The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Google Books is a fickle b1tch. I am continuously displeased that they remove most of the Plagueis chapters seconds after I visit.

Right. Singer didn't make X3 or Origins, and he considers them to be non-canon, regarding his continuity.

So basically, just assume Origins and X3 never happened.

Fine by me. Why Magneto just didn't drop the Golden Gate Bridge on Alcatraz and forgo the unnecessary end sequence escapes me.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Right. Singer didn't make X3 or Origins, and he considers them to be non-canon, regarding his continuity.

So basically, just assume Origins and X3 never happened.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It contradicted X3 and Origins: Wolverine. I think it was a prequel to Singer's movies only. Ignoring the rubbish that came afterwards.

In the first one Xavier says that Magneto helped him build Cerebro, except in FC we see that Beast built it by himself. Also despite Xavier and Mystique growing up together they never interact in the other movies.

But yeah, Beast being in this one as well as there being no time to have the recruitment scene for Jean does seem to retcon X3. Thankfully.

The recruitment scene wouldn't have worked anyway, since First Class is set in the 1960s. Jean would have had to have been in her mid-50s or so during the previous films.

DP
It contradicted X3 and Origins: Wolverine. I think it was a prequel to Singer's movies only. Ignoring the rubbish that came afterwards.

Also Christian Bale got a lot bigger in Batman Begins than I've given him credit for.

Who else would join the Brotherhood of Mutants if you were a mutant?

In addition to what has been posted above: Magneto is the overall most compelling and multi-dimensional villain from the Marvel and DC rogues gallery that has been introduced to the big screen in the past decade. And the most badass. I say, without fear or regret, that Magneto could take movie!Galactus himself with his ability to manipulate magnetismbadassery.

Eminence
Also Christian Bale got a lot bigger in Batman Begins than I've given him credit for.

Bale? Credit? Moar credit?

I say, without fear or regret, that he is ultimately irrelevant to the success or quality of Nolan's Dark Knight saga, which is either hilarious or horrifying (depending on your perspective) given that he is the titular character and protagonist. Boringggggg

It's true, BaleBatman has always the least interesting character of the Nolan Batman mythos.

... though I'm sure Neph thinks otherwise.

Nah. He's not that great.

Nolan's saga owes all of its success, in my humble opinion, to three people: Neeson, Murphy, and Ledger. Freeman, Oldman, and Caine are all magnificent actors but talk about a waste. Baleman is one of, if not the, most boring superheroes ever.

I've never understood the Batman-hate. He's a good character. Its not like he's the Martian Manhunter or anything.

Baleman isn't great but he's hardly crap. He's a good protagonist.

He's boring, one-dimensional, and unintentionally silly.
The only time he remotely interests me is when he's Bruce instead of Baleman-- we see something else beyond the grumbling trick-or-treater looming in the shadows in every other scene.

Stoic and brooding aren't necessarily character-killers. One of my favorite TV shows was Angel, which featured a hero who was quite similar to Batman. But we saw dimensions beyond that: he was a skilled actor, a closet dork (loved Barry Manilow and the opera), and surprisingly petty and childlike for a 240+ year old vampire.

I see none of these quirks or idiosyncrasies in Baleman. Makes him boring.

Batman deserves hate because he allows his own limitations to prevent him from actually being a hero (i.e. killing the Joker once and for all), and in general just PIS's his way through most of his fights against superpowered beings (i.e. kicking the Hulk in the gut to make him inhale some knockout gas).

Batman is basically the poor man's Punisher.

Personally I hate the idea that you have to kill the villain in order to be the hero. Superman is no less heroic for not killing Luthor. Practically no superheroes kill supervillains.

Well that's just the problem with comics in general. I don't know how you people like 'em at all.

Quality storytelling, characters, action, science fiction, themes, concepts etc etc.

Most superheroes don't kill their villains because of PIS, not because it's apart of their "code" to not kill people. It tends to be a plot point that is conveniently ignored by the writers, so you just have to use your suspension of disbelief.

It's different for Batman, though. Why? Because they actually went and made it apart of his character. Several times in the comics the writers have tried to justify why Batman doesn't kill, and every justification has been stupid.

There's nothing heroic about allowing a villain to kill innocents, just so that you can abide by some personal code of yours, which is what Batman does every time he puts the Joker in prison.

After the end of a particularly brutal story arc between the Joker and Batman, as Batman is taking the Joker to Arkham, the Joker comments in their relationship. He basically says that the cycle between him and Batman will never end; that every time Batman puts him in Arkham, the Joker will kill a bunch of guards, break out, and go on more killing sprees. What's Batman's reply? "I know, and everytime you break out I'll be there to put you back in."

How is that heroic? How is it heroic to know that the Joker is going to kill more innocent prison guards, and yet you won't do a single thing to prevent it? That's not heroic, lol. If Frank was in that situation, he would have said "Hm, you know what, you're right." And he would have put a bullet in the Joker's head, and guess what? Suddenly the Joker will never kill anyone again. That is heroic.