The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Originally posted by ares834
Admittedly, I somewhat agree that King Adas's story should be told as it is important but I like the idea of keeping him as a legendary figure. However, Tulak Hord doesn't seem to really be that important to Star Wars history; he just seems to be an incredibly powerful Sith Lord. Keeping him as this legendary figure is a good thing IMO plus they can go crazy with it like TOR seems to have done. I don't know I just sorta find it fun.

According to TOR, Tulak Hord was anything but unimportant to SW History. He conquered the entire Dromund system using some arcane ritual. Will know more soon.

Still a minor footnote in SW history IMO.

No more minor than Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, or Freedan Nadd, all of whom got more exposure.

And an absence of material doesn't necessarily indicate lack of importance; until this past year, we knew almost nothing of the Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No more minor than Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, or Freedan Nadd, all of whom got more exposure.

Exar Kun and Naga Sadow actually waged war on a galactic scale and changed the face of the entire galaxy for a time. In fact, I would argue that Naga Sadow is one of the most important Sith Lords in the mythos. Comparatively Hord captured one planet, albeit an important one. But yeah, Hord's importance seems to be on par with Nadd's.

And an absence of material doesn't necessarily indicate lack of importance; until this past year, we knew almost nothing of the Sith Emperor.

Fair enough.

A virus ate my computer today and took out all my protection software.

Damn bestiality porn websites.

Originally posted by ares834
[B]Exar Kun and Naga Sadow actually waged war on a galactic scale and changed the face of the entire galaxy for a time. In fact, I would argue that Naga Sadow is one of the most important Sith Lords in the mythos. Comparatively Hord captured one planet, albeit an important one. But yeah, Hord's importance seems to be on par with Nadd's.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The impression I always got from that was because he was all over Dooku with his lightsaber, he simply did not give Dooku a chance (by that point in the fight) to use his superior command of the force to his advantage.

Like you said, if Lucas wanted to show Anakin's clear superiority he could have had him force pushing Dooku across the room. But we never see how ROTS Anakin would hold in a force contest against Dooku, so its something that can be debated.

To be fair: Dooku still parried Anakin's attack with only one hand, when he was driven backwards by the young Jedis final assault. So he could technically have employed one of his one-handed force attacks (push, lightning) in order to at least disrupt Skywalkers assault or even floor him. He doesn't even try something like that. To be precise: He doesn't try anything like that through-out the entirety of the fight.

I still don't think that Anakin's force mastery is anywhere compareable to that of Dooku. His sheer potential may allow him some spectacular exploits of the force during the series, but I don't think that he is truely exceptional in terms of force mastery in his "usual" state in RotS times. Though this can be debated, provided the stuff in-suit Vader pulls off only shortly after RotS.

You see he had that focus and clarity while using his rage at that point in the movie. I think focus and clarity is what takes a temporary force boost and turns it into something more consistent and combat effective that can decide the outcome of the fight.

Remember despite Obi-Wan's rage against Maul (after seeing his Master die, so not exactly something he could repeat in any fight) he was never actually defating Maul, and his boost only lasted a few seconds, and he still lost (the lightsaber duel).

I have to disagree with you. We don't know how long Obi-Wans "rage" against Maul did last:

YouTube video

As you can see, the movie cuts away in both instances of the shields being closed, making it impossible to determine how long Obi-Wan had to wait to confront Maul, after Qui-Gon did receive the fatal blow.

Even in the time span the movie does actually depict, Obi-Wan gets angry at 3:20 and stays in advantage until at least 3:50, while he does still look angry right before Maul force pushes him into the shaft (4:05). So that "rage" lasting for 30 seconds at last, 45 if you follow my interpretation and a far longer time, depending on how long Obi-Wan had to wait for the energy fields to open again. Provided that Qui-Gon sits down to meditate in the same situation, a minute or more doesn't seem out of question. And, to add that, he wasn't outdueled but defeated with a well placed force attack by Maul...

And since an allusion to Opress was placed: I'm still convinced that Opress could have performed all he did so far under influence of some surge of force rage. His individual actions didn't take that much of screen time.

I am. Seeing Ventress disarm Obi-Wan twice in CW shows his defences are not as invincible as everyone makes out. They can be broken. The second time Ventress disarmed Kenobi was with a Kick. Dooku's kick's are far worse, and more calculated.

Was that the same occassion where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought Ventress, and where she was force pushed into submission by Obi-Wan first, lost one of her lightsabers to him kicking her, and the second to one of Kenobi's saber movements?
Seriously. I doubt that Obi-Wan focused much on his defense there, duelling Ventress together with Anakin. And he has a certain weak spot for her, which has been established in the series as well as in the EU canon (e.g. Obsession). I doubt that he was giving all he could (in terms of defense) in that scene in question.
And you have to take into consideration that Dooku fights much less offensively in comparison to Ventress...

Anakin did have that chance. Him and Kenobi stalemated a force push attack on each other. If Anakin's ability with the Force was anything like Dooku's that would have been the end of Kenobi there and then.

I put the difference in Anakin's fight with Dooku and Kenobi down to:

1) Dooku being surprised at how powerful Anakin was, and by that point no longer having a chance to use the Force effectively on him.

2) Anakin's clarity with which he used his rage against Dooku not being present in his fight against Obi-wan.

3) Obi-Wan knowing Anakin too well.

Sounds good.

@TP

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I need to write one about another character, anywayz.

You're placing too much work on my desk. Let me destroy rant about examine the Palpatine Essay first... 😉

Borbarad
You're placing too much work on my desk.

Then perhaps you must purchase a bigger desk? excellent

Borbarad
Let me destroy rant about examine the Palpatine Essay first... 😉

Your favorite mod locked the damn thing. 😬

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Then perhaps you must purchase a bigger desk? excellent

I have a pretty huge one already...
It's currently littered with written exams, seminar papers and specialist literature, though.

Your favorite mod locked the damn thing. 😬

Where is the problem?
Given that I plan to include a general lecture on the verification of sources, the destinction of individual media and the limitations of coherence in multi-author projects, such as the SW universe, I'm rather certain it deserves a new thread - if I'll ever find the time to occupy myself with it. 😬

Borbarad
I have a pretty huge one already...

...............We're still talking about desks right?

Borbarad
I'm rather certain it deserves a new thread

Because of its well sourced brilliance, right? Right? stoned

Spoiler:
Looking forward to it. I need to continue updating the Palpatine one and then do another one about another character.

Originally posted by Borbarad

I have to disagree with you. We don't know how long Obi-Wans "rage" against Maul did last:

YouTube video

As you can see, the movie cuts away in both instances of the shields being closed, making it impossible to determine how long Obi-Wan had to wait to confront Maul, after Qui-Gon did receive the fatal blow.

Thats a really good point. I'l have to think about it..

The only thing Il say is that obviously Obi-Wan's rage was unusually high and a one-off.. Its not going to be every day that his Mentor/Master will die in front of him.

Whilst Opress's rage boosts dnt seem to need the same level of motivation. It seems its something inside him that can be unleashed any time (kind of like Anakin)..

And his boost seemed to be far greater than Obi-Wan's also IMO.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Was that the same occassion where Anakin and Obi-Wan fought Ventress, and where she was force pushed into submission by Obi-Wan first, lost one of her lightsabers to him kicking her, and the second to one of Kenobi's saber movements?

Urm yeah, but both those things happened while she was fighting off Anakin. And the force push happened a few seconds before she began force choking both Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously. I know we can always say he was holding back, but its pure speculation IMO, and I really dnt see any excuse for being disarmed and put on the floor like that while he had back up. I also see no reason for going easy on his defence against the likes of Ventress.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Seriously. I doubt that Obi-Wan focused much on his defense there, duelling Ventress together with Anakin. And he has a certain weak spot for her, which has been established in the series as well as in the EU canon (e.g. Obsession). I doubt that he was giving all he could (in terms of defense) in that scene in question.

Iv not really seen a hint of this in the series. And im not sure where Obsession even fits into canonicity any more. That was supposed to be Obi-Wan and Anakin's first encounter with Ventress after she gave Anakin his scar! Lol

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
...............We're still talking about desks right?

Of course, we are.

Because of its well sourced brilliance, right? Right? stoned

Because of my unparalleled brilliance, that will make you cry cause a new age of enlightment put certain things into perspective.

Spoiler:
Looking forward to it. I need to continue updating the Palpatine one and then do another one about another character.

Spoiler:
I don't think that this kind of source compilation can yield acceptable results. Even if executed with extreme attention to all details and without any kind of bias, the source material itself prevents an accurate judgement, because of...

1) ...several authors descriping characters differently. See variations of Luke Skywalker between "having problems to defeat a single droideka" (Zahn) and "force god" (NJO).
2) ...narrative styles in individual media and their effects on various characters (e.g. characters appearing in video games or RPGs)
3) ...various contradictions within the canon material.

To take those things into consideration, that kind of essay would probably need to be much longer than the one about Sidious.

B.
1) ...several authors descriping characters differently. See variations of Luke Skywalker between "having problems to defeat a single droideka" (Zahn) and "force god" (NJO).

I'd submit that such discrepancies can be examined holistically and accuracy can be attained through careful investigation. For example, Luke's underperforming in Zahn-related works is usually the product of Luke's in-universe minimalist tendencies; this is addressed in the Hand of Thrawn duology and then readdressed in The Unifying Force: Luke is hesitant to draw upon his full spectrum of powers in combat because of fear that he is abusing such power and toeing the line between light and dark.

If Yoda's words in The Empire Strikes Back are to be believed {and according to Ush, they are and you dare not disagree}, then there are no limits to what a Force user can do-- except for those limits that he or she imposes upon themselves.

Realistically, any Force user is capable of extraordinary feats of power {some easier than others, i.e. the Skywalkers, because their abundance of midichlorians enables them to tap into the Force in ways that others have to work at to replicate}.

B.
2) ...narrative styles in individual media and their effects on various characters (e.g. characters appearing in video games or RPGs)

This, too, has never been much of an issue as far as I'm concerned. Consider, if you will, the nature of the Force as portrayed in The Force Unleashed. Kazdan Paratus, something of a random Jedi Knight, is capable of using the Force in ways that most Jedi Knights and Masters are not shown to do. He was singlehandedly capable of destroying legions of battle droids according to the game's databank and used the Force to assemble and animate a veritable army of junk titans from afar. Now, would I put him above the likes of Yoda or Mace Windu? No, because canon makes it abundantly clear that these two are the most skilled and powerful Force users {all around} available to the Jedi order.

B.
3) ...various contradictions within the canon material.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
This, too, has never been much of an issue as far as I'm concerned. Consider, if you will, the nature of the Force as portrayed in The Force Unleashed. Kazdan Paratus, something of a random Jedi Master, is capable of using the Force in ways that most Jedi Knights and Masters are not shown to do.

Fixed, but otherwise very nice post.

ty

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fixed, but otherwise very nice post.

Win.

THE MASS EFFECT MMO:
After ME3, Shepard and Tali (who is Shepar'ds lover no matter what you chose) go into dark space to fight the TRUE THREAT. 300 years later you're a nobody who finds out Shepard was betrayed by his former ally LORD MURDEROUS and Shepard was kept alive by REAPER CHEMISTRY by the REAPER EMPEROR. You then find Shepard, who looks like a balding pedophile, kill him easily, and loot his N7 pants. It sounds ridiculous, but that's basically the Old Republic.

😂

Whats that from? Its fantastic.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Win.

I dun get it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats that from? Its fantastic.

Agreed.

I dun get it.

It's the Collector General, possessed by Harbinger, doing the Scat Man impression. Youtubez Scat Man if you're confused. Make sure NSFW settings are on.