Solid Snake VS Nightwing

Originally posted by Sam Z
Fox used all his speed when he fought Snake, that's obvious when you look at his attacks with blade.
Why nothing? What makes you think that Snake dodging bullets is less impressive than NW? Only because NW did it more times? There is no lasers in MGS that's why Snake never had to dodge them.

And as for Snake, Nightwing has had simply way more impressive and more difficult bullet dodging feats....only one of Snake's I can remember was dodging Vulcan Raven, and that would be majorly impressive if he had just stood there...but Snake was just running in circles faster then Vulcan could turn with that huge gun of his.

Nightwing jumped in the batcave.

Snake can't jump in the batcave, why ? ..because there was no batcave for him to jump in, doesn't mean he couldn't...because the batcave wasn't in mgs doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to jump in it....

Thats an example with lasers. Also Comics come out faster than aids so he had the chance to show more feats, Snake can't show alot since he was in barley any games. Maybe when MGS 4 comes out you will see mroe feats and more feats of raiden killing those big metal gear plus sized robots with super speed and more than one at a time with his new cyber ninja suit.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I guess most of your Fox feats are from Twin Snakes, which I haven't played. Still, I have now watched this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-819775001829611694&q=gray+fox
No bullet dodging feat Fox does there is better then Nightwings, and he has actually more room there (With REX) then Nightwing has had in some of his. I believe Nightwing could hang with Fox too. He has hurt guys who can survive a building, guys who can rip steel doors off their hinges and guys who are stronger then 100 men etc...

And as for Snake, Nightwing has had simply way more impressive and more difficult bullet dodging feats....only one of Snake's I can remember was dodging Vulcan Raven, and that would be majorly impressive if he had just stood there...but Snake was just running in circles faster then Vulcan could turn with that huge gun of his.

As for nightwing being in over 300 comics and snake a couple games...duh he has morefeats because he has more comics.

Originally posted by Ritoshi
Nightwing jumped in the batcave.

Snake can't jump in the batcave, why ? ..because there was no batcave for him to jump in, doesn't mean he couldn't...because the batcave wasn't in mgs doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to jump in it....

Thats an example with lasers. Also Comics come out faster than aids so he had the chance to show more feats, Snake can't show alot since he was in barley any games. Maybe when MGS 4 comes out you will see mroe feats and more feats of raiden killing those big metal gear plus sized robots with super speed and more than one at a time with his new cyber ninja suit.

But if Person A has greater feats and more appearences then Person B, it still doesn't change the fact that Person A has greater feats...and if Person B hasn't shown feats to compete with them, how can you argue that he can...?

Originally posted by Ritoshi
Fox is in an open room..Nightwing has shit to jump off of back and forth and while he was jumping down in that pic now one can hit the man with hand guns.

Uh...dodging things in open LARGE room is far more easier then in closed space like this, for example...
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year1997dodgesbulletsfromladyv.gif

Originally posted by Ritoshi
As for nightwing being in over 300 comics and snake a couple games...duh he has morefeats because he has more comics.

Not just more feats...better is the key word.

[QUOTE=6554037]Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]Uh...dodging things in open LARGE room is far more easier then in closed space like this, for example...
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year1997dodgesbulletsfromladyv.gif

look at the direction he is headed and umm people shooting at him ? How about switch the people with a metal gear with a bigger machine gun/shoots out faster.

And for the record If it was Ninja vs Nightwing..Nightwing would lose.

Originally posted by Ritoshi
[QUOTE=6554037]Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]
look at the direction he is headed and umm people shooting at him ? How about switch the people with a metal gear with a bigger machine gun/shoots out faster.

Even the most powerful machine gun in the world shoots with 70 rounds per second. I'd say REX had something like that. Most handheld machineguns shoot out with roughly 10 rounds per second. There were dozen guys shooting at Nightwing. In different directions. That's like 120 bullets per second in different directions compared to Fox's something like 140, but his were shooting on the same place.

Nightwing's feat is more impressive in this pic, for example...
http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year1997dodgesbullets39yv.gif

Originally posted by Ritoshi
[QUOTE=6554037]Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[B]And for the record If it was Ninja vs Nightwing..Nightwing would lose.

Why? Snake is not stronger nor faster then Nightwing and he was still apparently able to defeat Fox...Nightwing's hurt people of Fox's durability before...and is fast enough to dodge that sword, so...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I guess most of your Fox feats are from Twin Snakes, which I haven't played. Still, I have now watched this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-819775001829611694&q=gray+fox
No bullet dodging feat Fox does there is better then Nightwings, and he has actually more room there (With REX) then Nightwing has had in some of his. I believe Nightwing could hang with Fox too. He has hurt guys who can survive a building, guys who can rip steel doors off their hinges and guys who are stronger then 100 men etc...

And as for Snake, Nightwing has had simply way more impressive and more difficult bullet dodging feats....only one of Snake's I can remember was dodging Vulcan Raven, and that would be majorly impressive if he had just stood there...but Snake was just running in circles faster then Vulcan could turn with that huge gun of his.

Watch this video again. Bullets move with 900meter/second from hand guns. Rex had a heavy machinegun, what means these bullets moved even faster than that. And Fox moved almost as fast as the bullets Rex fired at him. You seriously think that NW moves that fast? Yes, he dodges bullets, but so does Batgirl, Wolverine, DD but their speed is still not a match for Fox's.

NW doesn't have more impressive feats, he only has MORE feats because of his long comicbook hystory. During only two games Snake did things that NW was doing for many years and his feats are as impressive. Remember that shot of Ocelot when Snake wasn't even seeing him? Or may be you thing that during ALL shotouts Snake went through alone he hadn't to dodge bullets? There were scenes when he was fighting dozens of armed guys with no cover near by. There was no other way for him to survive that but to dodge and fire back.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HNiZpjfX9hQ&search=ocelot

Notice that Snake jumps after the bullet was fired. Again bullets move with the speed 900 m/s.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Watch this video again. Bullets move with 900meter/second from hand guns. Rex had a heavy machinegun, what means these bullets moved even faster than that. And Fox moved almost as fast as the bullets Rex fired at him. You seriously think that NW moves that fast? Yes, he dodges bullets, but so does Batgirl, Wolverine, DD but their speed is still not a match for Fox's.

Actually, the muzzle velocity of the largest machine gun in history is only about 1000 m/s, whereas most handheld guns have something like 800 m/s. Bigger size doesn't mean that it is majorly faster. And Fox wasn't moving as fast as the bullets. He was moving as fast as the guns were moving, which was still fast, but not bullet speed fast.

Originally posted by Sam Z
NW doesn't have more impressive feats, he only has MORE feats because of his long comicbook hystory. During only two games Snake did things that NW was doing for many years and his feats are as impressive. Remember that shot of Ocelot when Snake wasn't even seeing him? Or may be you thing that during ALL shotouts Snake went through alone he hadn't to dodge bullets? There were scenes when he was fighting dozens of armed guys with no cover near by. There was no other way for him to survive that but to dodge and fire back.

Dodging an one revolver shot while not even seeing something is impressive? Nightwing dodges machinegun fire while his back turned and saving someone with ease:
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year1997savesbatman2mm.gif

And Snake's speciality is stealth and guns...I don't remember him dodging lot of things while I was playing the game. Nightwing's speciality is speed and agility, and he has more feats to show that. Feats which are also more impressive.

Originally posted by Sam Z
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HNiZpjfX9hQ&search=ocelot

Notice that Snake jumps after the bullet was fired. Again bullets move with the speed 900 m/s.

Bullets from Colt Single Action Army (greatest handgun ever made) highest speed is only 300 m/s...

Not really impressive compared to this...
http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001dodgesautomaticgunfire.gif

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually, the muzzle velocity of the [B]largest machine gun in history is only about 1000 m/s, whereas most handheld guns have something like 800 m/s. Bigger size doesn't mean that it is majorly faster. And Fox wasn't moving as fast as the bullets. He was moving as fast as the guns were moving, which was still fast, but not bullet speed fast.[/B]

OK 800m/s. How so? Look at the video, they show it in slow motion, Fox was moving almost as fast as the bullets.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler Dodging an one revolver shot while not even seeing something is impressive? Nightwing dodges machinegun fire while his back turned and saving someone with ease:
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year1997savesbatman2mm.gif

And Snake's speciality is stealth and guns...I don't remember him dodging lot of things while I was playing the game. Nightwing's speciality is speed and agility, and he has more feats to show that. Feats which are also more impressive. [/B]

Again, do you really think Snake went through all those shotouts without dodging? He had no other way or he would've been dead by now and since he was fighting dozens of armed guys I believe he had to dodge multiple gunfire.
The video was aimed to show how fast he moves even comparing to bullet. There are planty of other feats when he dodges gunfire and yet I haven't seen anything that showes that NW is faster.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Bullets from Colt Single Action Army (greatest handgun ever made) highest speed is only 300 m/s...

Not really impressive compared to this...
http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001dodgesautomaticgunfire.gif

Unlike these street idiots Snake was fighting and dodging trained soldiers and super soldiers.

Originally posted by Sam Z
OK 800m/s. How so? Look at the video, they show it in slow motion, Fox was moving almost as fast as the bullets.

I assume you mean the part where he cuts bullets? Fox can move his hands at least faster then Nightwing can move his hands, I give him that. But his dodging feats aren't more impressive. When they show it in slow motion, all that he really does is dodge the bullets while moving through air. Nightwing dodges more difficult amount of bullets and from way more directions while jumping through the air also.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Again, do you really think Snake went through all those shotouts without dodging? He had no other way or he would've been dead by now and since he was fighting dozens of armed guys I believe he had to dodge multiple gunfire.

What kind of shotouts? I don't remember shotouts in game where he had dodged them, other then boss battles. Can you name any?

Originally posted by Sam Z
The video was aimed to show how fast he moves even comparing to bullet. There are planty of other feats when he dodges gunfire and yet I haven't seen anything that showes that NW is faster.

Yeah? Dodging a bullet after its fired? Nightwing does stuff like that all the time. Multiple bullets. He's even faster then Batman.
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001fasterthenbatman8wj.gif

Originally posted by Sam Z
Unlike these street idiots Snake was fighting and dodging trained soldiers and super soldiers.

Ex Transsilvanian Militia:
http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001dodgesautomaticgunfire.gif

Read the text next time. They are trained soldiers.

Nightwing is a younger version of Batman, Nightwing feats are greater, hell he's been dodging Deathstroke bullets for the past 26 years and he carries some mean mofo guns. Who's better than nightwing is Batman, Deathstroke they been dodging bullets like it was zone dodge.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I assume you mean the part where he cuts bullets? Fox can move his hands at least faster then Nightwing can move his hands, I give him that. But his dodging feats aren't more impressive. When they show it in slow motion, all that he really does is dodge the bullets while moving through air. Nightwing dodges more difficult amount of bullets and from way more directions while jumping through the air also.

No, I was talking about the part when he stands and moves his torso to dodge bullets. And when he runs and jumps he really does it almost as fast as bullets fly. Sorry but NW's dodging feats is still not a match for Fox. Fox is more in spider-man league when it comes to dodging.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler What kind of shotouts? I don't remember shotouts in game where he had dodged them, other then boss battles. Can you name any?[/B]

When I was talking about shotout I wasn't talking about any special moment, I was just saying that how could one survive when there are dozens armed soldiers and no place to hide. Only dodging and fireing back. And if to talk about official story episodes then fight with Big Boss is the first thing that comes in mind. Big Boss took 5 armed soldiers who surrounded him in the open area with knife only. The same guy fought snake. Boss had a machine gun, Snake was unarmed. Snake won.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler Yeah? Dodging a bullet after its fired? Nightwing does stuff like that all the time. Multiple bullets. He's even faster then Batman.
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001fasterthenbatman8wj.gif [/B]

I don't see him dodging them after they are fired, seems he simply moves of their way.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ex Transsilvanian Militia:
http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=year2001dodgesautomaticgunfire.gif

Read the text next time. They are trained soldiers.

And Snake fought genetically enhanced super soldiers. Big different.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Even the most powerful machine gun in the world shoots with 70 rounds per second.

Originally posted by Ritoshi
And this is a video game where no one sees you hiding in a cardboard box... 😐

Metal Gear Rex had 12,7 mm caliber machineguns.