The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

So a religious person doesn't feel happy or special when they get 'blessed' by their deity? Religion DOES make you feel better. Someone who believes they have an omnipotent God backing them up, who will take them to paradise when they die better be damn happy about that, unless he's a manic depressive

So a religious person doesn't feel happy or special when they get 'blessed' by their deity? Religion DOES make you feel better. Someone who believes they have an omnipotent God backing them up, who will take them to paradise when they die better be !@#$%^&* happy about that, unless he's a manic depressive

That wasn't your initial claim. Your claim:

People have faith in God because they want something to look up to. Something to believe in.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
So a religious person doesn't feel happy or special when they get 'blessed' by their deity? Religion DOES make you feel better. Someone who believes they have an omnipotent God backing them up, who will take them to paradise when they die better be damn happy about that, unless he's a manic depressive

Maybe. But then I might not want to exist for ever even if I was in paradise.

Then, there is the whole problem of hell. Would you want to live with somebody who sends people to eternal torment simply because they don't believe in him? And what if a good friend of yours went to hell.

As a previous poster said, Religion is just a tool to appease the masses. I don't personally agree with religion. It can hinder as well as help development within a culture and society. So long as religion stays away from me, I don't mind. Either way, people with a belief tend to be more happy than those who don't, in terms of self-worth, being 'chosen by God for a purpose' and the like.

@Ares: I always find the idea of Hell to be rather stupid. God, the christian one, is meant to be benevolent and forgiving. Why would there need to be a Hell? For intents and purposes God is like a spoiled child. Happy when people give it praise and attention, and should it be annoyed it goes on a tantrum rampage, though on a larger scale.

Are we really doing this again?

Again? 0_o

Shoosh Zam, conversation is always good.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Again? 0_o

Back when we actually cared, we used to have really long arguments about religion. It was fun.

Well, there is nothing like a good religious argument.

Preface: This comes out to 2.01 pages on Word when doublespaced at 12 pt font. It took less than 20 minutes to type. If I could do this rate of output for real life projects I could make bank by writing papers.
Eurgh. Well Neph, you asked for it.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
As a previous poster said, Religion is just a tool to appease the masses. I don't personally agree with religion.

First and foremost, for religion to be "just a tool" requires that someone is using religion toward some goal. Anytime that you have to accuse the majority of history of some kind of conspiracy is a good time to reevaluate your premises. More likely than some devious ploy by cunning agents of the NWO is that the Vatican, for example, is staffed by people who earnestly believe that the statements of the Pope are the best conduit of God's will on Earth. The Caste System in India was perhaps an outgrowth of social stratification, but that doesn't mean that the citizens who actually lived with those rules weren't fully convinced that touching or feeding a pariah would damn them in the next life. For the most part, people act in ways that will fit with their worldview; it is easiest to predict decisions if you don't start with the idea that anyone is going to set out to do evil. (DS, this is why we argued so hard that the 9/11 hijackers didn't believe themselves to be evil. It doesn't excuse their actions, but it helps us to react to the universe more effectively if we can build the best understanding of why things happen.) UA, to say that religion is a tool is deliciously cynical but not particularly insightful (it's been said before many times).

Who is using religion? What is their goal? Compare how the world would look if there were a conspiracy, compared with an outpouring of earnest belief. Which of those scenarios most closely matches the state of affairs we actually have?

Next, faith itself is a method of knowing. That's all. Another example of a method of knowing would be formal scientific inquiry. In each system, questions are approached with a certain methodology. Science has proven to be very effective at describing interactions between particles in the universe. It is not quite as effective at describing the significance of those particles to the consciousnesses observing them. I don't know how much you've read into philosophy of mind, but there is an fun little thought experiment based around the idea of qualia, which is definitely worth a read. Keyword would be "p-zombies." Look it up. 🙂

Anyway, questions of consciousness aside, the types of questions that faith confronts most effectively are those set firmly beyond the bounds of the physical. Questions of life after death are necessarily extra-natural, as are morality and right action (some people use religion as a structure or scaffolding to hold their morality).

Disagreeing with the idea that leaps of faith is necessary is one thing, but disagreeing with their conclusions is another entirely. Once that leap has been made, there really isn't any more room to talk. Given that the article of faith is an axiom of the world in which a theist (for example) lives, many of their conclusions will be logically sound (this is especially true of the fully-fledged formal religions like the "big three" monotheisms). There is literally no arguing with such conclusions because based on what they see in the world, they aren't actually wrong. (Whether they are noticing anything substantial is necessarily a subjective evaluation that you need to make.)

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
It can hinder as well as help development within a culture and society. So long as religion stays away from me, I don't mind.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Either way, people with a belief tend to be more happy than those who don't, in terms of self-worth, being 'chosen by God for a purpose' and the like.

Ahahahaha, this pleases me.

I say we just burn everything with a giant blowtorch.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
[B]As a previous poster said, Religion is just a tool to appease the masses.

I don't personally agree with religion. It can hinder as well as help development within a culture and society. So long as religion stays away from me, I don't mind. Either way, people with a belief tend to be more happy than those who don't, in terms of self-worth, being 'chosen by God for a purpose' and the like.

@Ares: I always find the idea of Hell to be rather stupid. God, the christian one, is meant to be benevolent and forgiving. Why would there need to be a Hell? For intents and purposes God is like a spoiled child. Happy when people give it praise and attention, and should it be annoyed it goes on a tantrum rampage, though on a larger scale.

To be fair, anything thats omnipotent and omniscient is just OPd. XD

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
To be fair, anything thats omnipotent and omniscient is just OPd. XD

Something with unlimited power and knowledge IS overpowered.
So....

Is God, should it exist, a Mary Sue/G. Stu?

Neph, how can you stand talking to backfire? That argument in the vgf is not exactly a high point of reasoned discourse

I need my ME3-ending-pissing-and-moaning fix, and Blax made me feel bad for talking about it here. I like talking about it, this whole debacle has been fascinating.

Indoctrination theory seems legit.

Originally posted by Zampanó
First and foremost, for religion to be "just a tool" requires that someone is using religion toward some goal.