted by Validushe had fire breath...... 😕
-"dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking..."Except even Rex made J'onn Jonzz his (w)itch easier than he did in DOS. And is Villains United not canon or something?
batman's put martians down with fire... not really impressed...
