Originally posted by Swanky-TunaHe did like Dazzler. She attacked him thinking he'd be easy to take down cause he was in "civillian mode". he got a bit ticked at his civies being destroyed and wanted to talk to her. So he chases after her and she freaks, and starts using her powers to try and stop him... eventually she uses up all her energy and passes out. Juggernaught being known more for brawn than brain thinks he killed her when he uses a very minor thunder clap to break out of the hypnosis that Dazzler was using as a last resort.
I thought he liked Dazzler, like Rhino, already.
and after she passes out he sitting there holding her he talks about how he just wanted to scare her was all, and never meant to hurt her. and then the line. "I worshipped her, I killed her."
He was ecstatic that he didn't kill her next time he sees her.
Originally posted by newjak86
It is true that Cain is not a dead body but if someone can in turn not feel pain and exist without said organs then if someone attacks them would it not be simple for the person not needing them to disregard what is effecting them.
If his are being attacked then would he not be able to say well I don't need them really.
You're forgetting something...Cain isn't a god.
He has been granted GODLY power, who's to say he's proficient in using it? As stated many times by Swanky he still sleeps, eats, drinks...it's the only way he knows how to live...he's still HUMAN.
Just because he can survive without a brain, doesn't mean he knows how or why he can. He still uses it as any normal human would, hence he can still be affected by illadelphs said attacks.
He has clearly mastered how to be physically invulnerable. His body cannot be harmed in any way, we all know this. His mind however, has always been shown to be vulnerable.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Wasn't Juggernaut in a magical realm with a pink energy glow when he walked around as a skeleton? That's not his normal state.
He has been seen with the pink energy glow more than just then. It seems to happen when he is stressing his connection to cyttorak like when he was pushing war hulk and during the exemplars fight. No the fight with D'spayre was in New Mexico, he was trying to open a portal to our plane so his hoards could invade.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Wasn't Juggernaut in a magical realm with a pink energy glow when he walked around as a skeleton? That's not his normal state.
itried that. he has the glow against warhulk, but i'm still not totally convinced that spite wasn't responsible for helping to keep juggernaut moving as a skeleton. his shield was depicted differently in that one-shot than it was in the scene where he is a skeleton. and spite's hand is glopwing with the same colour as the shield around juggs and in a different scene all of them are bathed in the same colour glow. it was on earth though -- but somewhere d'spayre altered the place they were fighting with an illusion or something. i'm not sure what he did . . . the whole scene really needs some explanation.
so the people on this thread are saying that if war hulk beheaded juggs as he appeared to be about to do, that . . . what? jugg's could still have gotten back up and kept fighting? 😕
Originally posted by leonidasThe reason they all possessed a simialr glow is that they all were using Cyttorak's power. The D'Spayre had drained some of Cain's power. Infact throughout the the story Cain is very weakened and was feeling pain for the first time in a long time. So he did the Skeleton bit depowered.
itried that. he has the glow against warhulk, but i'm still not totally convinced that spite wasn't responsible for helping to keep juggernaut moving as a skeleton. his shield was depicted differently in that one-shot than it was in the scene where he is a skeleton. and spite's hand is glopwing with the same colour as the shield around juggs and in a different scene all of them are bathed in the same colour glow. it was on earth though -- but somewhere d'spayre altered the place they were fighting with an illusion or something. i'm not sure what he did . . . the whole scene really needs some explanation.so the people on this thread are saying that if war hulk beheaded juggs as he appeared to be about to do, that . . . what? jugg's could still have gotten back up and kept fighting? 😕
The question here now being raised is A) We know Cain function without his basic human systems. B) But we also no that on a normal basis he generally uses them.
So therefore how should this effect him when these systems are attacked.
On one side one can argue that if someone can exist without and still perform said functions and not feel pain then attacking those function should not bother him.
The other side is if one even though he can exist without him still can use those functions then why would not attacking them still cause the same effects upon the person even though they can function without them.
There is evidence and feats to back up both arguements.
Ill the only thing I think your assumiong to much though is the idea that just becuase TP works that Sonics must also work. Since I have shown evidence that TP may not be some attack purely on the brain but attacks that of the consciousnes or "mind" of a person. As shown with the ideas sourounding Astral Projection.
One must also look at the notion of not feeling Pain as well. Seeing as Pain is nothing more than the nervous system sending input to your brain where your brain takes it in and tells you what is going on. Therefore if attacks on his brain work he should also feel pain.
The other part to this is that to assume Cain can still be attacked because he still uses those functions then other attacks like nerve agents should also work gasses, Electric shocks should also work since the current would be spread throughout his body fring his brain.
But if you do not believe that Cain can feel Pain and that his nerves don't send the ideas of pain to his brain then sonics still should not work. as sonics unlike TP still are recieved through outside stimuli while TP is a direct attack on the brain.
Man I feel like GS at the moment.
I'm more with the train of thought that he does feel pain if the implement is delivered correctly. The toxins/gases angle is moot because the gem grants him a form of immunity and can sustain him.
He does need to hear and see, however, which is why he is capable of being hypnotized by Dazzler and sonically overloaded by Nimrod. All of Cain's senses work. He still has a sense of sight, hearing, taste, touch and scent, and they can all be tricked and exploited. You simply can't directly assault him with conventional methods of physical damage. I'm sure when Cain picks something up he feels the object in his hand. He's even commented on attacks "tingling" or "tickling". It could be said the gem protects his sense of touch from harm. He can't be harmed by attacks that require physical contact or levying concussive force to harm him. He can be blinded, tricked, hypnotized, and sonically overwhelmed, however, because those forms of attacks deal with aspects of Cain's physiology the gem does not protect nor enhance.
As for telepathy, it only works on beings with sentient minds (which is normally accompanied by a brain in organic lifeforms). In some instances you have non-corporeal energy beings which are simply sentient energy or disembodied consciousnesses.
In organic beings, under normal circumstances, a brain is required for thought. There are exceptions to the rule like Shadow King, Apocalypse, and Cassandra Nova, I'll grant you that (though they're always looking for a new host body).
I guess it could be said that so long as the spirit/sentience is housed in a physical body it is bound by the physical laws and physical stimuli.
i'll not debate the glow around juggs anymore, as there is no real evidence to support my claim that spite helped him. true they were all sharing the power, but it was odd that said glow only appeared in the place where he was a skeleton and odd that spite's hand is glowing the same colour. not as odd as seeing juggs walking and talking as a skeleton saying HATE is keeping him going with SPITE right beside him . . .
anywho . . . could juggs have continued on without a head? or does the brain fall under the category of 'organs juggs needs to keep moving . . .'?
😗
Originally posted by leonidas
i'll not debate the glow around juggs anymore, as there is no real evidence to support my claim that spite helped him. true they were all sharing the power, but it was odd that said glow only appeared in the place where he was a skeleton and odd that spite's hand is glowing the same colour. not as odd as seeing juggs walking and talking as a skeleton saying HATE is keeping him going with SPITE right beside him . . .anywho . . . could juggs have continued on without a head? or does the brain fall under the category of 'organs juggs needs to keep moving . . .'?
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leo, my friend, I was thinking the same thing.
Originally posted by illadelph12
I'm more with the train of thought that he does feel pain if the implement is delivered correctly. The toxins/gases angle is moot because the gem grants him a form of immunity and can sustain him.
Originally posted by illadelph12A very good post I must say Ill.
I'm more with the train of thought that he does feel pain if the implement is delivered correctly. The toxins/gases angle is moot because the gem grants him a form of immunity and can sustain him.He does need to hear and see, however, which is why he is capable of being hypnotized by Dazzler and sonically overloaded by Nimrod. All of Cain's senses work. He still has a sense of sight, hearing, taste, touch and scent, and they can all be tricked and exploited. You simply can't directly assault him with conventional methods of physical damage. I'm sure when Cain picks something up he feels the object in his hand. He's even commented on attacks "tingling" or "tickling". It could be said the gem protects his [b]sense of touch
from harm. He can't be harmed by attacks that require physical contact or levying concussive force to harm him. He can be blinded, tricked, hypnotized, and sonically overwhelmed, however, because those forms of attacks deal with aspects of Cain's physiology the gem does not protect nor enhance.As for telepathy, it only works on beings with sentient minds (which is normally accompanied by a brain in organic lifeforms). In some instances you have non-corporeal energy beings which are simply sentient energy or disembodied consciousnesses.
In organic beings, under normal circumstances, a brain is required for thought. There are exceptions to the rule like Shadow King, Apocalypse, and Cassandra Nova, I'll grant you that (though they're always looking for a new host body).
I guess it could be said that so long as the spirit/sentience is housed in a physical body it is bound by the physical laws and physical stimuli. [/B]
TP as you say only works on sentient being( Switch have brains) but non-sentient lifeforms also have brains and TP won't work with them. And as you point creatures have been shown to exist without corpal bodies as a mind. And they can still be effected by TP even though they do not possess a brain. Meaningthat a physical brain is not needed for TP to work.
anywho . . . could juggs have continued on without a head? or does the brain fall under the category of 'organs juggs needs to keep moving . . .'?This is not being a fanboy here or even saying that he would live but here is food for thought. when he was a skeleton he already survived without a brain. Now as to whether or not Cain could survive his head being cut off I won't say he would or wouldn't. There is no evidence to support either one but trust me I wouldn't put past old cain to simply pick the head back up and put it back on. 😉
Yeah, this is pretty much what I'm thinking too. You could poison him and he would process it through his body like a normal person but the gem's magic protects him from the ill effects. But there's no clauses about messing with the brain functions.Still any effect on any organ would immediatly be transffered to the brain vai nervous system and then his Brain would feel the effects as well as his body.
Originally posted by newjak86
Still any effect on any organ would immediatly be transffered to the brain vai nervous system and then his Brain would feel the effects as well as his body.
Originally posted by illadelph12
So Juggernaut can't [b]hear with his helmet on? [/B]
I do know what you are getting at, and it's plausible due to him having a shit load of bad writers trying to figure out a way for street levelers to take out a cosmically durable guy.
If we want to use a base incorrect display of abilities on Nimrod's side that he's used only once, why not do the same in favor of Jug as well? Jug has shot magical bolts from his hands that shrunk people and teleported them away. Should we use it here? No. Why? It's illogical.
I do agree that Jug's senses can be overloaded to some degree, a bright, bright flash may temp blind him, but nothing more. A futuristic robot's high frequency specially attuned attack may make him dizzy, but nothing more. (If I remember correctly, Nimrod's attack didn't k.o Jug, it just stunned him...right? Nimrod then punched Jug into some metal, I think). But, a bunch of ruskies clapping their hands to the beat won't do jack pud.